Brian Howard and how much to move up to the next level?

im not going to bother cos ive given up!
expect no more than 20 million net spend in the summer, and i would be surprised!!

Once again Damian, you're not far wrong.
It's all about making 'the next step' and the next step is top 4 Champions league footy.

But £50m will suffice this closed season as i'm buying into the '5 year plan!'

The major problem we have is not being able to attract top names because of not offering European football and no ammount of money will solve that.

But i'm an optimist and think its pretty good at the mo....

Results lately have gone downhill but we were going to have a patch sometime during the season it just happens to be now.

If it means spending £15m on a South American superstat the so be it but if it means picking up a bargain from the Champioship or lower then i'm all for that also.

Quality and quantity this summer
;D

I think mon is going to surprise a few people this season and reckon hes gonna spend. Last season he used to clear the deadwood this season he is gonna re build. Its gonna take a while for this team to become a solid competitor. Look how long it took ferguson i think it was over 5 seasons before they started challenging. I know its hard but we all just got to have faith both in mon and randy. Look at the way our take over is compared to other clubs i think we are lucky. We dont just want someone playing with it like its their new toy or bickering and argueing with each other and putting off the players , manager and the fans.
I like the sound of this howard he has done very well against top oposition wether he can do it week in week out is another question but look at players like tim cahill, crouch (but i hope he dont come back), walcott, bale all came from the championship and there are also others who havent been picked from there yet.

Sorry Damain I have to disagree with you on this one.

I think the next step for us is consolidation of a regular 5th / 6th league finish and European football via the EUFA Cup for the next 2 seasons, before going for Champions League in 2010/11, that backs into a 5 year plan, we seem to want the 5 year plan to produce in 2/3 years, typical client mentality :-)

Agreed, an injection of cash is needed this summer, and the 10 player count is probably right, but knowing MON we'll be picking up 6-7 cheap players (e.g. sub £3m) with 'potential' a couple of proven players (e.g. £10m) and maybe 1 class player (e.g. £15 - 20m), even that though works out at near enough £50m, but would allow us to take the 'next step'.

Slowly slowly catch the monkey, or in our case Premier and Champions League :-)

DLS, would we really be moving forward with those additions though and that amount, when you factor in the likes of Newcastle, Spurs, Everton and possibly others will be spending it also.

I'll still hope for Champions League next season regardless of whet we spend and I'm not saying it's a sure thing if you spend £100mn. but it would most definitely taking a proper step in the right direction. Your £50mn. would, for me anyway, would mean we're no better off than we are right now, when everyone else has moved a little forward too.

There comes a time when rather than running with the pack we've got to go out on our own. I don't think they'll be many more chances after this one - like you say, client mentality.

Agree with both of you DLS and d_j_t_bass. Don't forget and Joleon Lescott and Micheal Dawson, all players picked up from lower division teams. Even our very own Curtis Davies. There are rich pickings to be made from the lower leagues but I think we do need to get a 'bums on seats', crowd exciter as well this summer.

carvillan

i'm not having a pop at you here but i'm just trying to get over the point that neither of those players are playing champions league football - how many players playing for man utd, arsenal, liverpool or chelsea were playing lower league football last season or the season before?

if the club are going to get us all excited about champions league football then surely we've got a right to higher our expectations? if as customers/supporters we accept mediocrity and bums on seats - then we cant really complain when we finish 8th

i'm not saying we shouldn't, i'm just saying, we should start to expect more ..

anyway. it's still £100mn. for me, for us to move forward

Could'nt agree with you more Damien. We need to wake up and relise that there are also 6 other clubs (you missed out on Man City, Pompy and West Ham)that are in the same position as us and they will not hessitate to spend. We also need to wake up and realise that to get good players in then you have to pay the wages. I don't know if we have a wage structure in place at the moment but the fact that we didn't get Defoe and especially Diarra would indicate that we are not willing to pay the big wages. If this is the case we need to kop ourselves on very quickly and get with the times. Personally i think we need to spend at least 60m to 75m this summer. This might sound mad but seeing as we spent f all this year that money should be there.

