O'Neill needs to look further afield in the transfer market
Friday, 23 May 08, 04:51 AM · Comments (33)
It’s the time of the year when tabloid speculation is at fever pitch, and the Sidwell/Hoyte combination is the early leading runner in the summer-speculation marathon.
But forget attributing any credence to the News of the World and discussing whether the players are coming or not, the early transfer gossip has got me thinking about a wider issue for Villa: in order to break into the Top Four, is buying from them a viable way to break the monopoly?
Very rarely do the Top Four transfer between themselves, and I believe this to be of some significance. In recent years the only players I can recall trading in a big-money shirt for another are Lassana Diarra and William Gallas.
The latter was a move out of discontentment, but he was still one of the first names on the Chelsea team-sheet, albeit out of his preferred position. Diarra’s move certainly was not beneficial in the slightest (9 league starts for in around 2 years at Chelsea and half that for Arsenal before moving to the south coast) and early evidence sees him far better suited at a club pushing for Europe.
Neither do Villa have a great record of this. Djemba-Djemba was certainly not good enough for Manchester United and he ended up playing in the Championship after a disappointing spell at Villa Park.
So if United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea don’t pool players from each other, should we risk going down the Djemba-Djemba route again? Are their cast-offs are the way forward for the next step of building a Champion’s League-challenging squad?
The manager needs to look past bringing in squad players and get in early on the big signings. The only thing Sidwell and Hoyte will provide is a greater depth, which of course is something Villa have always suffered from, but a bigger squad of a lesser-quality is only marginally improving the chances of making bigger steps next season.
This is where I feel a distinction needs to be made: just as Scott Carson was brought in on a short-term deal for a year, players such as Sidwell and Hoyte should be Martin O’Neill’s targets towards the end of the season, with a greater emphasis to bring in on loan rather than on long-term deals.
Players who are not good enough to be regular starters for the Big Four are not going to be the star quality Villa need to build a squad. Is Sidwell better than Barry, Reo-Coker or Petrov? Even if it is argued he is at the same standard then it adds fuel to the fire of the argument. To be building a squad we need to be ambitious in looking at players who are of a greater standard that what is there at present.
Indeed, this is why it is so important to keep Gareth Barry at the club. If he leaves, the only way to move forward would be to sign two midfielders of his equal ability: one as a replacement and another to improve the team.
Getting Barry to commit his future would be as good as a new signing; an England international who would find a place as a regular starter at Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal is the star quality that a 6th place Premier League finish warrants to reach the next step.
If, as it has been suggested, Villa need to look farther afield in attracting the big money signings that the biggest clubs in European will also be going for, saying no to European Champions Manchester United in order to settle down in B6 will be a tough obstacle to overcome. This is undoubtedly a conundrum that O’Neill is aware of.
But it has been done before. Any club in the Premier League would want to turn back time now and challenge O’Neill to sign Ashley Young.
If the Top Four only rarely transfer between themselves, there must be a wealth of upcoming talent in England and international pedigree on the continent that Villa can challenge for.
Let’s back O’Neill to set his sights higher and concentrate on Arsenal and Chelsea off-cuts as loan-signings rather than the longer-term future of the club.
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33 Comments · Add yours
Sidwell is infinitely better than Petrov and NRC, no question.
Whats the point of this article? I've read it a few times and it still makes no sense...
Are you trying to say we ONLY ever buy top4 cast offs? We clearly don't otherwise you would have listed the numerous players!
And saying players who can't get into the 1st 11 of the top 4 teams are no good is nonsense. Especially Chelsea & Man U, who's '2nd 11' would still finish pretty high in the league. Chelsea have a squad of 24 international player ffs!
Also Sidwell not getting in the squad ahead of Lampard, Essien & Ballack is no great suprise is it! Also the manager who bought him left and the new one doesn't play him - that happens to lots of WORLD class players when new managers come in!
What about Cashley Cole? He moved from Arsenal to Chelsea.
Anyway, think I disagree with you here mate. The players that we are supposedly after (Sidwell and Hoyte) are both currently at clubs where they are not being allowed to progress. Because they're playing with such big name players, it is extremely difficult for them to break in to the starting 11, and as a result they will be very hungry for first team football. I think MON is good at recognising potential in players, and I think he can see that neither of these players have hit their potential yet, but thinks that he can help them do that. I would welcome both Sidwell and Hoyte to the club, simply because I have total faith that MON will get them playing well. They've both impressed me before anyway.
