FIFA vote in favour of 'six-plus-five rule' and it needs to happen

Spot on Damo absolute sense - clearly the break has done you good. ;) ;)

I missed you Peter, I really did. But the whole site makes sense, every word of it, if you share the opinion.

If you don't share the opinion, it doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to someone else.

The 6 5 rule is all well and good in the beginning but it won't make a difference to club sides moving forward. All you are now going to get is inflated prices on English players and also the big four will be the only ones able to purchase them and will end up with all the cream of English talent. Its the same issue we already face we are just calling it something else. True it will have a positive effect on most domestic leagues but not all national sides will flourish because of it and I'm obviously pointing towards the Irish team. Players that may have in the past declared for Ireland instead of England may now think twice because of their carriers and although this may seem great for most of the people on this Blog you can obviously see how this will now have a negative affect on the international game. So in essence you're going to see an imbalance at national and international level. I was all for the 6 5 rule in the beginning but having researched I can see it is only going to lead to more problems therefore the only way forward is a salary cap, perhaps a system similar to the one in the US where you can only have one player over X amount in wages i.e. your star player.

Not sure I agree with you here. What do we class as foreign players? Scottish, Irish or Welsh? As for it being better for the national team, I can't help thinking that this is a red herring. Surely if England was producing enough talent then they would actually come through anyway. THe problem lies with transfer fees, which for some reason are higher for English players. This will only get worse if this rule comes in. The quality will only stay the same, because the development of players has nothing to do with nationality but with the determination of the individual players and the set up of development of the wider sport in the country.

Now that opens up a much bigger subject, how we develop players in this country, which I don't think has anything to do with where players come from.

Let's be honest, We would like this rule because of the effect it would have on the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and, to a lesser extent, Man U. If Villa had 8-9 foreign players we would be as wary as others of this.

That said, if it does come in and destroys the fabric of these teams, bring it on.

Green villain is 100% right. its obvious that if a top 4 club can only field a starting XI featuring 5 foreigners they are going to buy the best english talent out there what ever the cost. We have seen already Chelsea buying SWP 24mil, Man u hargreaves 20mil, Aresenal Walcott 12mil. Aswell as players like Micah Richards 24 mill price tag, crouch 15mill tag. This is just because of the trend that clubs want english players...if it becomes a law then we could forget keeping Gabby, Young, barry and even carson would be worth the 10million benitez wants! I don't see what good this will do. It will increase the prices of the worlds biggest stars because again bigger teams would want to fill their available slots with the best talent from across the world! Also salaries would increase in an attempt to lure these players! The premier league would loose its clout aswell and wouldn't be as an attractive league if it didn't have as many foreign players in it as it does. What we would see is maybe the top 6/7 clubs who can actually attract/produce retain english talent play good football whilst the rest of the league would resort to playing long ball ugly football. Which would mean a lot of people would stop watching!! If you look at the attendences which VP saw this season it was completely down to the football we were playing!! On face value it might look like a good deal but its simply not the case! it will cause the top 4 to horde the top english talent, increase wages, increase transfer fees and degrad the premier league and its standard of football. Who looses out? the Fans...ticket prices will have to go up! the football won't be as good and i think it will make it even more difficult to break into the top four! Personally i think it is a ploy to weaken the premier league. If you look at the success of the english team in europe over the years its frightening. All the foriegn players want to play in this league now meaning it will only get stronger!!

