It's a fact, we're getting better and Barry isn't off to Chelsea
Monday, 29 October 07, 04:56 AM · Comments (30)
Martin O'Neill has confirmed that the Gareth Barry to Chelsea speculation is all paper talk and that he's not heard from Chelsea.
He's actually said and a little bit more "I would hope we're building a team not, not dismantling one", on the official club site.
It's of absolutely no relevance whatsoever but when the manager comes out and dismisses speculation about one player and not another it makes you think that the other talk could very well be true, or do we take the statement that we're building a team as an across the board statement and no players brought in by Martin O'Neill will be leaving?
Like I said it's not really relevant but every player has a price, it's just a case of Chelsea having to offer enough for Barry, but they wont and he'll be with us next season.
Anyway, to the statement in the title about us getting better. I must admit I've lifted this off H&V but it is a fact.
The best way for us to look at improvement or growth is to look backwards and compare. We've played ten games so far this season and if we compare the points picked up from the same teams last season to the points we've picked up this season there is quite a big difference.
Last season we had eleven points and this one we've got 15. Not huge but in terms of the season if we could improve like that on a game for game basis then we'd be guaranteed European football next season.
So, it's another positive from the first ten games and the second season of the new era. It's also one that we shouldn't forget because how we play and who we purchase or sell, while all part of the business, is quite irrelevant because the only thing that actually matters, at the end of the season, is how many points we have and where we finish.
If we continue like this then I'll still happily moan about the quality of football we sometimes see and I'll still question why some players are not playing and why some still are but if we see this improvement in points by the end of the season, I'll be happy and actually quite impressed.
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30 Comments · Add yours
I think what will show if the squad has improved is whether we can cope with injuries this season. We played well for 2/3 of the season but struggled ofr the other third when we had injuries.
I agree that comparing results with last season is an interesting and maybe reliable indicator of our progress (or otherwise) however I am still concerned about the fundamental style of play. Too many times we resort to the long ball and give away possession as a result. I know we cannot compare ourselves with Man U (yet!) but even before we were reduced to 9 men last week did we not see some sublime passing football from them? Thats how I would want to see our boys try to play the beautiful game.
kensmart1
i agree 100%. i want to see the style of football get better and i'll question that always. i'll also question other aspects because we can ..
but, let me put this to you; if we finish the season in say 6th spot with european football, will you be happy?
Damian you seem to have changed your tune from the 'a point at bolton is it good enough' post.
[quote]it's not bad but it's also not much of an improvement from last season, if any[/quote]
i've not changed my tune AVFC bhoy ... in fact what i wrote yesterday was spot on because it hadn't actually changed much from last year: it was 2-2 last season
my point is, while i'll moan about the style of play, who is playing and who isn't ... these are the facts, we're actually doing better match on match than we did last season ...
my tune isn't changing, i promise
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Damian - do you honestly think we will finsh 6th this season. Yes i would be happy if we did, but have absolutely zero chance of doing so!!
You are a betting man - i am more than happy to have a bet with you on this. 9th at best!
Tonebone .. come on ... you know that was just an example ;)
my point is, we finished 11th last season and we want to improve to the extent that in another four seasons (including this one) we're playing champions league football - to do that we need to improve so to some extent if we were to finish 9th, as you suggest, we'll be on target for champs league in another 3 seasons ...
while the football may not be improving at the level in which we want to if we do actually improve our league position to atleast 9th then none of us can complain because in theory we'll be on target for target
A lot of recent posts seem to come down to those who want instant success no matter whose head has to roll or how much it costs (see also the recent Tottenham thread) and those who don't mind losing or drawing the odd game as long as progress is being made. I'm definately in the second camp. We've got more points than this time last season, I don't think we're going to implode like we did in January, we've played 3 of the 'big 4' already, beaten Chelsea and nearly got a draw with Liverpool and have only been beaten by Man City away. As long as we keep going forward, pick up a few quality signings along the way then we should be knocking on the door of the Champions league in a season or 2.
For those of you who may not remember the days before buying the championship became the norm, managers used to have to build teams like in the case of Ron Saunders. He built several teams until he hit the jackpot in the late 70s early 80s. Yeah he made some crap signings and some players he signed took over a season to find their true form. These days its all about instant success, look at the money Liverpool have spent they're not guarenteed any silverware are they?
Be pateint get behind the team and quit moaning. Im sure if Randy Lerner thinks the jobs to much for MON he'll make the change. I remember watching 3rd division football at Villa Park as a kid and never ever did I imagine we would win the European Cup (when it wasnt a money go round) let alone the title. UP THE VILLA!!!
and if we finish 11th damian, which is a distinct possibility and the football doesnt improve?