To be honest I think spending the sort of cash you suggest would go against MON's principles!

He is a cracking manager no doubt and I'm thrilled we have him...but, I'm not sure he has yet made the mental adjustment to the reality of the modern transfer market following his time away from the game.

Even if he had, I don't think Randy would be looking to spend that kind of money. 20 maybe even 30 million I could just about imagine but as for 50 ? I don't think it's there.

I agree that at least £100m is required to get us to a level where we can compete with the big boys but this should be over a period of seasons. There is no way that we, or anyone else for that matter, will spend that much in one transfer window. IMO it is definately not worth the risk to secure champions league football, the club cannot afford it and Randy cannot afford it. We do not have an owner with the funds available to do an 'Abramovich' so were going to have to accept slow and steady progress, which tbh honest i'm more than happy with.

Damian, I think this is the first season we can actually say that we've caught up with the pack, and to run with them for a season or two would be a good thing in my opinion before we try to break free of the chasing pack (peleton) to chase after the leaders.

We need to build on solid foundations, and go after the leading teams with confidence. If we spend £100m and fail to break in to top 4 and Champions League - then what? Massive risk, and one that can be mitigated by a more rational and strategic approach.

This of course is more of a business like approach to the game and likely the one being proposed by Randy and the board.

Putting my heart on my sleeve, yes, lets spend £100-150m on top class players and go for it. What's the worse that could happen?

It is heart on sleeve time for me though .. the rumours are that Spurs want 7 players next season circa £65mn. - if they do that with and along with there existing squad, you'd fancy they'd be competing for Champions League - then its making the prospect more difficult for us.

Also, the club can afford it if we follow the approach already adopted by Randy Lerner - the club have a net worth of nearly £70mn. every bank in the country would lend us £50mn. on the back of that and if Randy puts in the other half .. much like how he bought Aston Villa.

Yes, there is a risk, but isn't that the point of having a top class manager? It's not another Leeds with David O'Leary - it's Martin O'Neill.

But there is a risk - as there is with everything. But the other clubs are taking it and surviving.

As for the Abramovich statement, I don't want that either, but I'm not asking for it, I'm asking for us to do a Spurs, Man City or Newcastle. Surely thats not too much to ask for?

I think 50m will only keep us were we are at the moment all the teams around us will be spending at least that and the top 4 even more and they all have more players to pick from I agree at least 100m and maybe more just for a chance of champions league

£65M? £100M? Never going to happen that. Anyone who thinks it will is deluding themselves and in for a life of serious disappointment.

Has any team, anywhere in the world, EVER spent that much during a transfer window? To even be seen to be doing anything remotely approaching that as the world is on the brink of recession is absolutely crazy.

Our aim for next season should be, as previously mentioned, consolidation into a regular top 6 finish (and a decent cup run). We are still a long, long way from top 4. I don't dispute that £100M would get us there. Hell, if we couldn't get CL for £100M then any manager would need shooting.

Im sorry DLS but you talk about building on a solid foundation but i don't see that foundation. The foundation of any team is its defense and if you ask me we have our worst defense for as long as i can remember. We need to buy a GK, 2 FB's (Bouma needs to be replaced due to his brutal passing), and prob 2 new centre backs (Davies will prob not play until late Oct and Knight is a shocking back up). Thats 5 players straight away just and we have'nt even touched the midfield or strikers.

Hi Guys. Well ive been thinking about this all morning in fact for the last few weeks as to what we need. Damien I think your estimation at ten new player's.This isn't far off but still 5 of them will only be replacing players who are more than likely on there way out so you would also have to take into consideration squad player's and I put this at an additional 3 at a minimum. I know it seems alot and as everyone knows it takes time for players to settle so if MON can bring in at least 7 over the summer and then finish it off in January as some player's wont go anywhere with Euro2008 on.The 100million value to take the next step is spot on,50million isn't enough for us as I can see Spurs,Newcastle and Everton spending Big this summer.I hope it can be done I feel its very achievable and also believe that there are player's who are available and would Join us that can take us that next step and . The positions needed are obvious and have been mentioned a million times already so I wont bother listing tham. I know this comes up all the time to but given 100million I would like to know who other supporters would splash the cash on I have a few idea's and ill put them on a later post if required.

