Aston Villa v Hull PMP: A little luck takes us back into Chumps League place
Wednesday, 31 December 08, 02:49 AM · Comments (60)
I like looking at numbers and things that are black and white, sometimes because after all the debate it's the only thing we've got in football that is certain but mostly because after performances like last night, it's nice to have the league position to fall back on.
We were basically very lucky last night and not just because they scored for us but for lots of reasons - mostly that they're game was more about not conceding; it sort of kept the game more about 'could we do anything to create a clear cut scoring opportunity' and we didn't in the first half and only created maybe two in the second.
Still, we can't have any more performances like that and I'm sure Martin O'Neill has players lined up to come in. I mean, January isn't a surprise is it and he's made the mistake of not acting in January, so surely he's not going to bugger it all up. Anyway, to the papers, it's not even January yet!
Richard Rae, The Guardian: "Going into 2009 in the top four of the Premier League is one thing for Aston Villa but they are going to have to offer more invention than they showed last night if they are to stay there. A much changed Hull City went back to basics and for 88 minutes their pressing, disciplined and cautious performance stifled the creativity out of Martin O'Neill's tired-looking side. Not the patience however.
Peter Lansley, The Times: "Aston Villa reclaimed fourth place in the Barclays Premier League last night by maintaining their habit of scoring crucial late goals when Ashley Young, their England winger, dispatched the cross two minutes from time that Kamil Zayatte put through his own goal. But the game finished on a controversial note when Steve Bennett, the referee, awarded Hull City a penalty for handball against Young before changing his mind."
Jon Culley, The Independent: "Hull created more chances while Villa, despite long spells of possession, failed to do any damage.The home side finished the half strongly, forcing Curtis Davies into a clearing header that flashed perilously close to his own goal and Friedel into another handling error."
Janine Self, The Sun: "Villa’s honest boss will not need telling his team are back in the Champions League placings thanks to a huge stroke of fortune."
Henry Winter, The Telegraph: "The old year certainly refused to go out quietly. The last minute of the last game of 2008 produced fireworks here last night, all of them fittingly launched by Ashley Young, the sparkling individual talent who has most lit up the season so far."
Player Ratings
I'm getting into the habit of picking these from other people, because I seem to get into trouble when I give James Milner five. So, today the ratings and the comments are provided by Hitzlsperger.
Brad Friedel: 6 - had little to do but look a bit suspect a couple of times
Nigel Reo Coker: 6 - not a proper fullback but does his best
Curtis Davies: 7 - had a pretty solid game
Zat Knight: 7 - did good but I'd still feel better with Laursen back
Luke Young: 7 as Davies, solid display
Gareth Barry: 4 - never got into the game and gave possession away at ever opportunity
Stiliyan Petrov: 8 - my man of the match, played very well in an underrated position just in from of the back four
Steve Sidwell: 4 - very poor, completely anonymous
Ashley Young: 7 Hull defended him out of the game but did have some flashes of brilliance
James Milner: 6 - ran his heart out for the team but still not managing a descent cross
Gabby Agbonlahor: 7 - played as well as he could tonight, never got the killer cross to get in on goal
Final Analysis
I don't agree with all the scores from Hitzlsperger above but they're his scores. For me, if Barry and Sidwell are a four so is James Milner. You can't give someone two extra points for running - it's his bloody job. Still, we won, which if looking at this in black and white, is all that matters.
The football was decent. We had loads of possession but we only had two or three shots on target in 90 minutes - it's simply not good enough and has been a problem on and off all season. I'm sure however that Martin O'Neill will fix very early on in January.
Finally, fourth place at the end of 2008 is perfect, could we really have asked for anything else considering the players we have?
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60 Comments · Add yours
I won't bother pointing out the abject lack of logic to the ratings above.
I was delighted with our performance last night, I have never seen Villa play with such determination and grit. Even the dissent that everyone hates in the top teams was there. No doubt about it they CARED. That was a proper football match and most teams would have rolled over to a team that set about things the way Hull did.
Damian "you can't give someone two extra points for running .." - I guess you never heard of Des Bremner? The problem last night was we had a lightweight attack that was bullied by Hull's big guys. Oh yeah - Defoe would have solved that!
A little harsh on Mr Barry with that scoring, don't forget he was still probably tired from the drive back from Southport ! Seriously though boys and girls what's the matter with Sidwell ? I know he has a good shot on him, but in all honesty he hasn't had a decent game since he arrived, time to give Gardner a run, he deserves a chance in his proper position.
Remember it ain't how you play the game, it's whether you win or lose.
