How to score goals, by Martin O'Neill
Wednesday, 13 February 08, 08:11 AM · Comments (22)
Let’s just imagine for a second that we actually did sign Jermain Defoe in the transfer window. Let’s also imagine that he went straight into the team.
Let’s pair him with Gabby at centre forward, with Ashley down the left and Shaun down the right. Or even Ashley down the left and new boy Wayne down the right. Villa would have had quality, no doubt about it, with pace in abundance.
But more than anything else it would’ve been very predictable. Opposition managers would’ve instructed their defenders to defend deep, trying to stifle the one asset that we have most of.
I think that’s why Mr. O’Neill has persevered with John Carew, and Alan Hansen’s comments this week started me thinking about this. Here are his comments about the Newcastle match this week — “Anyone will tell you that if you are dealing with a giant like John Carew, you keep him away from the penalty area - not Newcastle. They almost invited him in at Villa Park and got destroyed after the break. The opposite is true when playing against pace. You don't defend high up the pitch.”
I think this is why Villa are scoring so many goals — we’ve scored more goals away from home than any other team this season. But it’s not just the pace — it’s about teams not knowing how to defend against us. If they defend high up the pitch to keep big John out of the penalty area, (as Hansen would have them do), we exploit it easily with our pace. If they defend deep, we have power in Carew that is so vital. I think that’s one reason why Marlon is having such an impact in games too.
One problem we have is that when the opposition defend high up the pitch and big John isn’t playing well, (the FA Cup third round is an instance), it often leads us to play the long ball, which I know some have seen enough of this season.
Anyway, it’s just a thought — it obviously doesn’t explain everything. Don’t get me wrong, I would’ve liked Defoe and he would have been a decent addition to the squad. But I think there will always be a place in the team for both pace and power.
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22 Comments · Add yours
I agree with what you're saying and it's a decent observation. Clearly O'Neill knows what he's doing here but if you look at his teams in the past he did something similar. Big man up front, Heskey anyone, John Hartson..... And at Celtic he liked to play pacey players like Agaite. It seems he is trying to repeat a formula that has been tried and tested in the past. This is why Agy does well in the system because the oppositions defenders don't know what to do. In saying that Marlon and Big John up front seems to be to much Strength and power for a lot of sides, one of them takes the big center back out of it but then two, well look what happened to Newcastle.
Interesting take on the situation, Jon. It's obvious MON is getting something right when you sit so far up the table. I think some people are so used to seeing villa lose than they've missed that MON has got an ingredient for success in the side, and perhaps feel like he's riding the crest of a wave and is bound to sink soon.
The optimist in me wants to believe that MON does know what he's doing and i'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise. Proof to me would be buying in his players and over a period of at least an entire season is unable to keep villa out the bottom half of the table. The competition in the premier league is so intense that even a top half finish is now considered an achievement. European football qualification, if achieved at the end of the season by villa really should be recognised for what it is, a very difficult task even with money to spend.
Look how hard it is to find a striker who can bag double figures... things have changed.
It's a good point to make, I have always been unsure on Carew and to an extent I still am. I don't see him as our "20 goal a season man" but its a formula that is working within the team and working dam well at that.
The Newcastle game opened my eyes up a lot to Carew and how dangerous he is when the defence are lacklustre.
I haven't been this excited about Villa in years and its pain full in the week just waiting for the matches!
it sounds so simple. i think we have a good balance of power and pace and we just need to add a bit of quaility in the summer and we are gonna be a serious team. MON is doin a good job, dont agree wit everything hes doing,like playing petrov, but hes a good manager and he has taken us to top 6 so i cant really complain about the way hes doin it. id expect a right back creative mid fielder and a goalscorer in the summer and then maybe 2 or 3 squad players.
Personally I think Defoe and Gabby would have been competing for a place up front with Carew, rather than the two of them playing up front together.