Cheers UTV

I'm trying to be optimistic, and to be fair I think we have done pretty well considering the amount of money that has been spent, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we are actually in profit on transfers over the past 2 years!!
I'm hoping that MON has been running lean, building a framework and making sure that the players we have are playing well and getting some sort of a consistent backbone and not bringing in to many new overated, overpriced players as to cloud this process.
I like to think he is building a skeleton, a skeleton that can do well in the premier league, once he has that, he his going to buy some quality meat to stick to the bones of the skeleton to create a being that can crack the top 4. A weird analogy, I know, but then, I am a bit weird. Ask the missus ;D
On the other hand I could be wrong and we could be in for another frustrating summer.

:o

regardless of how much money needs to be spent

WHOM DO WE SPEND IT ON!

id take a go at trying to prize darren flecher louis saha and wes brown from united.. never been a fan of his but take a gamble on fat franky lampard its only four players but four who have prem experience are relativlky young and can fit straight into our team who would help us improve.....

i also think that if petrov was an attacking mid feilder b4 but cant find his feet in middlew of prem we should give him ago upfront.....(anyone agree/disagree?)

then we should be looking to fill the team with young potential..

id also like to see stuart taylor be given the number one jursey and buy a young keeper as back up to him.

The mistake you seem to make here is presuming money and big name players gets you results. That is not the case, there are plenty of clubs who spent big last summer and won't get near the points we did. I think Arsenal should be our model rather than Chelsea, despite the billionaire owner. We have a manager like Arsenal who counts on getting the best out of what he's got, Arsenal never spend big but get quality youngsters and support players.

Its frustrating I know as I would like to pick up the paper in the morning and read of another big money signing by Villa, but it's probably the best course of action to take, better to have a tight knit squad than a bunch of discordant prima donnas.

That said we have got the smallest squad in the premiership so we do need to bring in a few players but it is never how much you spend that will determine where you finish in the coming season.

Damian - I'm afraid I don't agree with the comments about Man City, Newcastle or Spurs. Spending big money on players does not equate with immediate progression, there are other factors involved. Look at Man City, bought some class but more importantly installed a clever manager. Where will it get them this year or next though - maybe top 6? Look at Spurs, a big spending club that sacked a good manager and on paper should be a regular top 6 team. As for Newcastle, well I'm not even going to comment there, they are the perennial under-achievers I'm afraid. I think DLS assessment is spot on, spend max £50m on 7-8 players;
£10-15m on defence (e.g. Nelson, Riise, Guzan)
£10-15m strikers (e.g. Doyle, Van der Vaart, Koevermans)
£10-15m midfield (e.g. Tugay, Fletcher, Noble)

These are not specific targets but are in the ilk of player I'd expect we could attract.

@AK28 - I don't disagree that our defence is probably the weakest it has been for many a year, but the point I was trying to make was more around financial and core team stability rather than specific current team issues.

-------

I'm going to sound all poncy now, but a strategic development plan is a moving target and will need to be adjusted on a monthly/quartlerly/annual basis. More often than not a number of tactical moves will culminate in an overall strategy and I belive we can see this happening at VP.

We've cleaned out a lot of 'dead wood' and can be proud to say we have a very good if small core squad all willing to play for the club.

We've brought in young talent with potential as well as old experienced heads to steady the boat.

We had 5 players named in the England squad for the first time in I don't know how long.

Improvements to the training ground, holte hotel, club image, sponsorship, proposed VP development plans.

I fervently believe that we are heading in the right direction, and that the 5 year plan might become a 7 year plan, but frankly I don't care.