As much as I admire nice football, if more gritty performances are needed from the current crop of players to encourage some better ones in, then so be it.
Champions League football is far more important than a great passing and moving performance at the moment and yesterday's performance worked towards this goal.
Two or three players in January, victory over the Baggies who can't play way next in the league and the dream continues.
I entirely agree that HULL came in to this game desperate not to concede. They were the more dogged team, but rarely troubled our goal save for FRIEDEL's girl-like atempts to catch a ball.
Ratings seem pretty fair. Once again you've had a dig at MILNER though, suggesting that if SIDWELL and BARRY got 4, then so should he as 'tracking back is his job.' I agree, and he did his job more effectively than BARRY and SIDWELL which is why their ratings are not as high.
We were tactically inept as we don't have the personnel to change the complexion of a game. I would have loved to have seen JC 'mixing it up' with their bullies. GARDNER should have come on earlier as SIDWELL was almost non existent.
Anyway, I know what it briefly feels like to be a LIVERPOOL supporter, who have basically won games like this for the past 40yrs. I hope this doesn't happen too often, and we resume the new year by beating teams on merit.
Reply to AVMark:
You could have has Messi and Ronaldo up front last night and they both would also have been bullied out of it because all they had to work with were big long missiles from the back line all night long. The reason was because our midfield was not for the first time away from home well beaten. Sidwell just doesn't do enough in there to warrent his place IMO.
AK - sometimes the midfield is so crowded that you need a long option. A long option works in two ways - ball over top and ball to target man. Last night the former option was not available because Hull played deep. Therefore we needed a target man. Someone with a physical presence. Thats why we played so much sideways stuff - the options were not there.
Arsenal have Adebayor, Chelsea Drogba, Liverpool Torres, Man U Berbatov. Even the best teams need a guy who can play with his back to the defence and give the midfield a chance to support.
Reply to AVMark:
Mark you very rarely see the big 4 play constant long hopeless balls againest any team. Our midfield just doesn't seem to able to get on the ball and keep possession for even a few mins. We need to able to change the way we are playing if plan a isn't working like last night. We don't have anyone who is confident enough to go back to our back line and take the ball and start the play. We seriously need a playmaker. I do agree with you that we really miss JC and also Laursen as last night who was there to win any free kicks or corners put into the box?
Its great that we're up to 4th, even more so considering that in the past month we haven't really played very well except in games against Arsenal (e.g. West Ham, Everton, Hull where we have won 3 we could of easily lost). I'm hoping that we're going through our bad patch but doing what Liverpool did at the start of the season and winning.
I know he gets a lot of stick on these boards, but does anybody think we're missing Reo Cocker back in the middle? He an Petrov were amazing together at beginning of season. I'd like to see Sidwell dropped and Reo Cocker returned to the middle, with Shorey at left back replaced by Bouma when he's fit.
Also, without Carew, we do look like we lack a plan B when coming up against resiliant teams like last night.
These players are to come back and with a few additions in Jan, i think we are positioned pretty brilliantly considering what really has been a difficult and poor month performance wise.
ak-27,
Totally agree with need for creative player to maintain possession. Full backs not capable of over-lapping down the wings, so we become too predictable. Roll on Jan.
AVMark - "I won't bother pointing out the abject lack of logic to the ratings above"
I wish you would because I can't see the logic to that statement.
Damian - "I seem to get into trouble when I give James Milner five", " For me, if Barry and Sidwell are a four so is James Milner". Good idea people have a go at you for giving Milner 5, so give him 4, that will win them round
At the end of the day we won, we kept a clean sheet, we scored from an excellent Young cross (even if it was an own goal)and we are back up to fourth. All this without Laursen, Carew, Cuellar and Bouma.
Why is everyone so down?
Reply to marcus:
Spot On.Totally agree.Would like to see Luke Young and Milner play together on the right with Shorey supporting Young on the left.Does anybody know how Bouma is doing!
Reply to HectorFullone:
LMAO, class
Reply to AVMark:
A player like John Carew maybe?
im sorry but i think barry deserves more than a 4! he put himself about loads, and it was him that cleverly instead of rushing over to the referee, went over to the linesmen to make sure the ref and him spoke!
Reply to theprimeminister:
I'm over 30, what does LMAO mean?
AK we had tons of possession last night in fact I suspect in the first half it was the most we have had all season so I don't understand your point. We kept the ball well and didn't have anywhere to pass to up front.
KeefVilla - Carew? Precisely.