This rule is complete nonsense in my opinion. Forcing a quota of 6 English players into a team will be good for who exactly? it won't be great for the league as the big clubs with all the cash will quickly snap up every english player of note and leave the rest looking at even worse fooder to fill their teams. 2 examples of how it could potentially be bad for Villa. Ashley Young, next time Villa might not get the chance too sign him if young British talent is at a premium, some of the top 4 will sign him just to add weight to their English contingency. Nigel Reo Coker, poor and all as he is could be possibly out of Villas reach if this rule came in.
Also, as an Irish fan, some say its good for the English national team it would absolutely kill the Irish team(its on it last leags already), as this would force Irish players out of the league where ervery Irish footballer of note has been playing for the last 40 years
Also I think the idea of salary caps is a silly idea also, considering that we all share the ethos of capitalism, it goes against the ideas formed in our nationalites. We live in free capitalist society where people are free to make as much money as they want.
I honestly don't know who this is for the benefit of, or is it just an attempt to slow the juggernaut that is the Premier League at the moment
Please someone tell me who this rule would really benefit?

Well, I would normally waffle on in a childish manner, but I would not want to upset 'I HATE BLUES'! So all I have to say is I also 100% agree with Green Villain. UTV

I agree with the fact that there needs to be a limit to the number of foreign players for the sake of our National Team because frankly, bar Gerrard, Ferdinand, Barry and Young, we are rubbish!

But if it does happen, then Green Villain is absolutley spot on! The 'Big Four' will just nab everybody and then the EPL is going to be even more predicatable than it is now!

I think that Green Villain is right about the Salary Cap thing! That only 1 player can be paid so much above X amount!

Oh yeah Damien, you need someone to stand up to the EU? I am a man with a Sniper Rifle for hire! I have a feeling my services may be required!

I was going to make a few points after reading the post but the guys above in the comments have already made them all. Another stupid idea from Blatter and his FIFA Clowns. His intensions are good (I think, though it probably is actually an attempt to bring the Premier League down a peg) but this ain't the way to do it for all the above reasons.

There are always good and bad points to every system but certainly the Salary cap has to be the most logical regardless of our ideals. A recent article I read stated that the current rise in wages is having a huge affect on clubs throughout the country. The Turnover/wages ratio is ridiculous. Clubs like Boro, Blackburn and Sunderland are spending between 85% and 90% of their turnover on wages with the likes of Liverpool as high as 58% and Utd 44%. Only 8 clubs in the league actually made an operating profit Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham, Newcastle, Reading, Sheffield United and Watford. If this is the case then surely the salary cap will be backed by the clubs if not out common sense out of necessity. I don’t think people understand how bad things actually are.

we best start signin sum fkin foreign wonder kids a it

looking at it this way, sum clubs wud be fuked if this rule came in. esp the big four. and from that point of view i would like it because it stops the purchase of success. on the other hand inflated transfer fees for english players wud jus mean only the top 4 can afford them. not sure really, but think this is jus another attempt by sepp to leave his footprint in certain affairs. he is a bit of a meglamaniac in my opinion.

'Jobsworths' are quite powerful. Jean-Marc Bosman was one such 'jobsworth' and he had a huge impact on the game.

The rule will not go through, and I don't think it would make much difference anyway. The CL final had 10 English players on the pitch. We need better coaches/managers, not better players.

I think it would be a good 'target' to have 6/5 but not a hard and fast rule.

For once I find myself agreeing with Steve McLaren:

[b]"Let’s improve the players by improving the coaching, so that eventually in five years time we have got that six and five, but the six are there on merit but not because of law"[/b]

It will never happen and even if it did the prem would evolve, just like villa broke away and started the football league and the prem broke away from the football league. I agree with the majority that it is just blatter and co trying to stop us dominating european football( we do have a posible 9 clubs involved next season ), and in my opinion the way they keep singling us out is borderline racism.

great news, that means it 3 years time arsenal will have signed all our best players!

in all seriousness its a bit of a joke, the divide between the big 4 and the rst will get bigger

and does anyone know if it means born in englad or have english nationality? cos forgive me if im wrong but havent people like fabregas been here long enough to be granted nationality?

i think fifa would have been better off looking at the youth set ups, look at the chelsea team that beat us, and the man city team that we then beat - only about 3 english kids in each

This rule would be terrible. I don't see the point. There is no reason for such protectionism.