We are Villa, we are improving and we play great football.

UTV

Surely these comments should have been placed 12 months ago? why are we talking about this like it's something that has just cropped up?

Oh i think we need to strengthen the squad??????? duhr !! we knew that last summer and last january.

I think someone needs to tell MON and Randy to get their arses in gear and do something about quick, before the likes of Spurs, Chelsea, Manure, Arsenal and i believe Portsmouth who will all be in Europe next term get all the rich pickings again. I mean what player is going to turn down European football for a club that keeps promising we will get it right and we are still on track??

up the Villa

please please give me something to hope for.

God Olof that post has really depressed me as I think it might be very close to what we will see. Spot on from you Damian couldn't agree more. I'm amazed how many Villa fans think snapping up a few "quality" championship players will help our cause. To put it in perspective, one of the best players in the championship is J Greening at WBA. Would he help us move on? I think not! We have to pay the money and sign some big hitters, and they are out there but we need to be a bit more inventive. As I said recently Bentley would be a good start. How about trying to get Bendtner from Arsenal or Ferraira from Chelsea for right back. There are dozens of top players playing reserve team football for top clubs around Europe who I'm sure we could tempt if they really believed in AVFC, we've just got to show we mean business.

i agree that doin a chelsea wont get u success, true they won the league a few time, but wit that amount of money, they shud clean up every season, but they havent. and dont even get me started on the cl, they shuda won that by now too.
we obv need players on the basis that we havent coped wit the number of games this season. wot worries me about this team is that we went out early in the fa cup, didnt do much in the carlin cup and havent even had to consider european games in our fixture list. it was said a while ago that the games we had left to play equated to 1 per week. that shud hav been a positive thing as the squad shud hav been able to cope. but we havent and form and results hav nosedived. so that indicates the squad needs to be strengthened further.

i think we have a fantastic spine for the team.I dont think weve played poorly in the last few games compared to the whole season i just think weve not done what we have been fantastic at all season.Pace, Power and deadly from set pieces...we were terrible at liverpool but we could of won that game because we were deadly from set pieces.We should of beat arsenal because we used our pace.. and we destroyed newcastle because we used our power.in my opinion we need 1 creative midfielder....10m , one right back 5m ,one flamboyant forward 10m , 1 attacking midfielder 5m , one centre back 5m ,and a goalkeeper 5m


altogether total of 40m plus 10m for squad players...jimmy bullard may be a good bargain. so 50m and with MON's tutoring
i think that would be enough if spent correctly.

Something that has not been brought up is, we have an American owner, America is in the middle of a masssive wobble economy wise brought on by a credit problem. This problem put simply is that banks and lending institutions have lent to much money to companys and people that cannot pay it back and an waful lot of debt cannot be repaid. Our owner owns a credit card company, its main business is credit. On top of this the Dollar is as weak as a kitten at the mo 1.98 dollars to buy 1 gbp. We may expect 50 million this summer but Id would be suprised, I would love to see some world class players but I think 4 5millions will be the moves.

We need to spend big. £100 million to break the top four.
Will it happen? I very much doubt so.

we wont get any decent players cause we wont pay the wages. thats why oneil will contnue to look for championship players etc that he can pay less in wages.
did you al see the list of the top 150 paid footballers published this week. Not one villa player in there. Evrton and had 5 players, spurs 4, Middlesborough - 4, pompey 5 (including campbell on 100k a week) and west ham 6 (including get this Carlton Cole yes carlton cole on more than any villa player).
Unless we start paying these players what they can earn elsewhere we wont sign anyone any good and players such as Young could well be off as they can earn double what they do at villa elsewhere!!!

I'm pretty much with DLS on this one, in terms of our ambitions for next season. But, I agree with Damian to an extent with the number of players needed.

I think we need 8-9 quality players at an average cost of £10m each to get us to compete with Everton, so I guess that's £80-90m. I'd say that should be spread across the summer and during next January. But, I'm sure MON will get us a few bargains and maybe a freebie or two.