We like our big centre-fwds at VP. You can stretch a line from Harry Hampton, Pongo Waring, Doog, Andy Lochead, Andy Gray, Peter Withe, Dion Dublin. All our best teams have had a big man up front. And long may it continue.
I have to agree with what you are saying. for a while i have been unsure about carew's ability to net double figures in a season and thought much of MON's applaudits on him were just trying to build his confidence up. But there is no doubt that weaker defences really struggle to manage him. all we need is the quality behind him si if he is having a bad day we can compensate from somewhere else. maybe he will get 20 goals, maybe not but i have to say when he is out injured i fell we are missing a key figure.
yes martain o "knows what he is doing" 1 or 2 big centre forwards and pace and most improtantly aggression and determination throughout the team he is the best motivational coach in world football so any group of players will do"well" under him so villa will be sucsessful with mon in charge but if mon had truly world class players we could be at least where chelsea are not on a par with everton liverpool and spurs, so if we want to progress mon needs to be as agressive in the transfer market as he is insperational at 1/2 time
It's a good theory, but I think the main reason we've scored so many goals is because we're good at set pieces. We don't score as many goals from open play.
i am kinda glad we didn't sign defoe because we really don't need another centre forward. we have a selection problm as it is upfront. we needed a right midfielder and we got one we needed a right back and im sure we will get one come summer.
I think the reason for success is the variety of goals we can score and ways to score we can turn to.
Although, Fulham away was an example of, we didn't know how to work it in...and we were poor. I think anything now would be a great season, even if we don't make Europe, we have seen what can be done, and it has took so little time, and little money (Few points off Chelsea - How much have they spent in the last 5 years?).
I would love a write-up and the resulting discussion about all the contenders for Europe, including the end-of-season run-in etc, Maybe it will come later.
How optimistic are people??
We have a fairly easy fixture list from now on, and we have lost only 1 to a bottom side table (I think, In Fulham), 1 loss in 10 league games...Can we go the distance?
You think a poll about the attendance of games on this blog would be answered honestly, I am curious to know about the people that respondm whether they go every week, just home games, on the occasion, etc.
And to think, we got Big John Carew for the master of the dive himeslef - Baros :P
yeah its a goodpoint,But looking at it i do think reo-coker is a being a bit ignored by us villians,His presence in the middle is really letting Young,Maloney,and even Barry think more about creating than defending,I know he lks awkward at times but he gets his foot in and thats all we need.Real shame Petrov has never got going he should of been to us what Arteta is to everton but he's turned out very poor,Stevy davis was better prospect,Up the villa!
Lots of good points. At various points in the season I question Carew and Gabby as we sometimes seem to be carrying both of them. MON's after match comments, esp on Gabby, suggest he is either feeding a line to journalists or he genuinely sees something I don't. Well he is the manager and I'm not so I suppose I have to go with the second option.
Carew's value is seen when he's not playing as neither Gabby nor Ashley look as good then.A good big CF will tie up defenders, they always have to be closely marked; a very good one will tie up two defenders. A lot of the best work is never seen.
With regard to the pace and power balance of a team Harewood should be the perfect player as he, potentially, has both.He's had a slow start but that often happens with a new player [eg Ashley] and the second season is the time to judge him.
The team that played 2nd half vs Newc looked the best balanced we have had this season.Perhaps MON should now take a fresh look at the mid-field balance to address the glaring problem on the right-hand side.Too often we've only threatened on the left but it looked far better on Saturday.Personally I would look at Gabby on the right flank again where his pace would skin most left backs. With a big CF and two pacey raiding wingers we could really do some damage.
It's a real traditional 4-4-2 with wingers.
It's a good observation. MON has been wanting Petrov to come through, and he hasn't. That's been the one bust, and is where we're missing the quality. But the big man up front, supported by pace, it's a time-tested formula, a one-two punch.
I think MON figures NRC's distribution will improve with time. If it does, watch out. Combined with his attitude and nose for the ball, an NRC that can take the ball and turn the transition will be a real force.