This is a terrible idea, as many others have already stated.

Any time competition is limited the quality of the product decreases. If your concern is the improvement of English players, this rule will have just the opposite effect. There will be more of them in the Premier League, yes, but they will be playing against inferior competition. Putting them in the Premier League doesn't suddenly make them better players. The Premier League is the best league in the world precisely because it is unbounded by artificial restraints.

Every single league would have to adopt this 6-5 rule or the Premier League will sink. Imagine if the Premier League adopts this rule but La Liga doesn't. The Spanish clubs continue to improve because the competition is more intense and unfettered. The best English players see this, and dreaming of Champions League titles and a spot on the English national team roster, they move to Barcelona or Madrid. The best players will want to go where the competition is strongest to keep themselves sharp. They won't want to be coddled in a system that protects them from the harsh realities of pure competition.

You're concerned about the national team, and that's great. But what about African national teams? If Europe shuts many of them out through nationalistic zealotry, where will they hone their skills? Many come from countries that lack the proper infrastructure to support a professional league, and even if they did these leagues are nowhere near the level of the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A and other top European leagues. They won't have a fair shot to make something out of themselves simply because of the geography of their birth. Are you willing to sacrifice their careers for what you think is a better shot at a World Cup?

AmericanVillan

nearly half of the players will be from overseas .. it's hardly a huge drop from where it is now

also, my views are not expressed purely on the back off a successful national team - my main view is that i think it will make the league a slightly more level playing field .. slightly

I see your point - I'm just greatly opposed to any sort of limits on competition. Agree to disagree I guess. ;)

As for a slightly more level playing field, allow me to use a sport from my own country, baseball, as a wonderful example. There is no salary cap in baseball, just like the Premier League. They use a revenue sharing system, in which the larger markets give part of the money they make from TV and merchandising deals to the smaller market teams. This makes up for any inherent advantage in geography and leaves the rest to good management. Right now Major League Baseball has more competitive balance than it's had in a decade because smart management trumps money. The New York Yankees, the Manchester United of MLB, are in last place in their division because they gobbled up "big-name" players without giving as much thought to developing their own talent. In fact, one of the teams with the best records, the Tampa Bay Rays, is one that hasn't spent big on any star signings but developed their own stars; their payroll is only 20% that of the Yankees'. Smart money will always trump big money. Let's put our faith in MON to install a good development system (as it appears he has) and then let Randy spend what is needed to keep our players that become stars. We don't need anything else to be successful.

I think there is a lot to learn by following what some of the US based sports have done and agree strongly that smart management will win in the end.

I tend to think that is why the likes of Lerner and the Liverpool two got involved - they know they will be able to make money out of this one day - maybe sooner rather than later.

But imposing this rule, is just the beginning. I think most would agree that the amount of money in the game these days is far beyond what any of us could have imagined and that it isn't really right.

Sure they deserve to get paid a good salary but is £5mn. a year really necessary?

If FIFA can get this through, which I suspect they will, then it opens the door to other ways to improve the overall game.

Unfortunately the question isn't whether it's necessary, it's whether the markets will allow it. If the Premier League is making as much money as the news outlets say they are, then that money is going into someone's pockets. Would you rather the owners keep it all? If the owners are in fact losing money but still paying these exorbitant salaries, well, I guess that's their right as someone with more money than sense. They're going to blow it somehow.

Also, how does imposing a quota on players of a certain nationality drive down salaries? Not sure I see the connection there.

I'm not saying that this 6 plus 5 rule will drive down salaries, I'm saying its one of a possible few first steps to making that happen.

Salary capping has been talked about at FIFA and UEFA for a while now, even the British government have spoken about it.

I don't think FIFA would have brought this out so publicly if they didn't fancy their chances of imposing it - it is a game after all and they are the governing body.