I'm not really bothered about how much he spends, as long as we have the quality and the numbers to be successful. Nor do I care how much Newcastle, Spurs etc spend. Newcastle made loads of signings last summer and still turned out to be crap. Everyone was jealous of Man City and West Ham's signings and they're nothing special either.

It should also be said that even though there's a chance we'll make 4th spot next season, it probably won't happen even if we do make loads of decent signings. Progress for us would be 5th/6th in the league, a decent run in both cups and progress in the UEFA cup, assuming we qualify for the Intertoto. That would mean playing 50% more games and still maintaining a decent league challenge.

What's with all this needing to spend £100M to break into the top 4? Why do we need to be top 4 next season? Since when were we last even close to this. Get a life, be realistic.

MON took us on in 17th. Got us to 11th in season 1, and we look to be finishing between 6th and 9th this season. That is progression, and whilst the squad needs bolstering in a big way, you really are demonstrating a complete lack of pragmatism by writing articles like this.

Just get 3 or 4 more quality players (I mean 1st team players) in the transfer window and I'll be quite happy.

in terms of player quality across the squad we may well be ~100 million behind the top 4. is it smart to spend that in one window and expect to suddenly be at the same level?? it's just that simple, you spend the money and hey presto!! top four!!! lmao :D :D

as far as sunderland goes... where are they going to be finding all this money on top of what they've already spent?? does anyone think they can spend big and suddenly crack the top of the table and maintain that long term?? can you say leeds?!?! ;)

When you look at the number of teams we're competing with, and worrying about being outspent by, you'll quickly see there aren't enough players to go round, not of the sort everyone's pining for, unless we're all playing musical chairs. And yes, Randy could go borrowing £50m, but it all has to be paid back, and then wages are an additional expense on top of that, which would be considerable in terms of short-term operating expenses. (I don't know how it works, but if a player is said to be on £50k a week, is that for 52 weeks? Would be a little more sensible to say a player is on contract for wages of £2.6m a year, for example.) But anyway, the point is that if you spend £100m, you're out that, then you're out the wages. So, tickets, merchandising, TV revenue and the like have to offset that. The question is then whether you're running even, at a loss, or at a profit...Chelsea, as I understand it, run at a considerable loss. MON and RL have been remaking the foundation without running at a loss. Good first step.

So for me, it's not the amount available, it's where it's spent. I do believe, as I keep going on about, that the skeleton-meat analogy offered up by EvilDaz is correct.

I don't mind MON looking for bargain players to make up numbers. If the right players (creative midfielder, RB, striker) are available, I'd like to see money spent there. £100m is never going to happen. I could see up to £50m being spent, and that would do us quite nicely, I think.

But the total will be about who is available and can be persuaded to sign. If MON can find a quality creative/attacking midfielder like Gerrard to partner Barry, a clinical finisher to partner Carew or one of the others, and a RB with pace and skill distributing the ball, Villa would be difficult to contend with. And perhaps another CB for cover and competition. I'm talking about starters...Obviously need some cover players, don't care where they come from.

But for now, Villa should consolidate in the UEFA Cup zone, spend a couple years there. Liverpool's struggles and everyone else's flirtation with that 4th spot have made a number of fans a bit impatient. I want Villa top of the table and in CL as well, but it's not as simple as saying we're £100m away. It would be all too easy to throw £100m away and still be exactly where we are, and have less financial resources to get out of that mess.

DLS, more consolidating and we'll all be DEAD by the time this club actually achieves anything. Let's see the money!!!

Here here!! :)

x 2 Goalys, 1st choice 9m. 2nd choice 3m.
x 2 Right backs, 1st choice 8m. 2nd choice 4m.
x 1 Center back 8m.
x 1 Right Winger 10m.
x 1 Creative mid 7m.
x 1 Striker 10-15m
I think we could push with about 60-70m but we will be lucky to see half of that and that would still be more than we have ever spent net so it would be progress.