We're getting so many set-piece goals because we cause teams a lot of problems with the pace and strength, and are able then to exploit the resulting corners and free kicks. It's often offered as a criticism, seemingly, but I see it as a strength.
The open-play goals will come as we get the right midfielder and RB sorted and the "right" players are brought in. I think that's the quality that MON is looking for. Likewise, as these youngsters like Gabby, Young, and NRC get more experience, and make the proper distribution, open-play goals will increase. Right now, they often take too long on the ball, and the players still seem to sorting out the transitioning support. We don't often have that wave of midfielders coming to take the ball off the forwards who've gained position and possession in the box. It's like we get up field too quickly, and not just because we're knocking long balls.
The thing to remember is that this is still very much a work in progress. Winning and converting set pieces is sort of stage 1, open play wizardry is stage 2. Not that that's the master plan, but it's the way one would expect the goals to come. When we're scoring more from open play, and still winning set pieces and converting them, Villa will be more than a handful.
This, I presuming, is why MON is seemingly unconcerned by squad size. He knows that the youngsters need as many games as possible, and there's only one way to get them. More players on the squad who aren't taking starting spots are just going to be sitting around disgruntled, and only playing due to injury or suspension, which won't be helping the dressing room.
I think MON always intended to play out this season to blood the youngsters, get the experience, and build cohesion. The disconnect between the lack of transfer dealings and Villa's position in the table suggest that MON might even be a bit surprised by the results the team have gotten, but doesn't want to deviate from the growing year, where none of the young players are feeling too much pressure for their spots.
The money saved on wages today will be the money spent to keep the players when other clubs come calling.
It truly is a real 4-4-2 with wingers and I love it!
I think the second half team against Newcastle was the best balance i've seen from this Villa side under MON.
The Carew / Harewood thing scared the shit out of Toon and Maloney was great when put on the left. Ashley can play either wing which is a massive bonus whilst we work out our best team.
I reckon next season will see MON opting for the 4-4-2 with a big man / little man combination up top with Carew and Harewood competing for the same place and Gabby and new signing competing for the other.
Luke Moore is obviously on his way and apart from the fact that he's knackered, some of Gabby's problem may be due to the fact he has gone from nothing to full England International, Villa Hero in a very short space of time and has had no real competition for his starting place at AV this season.
This is why i'm so pleased Marlon and Big John worked out because it was our only other option without Gabby. I'd like to see Gab come off the bench for the Reading game to give Big John a breather and run rings round a battered Murty etc.
I'd play Gardner at right back no probs and Maloney on the right wing from the start but maybe give a debut to Wayne Routledge second half if things go well, switching Ashley back to the left.
Happy days at Villa and I can't wait to see who we're gonna buy in the summer.
UP THE VILLA ;)
Nice try, but im still upset that we dont have Defoe
thats the way to score goals....spend some money n get some strikers
well believe it or not the man knows full well what he`s doing which is why he`s such a highly respected manager in the game it`s just a shame some villa fans don`t show him the same respect,o`neill is up there with fergie and wenger and given time he will prove it at villa.We will win trophys under o`neill.
You know, I'm not as concerned as many about the amount of goals we score from set pieces. I recall during the last world cup reading a very savvy article saying that the nature of the world game is changing, and that more and more the more successful teams are the ones who can master and take advantage of set pieces. And what happened in that World Cup? Over 30% of all goals were scored from set pieces. Sure, we may all like to see flowing moves from open play, but Martin is onto something, we are winning, and these are happy days... ;D
Exactly, JG. When teams are packing 5 in the middle to get a result, it could very well be that the only good chances will be from set pieces. How many times have we seen one of the top four convert a set piece for a win? They're not above it, and we shouldn't be, either.
maloney is absolute quality.he brings pace ,skill,nice passes,crosses in for carew,and he dont lose the ball.wiv him on the left ,young on the right.barry and reo in the centre.we will keep rising in the league.wiv mellberg off .i reckon a super buy for us would be dawson frm spurs.they have got 5 natural centre backs