Also, there is always a risk when buying players from abroad because there is always a chance that they won't adapt quickly to the premier league, so I have no problem with us buying talent from the top four. They're both young, promising, English players which is all good in my opinion.
i agree, sidwell is better than NRC and petrov
but that said makoun who is linked with man city today is a million miles better still, does MON ever send our scouts abroad? there have been some huge underachieving clubs across europe this summer whose players are looking to leave so why are we letting arsenal get them as squad players?
im not saying nasri would come to villa but the other 3/4 young players they have been linked with might
Matt, great article, your stuff has been really interesting recently, taking a grander overall view than the daily/weekly match-to-match type articles.
I do think that there will be some players worth taking off the big four, but only if they will be good enough to do a job for us. Hoyte could be an example - young, English, fullback. Right now I don't really care how good he is if he can play right back! He could always be the backup.
I don't believe Sidwell was ever that good - even on top form at Reading, I wouldn't have said he was much better than what we currently have, if at all.
Carew is a perfect example of a player on the continent that could come over and do a great job for us. But as EddyG87 said, these players could be a risk... but often a risk worth taking. We do have the money after all!
Stupid question really, are you suggesting buying players from a SMALL club is going to help us get into the BIG four. The reason these players are at the big four is because they have ability, whether they get into the starting line up or not. Sidwell was brilliant for Reading, and has not been given a fair chance at Chelsea. Lets be honest, were not competing with Chelsea, were competing with Liverpool. If we bought Lucas or Pennant then i would agree its a sideways step, but to be in Chelsea or Arsenals squad you must have some ability.
I agree on the theme of stretching our scouting and looking at players from underachieving clubs throughout europe. However, if push comes to shove I would generally prefer a cast off from a big club to a star from a small club.
For every Djemba there are a few James, Bentley, Forlan, etc. The players who get to the top clubs generally are high quality but some run into the situation where there is even better or more experienced players in front of them...
it doesnt matter we are gonna make about 4 signings prob all young and english!!
Its gonna be exactly like last summer. talk of the sidwell transfer will go on for a few months then there will be a press conference adn he will be unveiled as our big signing just like with NRC last summer.
we will then sign 3 more players - if u think anything else u r foolish!!!
Other than the fact that he can't pass, he's forgotten how to shoot and he's got an awful disciplinary record.....Nigel is a pretty hard worker. He doesn't stop running! ......but that's my opinion.
I don't believe that HUGE signings are that important this year. Look, we got 5th place with the squad we have now. Granted we have more games this season but with a few decent signings that we can develop(Michael Mancienne, Justin Hoyte, Scott Sinclair, David Bentley, for example) we'll be great. We need 'quality', but quality in numbers. All the players i've just named have the potential to be future England players, without doubt. However, i've love to see some European flair at the Villa.
As long as we stay away from Stephen Carr......i'm happy. ;D
To correct myself, *6th place*.
I think I agree in part with what you're saying, however, I think MON will see the next batch of incomming players as ones to try and cement ourselves into regular top six finishers. This being the case, I think both of the names mentioned above could be a step in the right direction.
If we can finish top six again next season (and qualify by right for UEFA - hopefully) it will strengthen our pull for bigger named players across other areas of Europe. Of course, there is always a possibility that we could acheive slightly better than expected and pinch a top four place (something everyone would welcome) but I think MON will be more driven by trying to ensure we, at least, start to be viewed as a consistent top six club. Anything more than this, at this stage of the plan, is a welcome bonus.
Elano/johnson from man city for me if Barry goes.
As for all these english players were signing, it only make's Capello's job easier, soon all he will have do is visit Villa, Chelsea & Man Utd to pick his england squad.
With an outside chance of making europe via the intertoto cup, surely it would help our chances more if we was to sign a few players from europe. Maybe MON would be well advised to wait for the european championship to see what quality players he could buy there. I think we have enough quality to get us through the intertoto cup, so there is no need to panic buy.