As regards the ratings - well forget the actual marks the main point is about comparison isn't it? Friedel last night had a stinker. He din't have much to do but what he was given to do he screwed up. The incident with Barmby was no way a foul. Zat Knight makes a mistake costing us a goal and gets crucified. Where's the logic there?
We make excuses for some players e.g. NRC not a full back but did his best, Gabby not given service but did his best etc. but not for others. Let me tell you this. Last night the game was won and lost in the middle of the park. Our defence had it easy, they had one donkey to contend with between them. Gabby and Ashley didn't like it up em and were largely peripheral. Gabby in particular spent all night moaning and diving. It was a tough game.
Where am I going here? The game WAS won in the middle. Barry, Sidwell, Petrov and Milner deserve great credit. Noone looked a star fair enough but there wasn't the space nor time. To underestimate the contribution of the midfield last night is to totally miscomprehend the nature of football. If you want to give crass generalisations here is a synopsis: -
Goalkeeper - Crap
Defence - to concede against such a lightweight attack would have been criminal
Midfield - won the game
Attack - didn't exist.
Petrov impressed me too. For what i saw, I woke up at 12:30pm today and missed the first half lol. But as for the second half he played well. I saw him drive forward a few times around a few Hull players, but only to find the absence of barry or siddy looking for the ball... or anyone for that matter. You could see his frustration in that a few times.
Reply to HectorFullone:
I went away to arsenal and Sidwell was superb.
Agree that he has not set these standards every week but we have to give these new players a bit of time to settle, look at Petrov he was terriable for 2 years but now i would say he is our most important central midfielder (look at the games he was missing Newcastle Middlesborough).
Reply to Villa_1_2_3:
Sorry mate dont agree went last night and Barry was shite.
I'm not a Barry knocker and rate him but last night he had a bad game.
Reply to ak_27:
Totaly agree that a playmaker is what we need , someone who can spot a pass or thred a decicive through ball . I thought that player was Barry , but not anymore. An inteligent european is what we need .
Hi all have just seen the replay of the penalty farce last night and when Mr Bennett went over to the linesman it looks to me that the linesman was talking to someone else on his ear peace do you think that the fourth official told them it hit the bar? has anyone else noticed this?
Reply to Zidave:
Went last night and i agree with you Petrov was our best player by a mile.
The Turk Gokan Inlhar would be good , very creative and still strong defencivly. UTV !
I agree with all those have rated Petrov highly. Hull's negative 'non footballing' approach was always going to make it difficult, but \petrov was always looking to push the ball forwards rather than sideways or backwards. I'd have liked to see us press them harder in midfield and to show the same sort of passion that they did against Arsenal, but I guess you can't expect that every week? And...does anyone know what has gone on in the past between Milner and Damian? Did he go out with Damian's sister or something. I've finally realised that there has to be some well grounded personal animosity between the two...it's the only explanation!
I stick by the score I gave Milner it may be a little generous but I thought he was a bigger asset to the team than either Sidwell or Barry were last night.
Reply to bow77:
i saw that as well....if thats true then the 4th official shud get a rating of 10 from me
Reply to robbo:
Agree maybe it was not his sister, maybe he has done his missus.
Reply to AVMark:
I must be missing something becuase I thought only Petrov did well from the midfield. Barry spent half the game on his arse whereas Sidwell hardly touched the ball. I put this down to conditions and crowded midfield/ off night but though Petrov stood out
But 3 points........and I for 1 am happpy going into 09 in a Champs League spot which might attract some undecided targets
AVmark. Reading your post, i was with you....i was with you...i was with you, then i got half way down and reliased I was completely misunderstanding the post and was completely against you!
The midfield lost the battle last night. Second to everything, lost possession within a few touches, pass success shocking, bullied in every sense of the word.
I'll tell you who won the game. Ashley Young. We played a chapionship game of football last night but unfortunately for hull we had a touch of world class, and when you have that it only takes a minute. That was the difference.
Fact! Well obviously not - just my opinion but I just wanted to say it. Fact!
I don't care I just love Villa
StickAV if the midfield lost the battle last night how did we have more possession than them in a game with 2 4-5-1 formations? We had much more possession last night than in many games this year, nearly as much as we did in thrashing Bolton and Wigan. I'm not saying that Barry and Sidwell and Milner played at their best. Far from it. I am acknowledging however that a) the opposition existed (something some fans seem to have a problem grasping) and b) that they fought to the end. Refused to lie down. Covered every blade of grass. That's where it all starts. I note that one national daily had Sidwell as MOM - I wouldn't go that far but I can see the point.