As for where the money goes - if my business is successful and I make more money because of that success, I'll certainly keep it and if Aston Villa win the league, the FA Cup and Champions League and we make £50mn. profit - I've got no problem with Randy Lerner keeping all of that money whatsoever - or any club owner for that matter.

Come on, Damien. Football is no longer just a game. It is a large industry dominated by public corporations. Don't give us that crap. Moreover football has greatly improved with further corporatism imho. Yes there's the prawn sandwich brigade and all that lark, but nobody could argue that the Premier League is not of a much higher quality than Division 1 was twenty years ago. If you want local lads fighting for the shirt, feel free to support your local Conference team. If you want top quality, you want the EPL. The Commissions will rightly stop this so the rest of the post it moot, but as a football fan I feel it important to say this.

This local players concept is a load of protectionist sh!t. Yes Italy are world champions and they have the most domestic players per team as well. But correlation does not mean causation. Perhaps Italian teams play more Italians because they are the best players in the world.

You're missing the bigger picture. A protectionist rule would have Wayne Rooney playing against Liam Ridgewell rather than Martin Laursen, which would push him less as hard. He'd be less of a complete player. The same goes if he was forced to be supplied crosses by Wayne Routledge instead of Ronaldo. Sure, Ridgewell and Routledge would be better players, but at the expense of Rooney, Ronaldo and Laursen. It's a crappy pseudo-socialist transferal of quality from the best to the mediocre. The net result, I promise you, is less world-class players like Messi and Ronaldo.

This might be of benefit to England and Villa. England do not have the same quality players as Italy or Brazil. Villa do not have the same quality as United, but are loaded with English players. So England and Villa will probably gain. But this is exactly the problem: the poorer quality teams benefit from the loss of bigger teams/players.

Of course I want the Villa to be the best team in Europe. I'll love it when we beat Liverpool at VP next season, with or without GB. But I don't want to us to win because of some stupid change in the rules that benefits relatively weaker teams like ourselves. That's not putting Villa down, it's facing reality that we're not as good as Chelsea or Utd. I especially don't want this rule to be based on some really, really stupid semi-racist rule of "Britain for the British".

Does FIFA have that power? I'm under the impression UEFA would have to be the one enforcing the salary cap. Have they made a statement as to whether they oppose or support it?

Well sure, I'm all for keeping profits too, but to run a successful business we both know it takes many talented people, and to keep those people they need to be properly rewarded. I could see more than a bit of discontent if they find out they're making 2 million/year and the boss is making 50. A little lopsided, don't you think? Consolidation of money into the hands of a few is a dangerous idea.

some interesting and intelligent comments here about why the 6 5 rule is a ridiculous idea. i've yet to read a convincing argument about why it's a good idea.

Good comments...Couple thoughts

1. Would the rule automatically mean the top4 still benefit? The other teams could hold firm with their players if the sudden impact to those top 4 teams made everything immediately more competitive. If the stranglehold is broken, there's not necessarily a reason to leave.

2. Unless it's simply for money, and the richest teams can pay the highest wages, as is already the case. But Villa could say, "C'mon down Stevie" and the scousers wouldn't be laughing. With what we've got on the field already, luring a couple of the top remaining English players might be very feasible. Gerrard, Bentley, Rooney...We're top of the pops! The oddities of the CL and its revenue affected the league's balance, so I don't mind if something else does.

3. Salary cap. Doesn't necessarily affect the players' ability to earn in a relative sense (meritocracy remains), but it spreads out the best players, because each team can only afford to spend so much money, so they each choose how to allocate it. Players still search for the best deal. You can't stockpile big players because you can't afford it. It would level the playing field all across Europe, but Italian sides might be at an initial advantage. It's not a bad system. There's also revenue sharing as AmericanVillan explained so well. These rules were devised to address the issues football's facing. Pros and cons, but they do even out competitive advantage, and it's good for fans and TV and therefore revenue. More teams are competitive more often.