Tonebone .. then, some questions will need to be asked and I'd like to think that the club will do the honourable thing and answer them
but if we win at the weekend, which you'd fancy, we'd be on 18 points. if we won and the football was much better it would just make it nicer
if i was to put money on where we'd finish i think 9 is about right, just like you said .. but i'm always getting a bit of stick for been too negative so i'm trying to be super positive today ;)
barry is staying! get in. we need another flair player atleast if we are to see even more improvement in the style of play. gabby, ashley and shaun maloney in my opinion are the main ones, petrov n berger cud be, but how much of a chance are they gonna get?
Damien,
Game for game basis, therefore Derby are last seasons Watford, and Bham, last seasons Charlton. Therefore we won't expect anything less than 6 points from the next 2 games....
are we getting a little too positive on here ;)
I just hope we have a good game against Derby on Saturday to set the lads up for the local Derby the week after next. If Gabby can get his scoring boots on again i can see him scoring 2 or 3 against a weak and slow Derby defense. Bolton played well yesterday and we were expected to beat them but we didnt. We all know the quality Bolton have in their squad. Derby (no offense) have not got much quality and i will be alot more upset if we leave Pride Park with anything other than 3 points.
I personaly dont care how we play as long as we keep picking up points.1 thing worrying me though is when teams play 4-5-1 we cant break them down, and opposing teams are spoting Olaf as the week link and atack that side more often than not
We got win more than Blackburn looks at there results much better than ours :(
GET RID OF MARLON
GET RID OF PETROV
LEAVE ZAT ON THE BENCH
---------------------------------
GET IN A QUALITY RIGHT BACK
GET IN A QUALITY MIDFIELDER ( UNLESS SALIF**** IS GOOD
GET IN AT LEAST 2 QUALITY STRIKERS
THATS JUST FOR STARTS AND MAY KEEP US AT ABOUT 8TH
IF NOT THEN ANOTHER 11TH ON THE CARDS
just got a text from a mate saying lee hendrie has died, anyone hear anything about it as i cant find anything on the internet
k
where did your mate hear this news from about hendrie?
GET RID OF SAD KNIGHT!!!!!!!!
LET HAREWOOD ON BENCH!!!!!!!!
TAKE SALIFOU TO GAME
LINK DAVIES LAURSEN
GET OAHLLEN CHANCE RB
ALSO BRING DEFONGNESO BE TWIN STRIKER
BLEND SHORT AND LONG BALL.
ar u saying the truth??
hendrie died?
i think its all bull, i know alot of people that have been getting them texts but iv heard nothing about it
I think come January we'll be 10th, maybe with a few good signings that find their feet quickly, we'll finish 7th.
Hopefully in 5 years we'll be challenging for 3rd or 4th.
Just a few sums.
Damian mentions 11 points vs 15 points not being a great difference.
Well it is an increase of 36%. Project forward on AV's final total of 50 points last season and you end up with 68 points. That was the same number of points as Arsenal and Liverpool attained last season!
OK there are "statistics, damn statistics and lies" as someone famous once said.
However, if you work out the points per match (1.5) and project forward on 38 games you end up with 57 points. Last season we would have finished seventh. One point behind Everton and one point above Bolton.
Is that what we would be happy with?
at Holte1970
When i referred to it not begin very much I meant from 11 to 15 i.e. 4 but if you look at that over the season it would be very nice. But I agree with what you're saying ..
But to answer your question, would we be happy with the projected 57 points and potentially finishing 7th, then I'd be very happy ...
Mostly because we'd be moving in the right direction as part of the five year plan. Seeing as we finished 11th in the first season I'd frankly be very happy with 7th, happy with 8th and fully expecting 9th - to remain on target for target.
at Damian
No argument with me on that analysis.
7th heaven.
I think if we can consistently get 3 points against bottom half clubs we should be in good shape to improve on finishing 11th. Not to get too stat-friendly, but if you look at last season's results, we had draws at home to Fulham, Boro and Wigan, a loss at home to Man City, a loss at Charlton and draws at West Ham, Watford, Wigan, Sheffield United and Fulham. That's eight points out of a possible 30, and that's why we didn't make it into Europe. Obviously the team has been a little inconsistent, but if we can pull out maximum points against teams like Derby and Boro, we'll be in good shape for when (hopefully) the reinforcements arrive.
we should realistically be looking to make it into the uefa cup through the intertoto competition. This is a realistic prospect for us either this season hopefully but definately next season. the only possible problem i can see happening for the villa is if steve mclaren (failure of english football) get removed from his job which is likely to happen will MON take the job??