I can't help feeling that Damian's little issues are ruling other people's comments. It's got to the point where I'm half expecting MON to come out and say that Milner is working his socks off and playing a vital role for the team and that Damian is wrong.
Hang on... he already has. Damian is starting to rule the world.
Sidwell looks like that boy from Trainspotting that craps in the bed, no?
1. taglor Wrote: | 11.48GMT | Dec 31, 2008
I don't care I just love Villa
Reply Quality shout!
The fact is that it was a driech freezing cold dark night in HULL. They did their homework on us, and I honestly believe some of our players were shy in the tackle owing to our depleted squad.
well said old boy,also if you saw the interview with phil brown after,he was asked about nearly getting a point from the game,his reply was he would have been more pleased with a clean sheet,that tells you everything about the way hull played last night
Reply to Ipbopmalik:
you all say we cant create when a team puts everybody behind the ball,we are not the only ones you know (manure stoke 1-0,manure boro 1-0 arse pompey 1-0)so it puts our result last night into perspective imo
We ruled possesion in the defensive area. Arse struggle against us because they play an attacking high line. They press us high up the field. We can have the ball for 2% of the time like that, break and score 4 goals.
Hull had it spot on, The way to play villa is to let us have the ball in our own half. Don't press us. Sit back, play a depp line. This stops our quick players running off the last man and getting in behind. Where ALL our goals come from.
Hull realised we are not a passing squad. They knew that the defense and midfield were scrappers, that they could match villa in the air for long balls. So they simply played good tactics. Villa are not a passing team we are direct. Hull combatted that brilliantly.
Hull deserved to win, based on tactics, based on effort, based on challenges won, second balls retrieved, arial threat and even PASSING.
We won because we had ashley young. That's for me the game in a nutshell, and I have to say I really like Phil Brown. Top manager. I fear more teams will watch that game and deploy similar tactics. If they do we are screwed. Fact!
ps. I am a sheep, i support the boys, were in a great position etc etc etc. Doensn;t mean I cannot critisise aspects of the way we play.
Reply to talusmanvillafan:
The difference is Man Utd, Arsenal created far more chances and missed them. We created one chance in the entire 90mins last night(againest a team that has recently conceeded 9 goals in 2 games). We required luck last night to win which is all good but long term you have to rely on performances and not luck to get your points or we won't be in 4th spot come May.
lucky to get the goal
i don't think many people are giving hull enough credit
they defended brilliantly and it was obvious that villa didn't want to commit too much going forward, they had their game plan which ultimately worked so o'neil should be given credit for that
hull's tactics contributed greatly to the game's poor quality, they palyed as if they were the away team, dropping back as soon as they conceded possession. villa could have possibly taken advantage a bit more earlier rather than just starting to play with 15 minutes to go
knight did sufficiently well but no way is he a first team player
sidwell was poor enough, petrov was decent as was barry
reo did his job but is not very good going forward
milner will come good
Damo, you need to see a doctor, I don’t have a medical degree but I can offer an informed layman’s diagnosis. I believe you have an inherited neuropsychiatric disorder characterised by repetitive and stereotyped motor tics more commonly known, as I mentioned last night, as Tourette’s Syndrome. Help is available and the condition ameliorates as you get older.
If it makes you feel any better I think Arsène Wenger has it too. The constant repetition of “We can still win the league” has become an terrible embarrassment to the gooners. Even the press, steeped in their own insanity, shuffle their feet and look at the floor as the tic asserts itself. But he can’t let go; his career is haunted by his great failure: the Champion’s League Cup. His withered face betrays the vacancy in his mind and his will to resist the tic decays with his ambition. But hey - he’s French, so who gives a fuck?
You, Damo, on the other hand, are dear to us. This is the only blog in town and we love you for it.
So you have to get well. Whatever it takes, mate. Booze, women – perhaps you should let your mind dwell on that silly page 3 slut you were going to leave your Mrs for – crossword puzzles; your G.P. will know. Look on James Milner as most of us here do: a great addition to the squad who cost us a tenner. Breathe deep and repeat to yourself – ‘After a generation of abysmal indifference, Aston Villa are poised for greatness.’ This mantra has more than one benefit:
a) It’s therapeutic.
b) It’s true.