4. This should've been "1", but I do think it's primarily a move to hamstring the EPL. So it should apply to all leagues. In the end, I think this potentially could be a plus. The football might suffer in the short term a little, but it would restore the national element to the club competitions. And then England/Britain would be forced to develop talent to remain competitive at all levels, including the money ones. But it seems clear that there's fear of the EPL kicking on and further dominating Europe, and this is the real reason for the rule. I certainly can't see anyone outside England wanting the English national team to improve for any reason. Remember Platini complaining about the EPL teams signing all the young players developed elsewhere.

The EPL can still be competitive or even dominant, but it will depend on who can pay the biggest wages. Teams will still sign the five best foreigners they can find and afford, and that's no small contingent. Come to think of it, I'm not sure how much it would really affect the EPL...Which teams currently start more than five foreigners, vs. the number of foreigners on the squad? Perhaps it means those willing to be subs at the top four spread around the EPL, particularly the teams like Villa, Tottenham, Everton, Man City, and so on who have a bit of cash? Would all the five foreigners starting on any given team not really be replaceable by someone English in due course? How do they redistribute is the question, given that the rule would have to apply continent wide. The Eredivisie, France, Germany? My guess is to whichever team can pay the biggest wages and be the most competitive the soonest.

I guess I'm envisioning a free-for-all kind of moment, where all the game pieces are thrown in the air. Never know how they'll all get grabbed up.

if this rule happens least we would be ok...arsenal would be fucked

I think this has to be thought out very carefully!
1. The 6 5 rule seems a great idea in practice but i dont think it will work! reading this site the 'quality' players villa are linked, the real 'quality players' are primarily foreigners - henry, diego, et al, which means this effects the players we buy. as Green Villian stated, it inflates English prices(there go our links with SWP, Milner and Crouch, who would not be the same value as henry IMO), which is stupid and benefits the top 4 in a sense they can afford it! it means benitez has a greater emphasis in signing barry and means villa have to find another englishmen to fill the gap left!

2. I agree that this is primarily targeted at the Premier league! Englands domestic success and success in CL mirrored by their failure to qualify for Euro 2008! but if england qualified for euro 2008, would we still be complainin?? Steve McClaren had the 200 best english players from the epl (if we add the 6 5 rule, wouldnt they still be the best 200??) to choose from and only ever considered 30 (and beckham). the reason why england didnt qualify for euro 2008 is due to a lack of talent or too many foreigners but the fact that McClaren didnt chose players that deserved it! the majority of McClarens players were from the top 4 (ie: Crouch, i think hes great bt hes a part-timer!! chance yur hand and give someone else a go) On that note however, whilst i hate man utd, i cannot see how carrick didnt get a mention inthe friendly against USA, or in the qualifiers and beckham was on the right hand side the whole time!! wat a joke!

3. do we want to see the best XI or the best englishmen? as an aussie my answer is the best XI but i do agree that teams need to focus more on homegrown talent, and credit to MON for doing so!! but IMO, instead of a 6 5 rule, why not have a minimum number of players in a team that must play for the leagues country (ie: in the epl, each team must have a minimum of 7 players capable ofrepresenting england)?? this doesnt limit the chances of foreigners but forces Wenger, Ramos' et al hands in buying/developin english talent that will inevitably mean there is a greater english balance in the team! if the FA, UEFA and FIFA are serious about homegrown talent IMO this pleases all parties! despite being an aussie i do like england to succeed in football as it means people get off foreigners back and i can enjoy watching good quality soccer (i mean footbal :P)

Let's start having salary caps also. In fact, we should play rugby, american football or cricket instead. If such a rule as the 5 6 is implemented then it should be limited to non-EU. As much as I dislike Arsenal's starting XI, I think they should be free to have whoever, given they are European. None of this African/South American bullshit flooding teams.

If Carlisle Utd had 6 Scottish players in their starting line up, they'd suffer a penalty? Bollocks.