Think of what the future holds. Go down to Sparkbrook, have a vindaloo, come home, rip your shirt off, beat your chest and shag the Sheila till she begs for mercy. Feel like a bloke again.
absolute fuckin classic post
soz,talking about churchil
StickyAV it's amazing how Hull did all that and Friedel didn't have a shot to save! They battled and battled? Well it was not much of a battle for them by the sound of it because our midfield were so shit!
sometimes you have to be patient and wait for the right opening to come,we cant be brill every game.how many of you watching just knew that a goal would come late in the game,friedel still making too many mistakes but getting away with it,reo should be back in the centre instead of sidwell who just chases the game just like petrov when he first came(but is now our best midfield player)milner in my opinion is still a waste of money and a quality foreign midfielder with a brain who can see the magic pass,finally drogba anyone?HAPPY NEW YEAR
Churchil, you are my new hero.
Reply to AVMark:
yes we had alot of possesion but most of it was with the back 4. agreed hull had 11 men behind the ball. but to say the game was won in mid field well sorry but there was no midfield . all the fans around me said the same thing get the ball down thats were we needed to play it. at one stage i thought i was at a volley ball game ps lost me balls coming home on the bike IF found pleas return
AK27. Yes Mun U and Arsenal did create more chances against Hull than we did, but then Hull played differently against them. Up to now Hull have shown real ambition and gone out to win games. Phil Brown is starting to feel the pressure and adopted a new team tactic against us last night. Hull are a decent side with a good manager and some good players. It's not surprising that when they decide to shut up shop they are able to do it pretty well. The fact that they felt the need to play like this aginst us shows how far we've come. The other fact is...that in spite of it all...we WON.
Reply to AVMark:
Now that's not very nice saying friedel didn't have a shot to save, he tried as best he could. He was lucky to to have more, but Hull lack an attacking presence.
Our midfield are better Mark. And when you play against better oposition you have to work harder. Our midfield should outplay hulls, every day of the week. It's riddled with internationals.
It's not the first time that a linesman has been seen listening to some mystery third party in his earpiece. Are officials starting to unofficially use video evidence? I hope so!
Churchil - Pure genius mate!
What do you recommend for Bill Howell's incessant inconsequential gibberish that he spaffs every week?
Robbo, that is a great post.
Hull have been hailed for playing attacking football against allcomers, especially not shutting up shop against the big boys.
Phil Brown was sick of looking like a tosser and spent the whole week working out a way to avoid letting in a goal against us. To be fair he tried really hard (as did his players) and it nearly worked, BUT IT DIDN'T. THEY FAILED, WE WERE SUCCESSFUL.
Put the two games together, Arse and Hull. Same formation in both, same team. Pick faults based on the 180 minutes. There's not many is there?
I like this blog, but Damian, why are you always slating Milner????? It gets a little repetitive and tedious after a while. We know you don't like him which is a fair opinion considering how much he cost but do you have to go on about it in every post????????????????
Reply to churchil:
Churchill, we are not worthy!
would people please stop the moaning!?! we won! it might have been a terrible performance yes, but the main thing is we got the three points and thats all that matters come the end of the season.
Every team has a day where they perform terrible...... with that being our 3rd match in ten days im not suprised it came yesterday - in a game where Hull stopped us using all our usual tactics.
Cmon lads were in 4th place going into the new year, have a bit of bloody optimism!
UTV
Petrov deserves a bit more credit for his performance last night. I personally thought he played very well in a poor game. He even ventured forward a few times which is rare for him. Sidwell was very quiet and there was no real spark from anyone, until Ashley's lovely little run at the end.
But in saying that, it was great to see the team's 'never say die' attitude and the belief that we can score at any time.
Hope the great work continues in 2009.
Happy new year everyone.
How did Friedel score the same as Coker?
Coker did his job well.
Friedel had to catch 2 balls and dropped them both.
I, for one, am starting to believe.
Great result last night. As others have said, grinding it out IS all that matters. Chelsea and Liverpool have been doing it for years.
As for Milner - people need to look at the bigger picture. The kid has been an sbsolute credit to the club since he joined us. He's freed up / taken the pressure of Ashley by offering an alternate option on the other flank. He works harder than anyone I've seen at the club since Dean Saunders.
As an aside, how many have we lost with Milner in the starting lineup? Not many I'd say. One? Two? The kid is clearly doing something right, and has improved the balance of the team no end.
Some of the papers have said that spurs are sniffing around NRC, if so then why dose'nt MON offer him in part/ex for Darren Bent, i think NRC and 4 to 6 million would do. UP THE VILLA
Yeah I said in the Forum that Milner is like Ashley Giles was in the Ashes winning cricket team. He brings balance without really being able to see clearly what he does.
3 points-thanks Hull
Bring on gillingham and WBA
Reply to runner:
we paid 8 1/2 million for reocoker and you think we should add another 6 to bring in a spurs substitute, so 14 million for bent get real.