I agree to some extent...But I don't think you can make any hard and fast rules. Players picked up by the big 4 obviously have potential. Why they don't stick is the question. Young up-and-comers trying to displace more seasoned stars may or may not be able to make a case for themselves, even if they are of roughly the same quality, since they really have to be better than the star they're looking to replace. Since the big 4 are about maintaining their position, or pushing on past Utd., they're more about inserting the finished article than they are giving players time to develop. They prefer to let the players develop somewhere else then snap them up, a la Barry. But at the big clubs, not being guaranteed a starting place can almost be a death sentence to a young player's career.
As to getting that real quality in, someone who can start for the big 4, you've either got to get them young before they attract too much attention, or pull off a bit of a coup. One big signing, and others will follow.
If I may bore everyone with a tale from the NFL. Green Bay Packers, very similar to Villa. Team with great pedigree that had fallen into almost comedic straights. Small market, away from big cities. Flash players didn't want to go there, like being exiled to Siberia. One big free-agent signing, Reggie White, changed all that. Once he was signed, others followed, and Green Bay played in two consecutive Super Bowls, won one, won several division championships, became a flagship franchise again. Brett Favre, the qb, was the young player under everyone's radar that the Packers traded for around the same time, and became a legend surrounded by the talent brought in. They faced a similar mountain trying to unseat Dallas and San Francisco, who had dynasty-type teams. Granted there are different rules, and no CL equivalent, but that one signing changed the perception, opened the floodgates.
So...I do believe if MON can sign one big player, a Diego or some such, others will follow. In the meantime, my basic feeling is that if Sidwell was good enough for Chelsea to take a chance on, the fact he hasn't displaced an established star doesn't mean he isn't capable of being as good. He just might need to be somewhere else to make the next progression.
I agree sidwell is better than petrov and reo-coker. We need to be more ballsy with foreign signings. Players like Arshavin, Farfan are within our grasp and maybe just about van der vaart...
we need to go for the big players because its time we signalled our intent. i keep sayin this, but i think it is demoralisin, to see clubs compete for top players, (eg man city, portsmouth) and we do bugger all. look abroad, that cud be the key to gettin sum real quality to back up the english talent we hav. this summer is crucial.
Can i just say that i don't really agree with everyone saying sidwell is better than NRC and Petrov, the real deal is a player is only as good as the season he just had!!! Sidwell is barely known of at Chelsea he was a player that got greedy by going to Chelsea rather than going to a club where he could grow even more as a player, and NRC has played his heart out this season, but i still think Sidwell would be a god signing I just hope he could deal with being a squad player for us!!! :P I know i'll get stick for this but two signings i think we should make for squad depth is Kewell and Finnan, I think finnan could be a short problem fix for our right back situation and at £1.5M he would be a steal and kewell would be a great squad player for us and would definitely do well for us!!!! lastly i'll finish this horrible RANT with BARRY DON'T LEAVE US!!!!!!!
If those sorts of players are coming in to be part of a rotation system, which, MON has already reiterated his desire to do so, then i think that the above players mentioned would be ok, but only as squad players!
If sidwell was that good, he'd be playing for england, or at least got 1 cap! regardless of whoever is in Capello's squad, barry got in there in front of fat frankie and hargreaves and even Carrick!
I think we should let Middlesborough sign him!
I'd quite like to see milner back in claret and blue, what bout everybody else???
Beastmix: We need to get Steven Carr, he'll make any other signing Villa make this summer look possitively brilliant :)
dont ness. agree - sidewell is twice the player reo coker is!
i also think there is quality 2 be taken off the top 4, but for a bit of class and creativity, we mite have 2 look abroad.
in order of pref.
jasskalinen/foster/given
richards dunne laursen bridge
miguel davies riise
brown shorey
hoyte bouma
duff van der vaart barry young
bentley petrov sidwell
hunt reo coker bolard
milner
barnes
routledge
martins carew
saviola crouch
smith
doyle
stokes
I pretty much agree with this Article. Sidwell is an alright player, nothing compared to Barry but would make good rotation with Petrov and Reo Coker. Hoyte may be young but he looks so dodgy for Arsenal, I don't know why we would be interested. Just because they in the top 4 doesn't mean they are the best talent that we are going to be able to bring in, though you might argue they must have something to have gotten there in the first place. I just feel there is real quality outside the top 4 and abroad and I think we'll benefit more from looking there.
On Reo Coker, he works his arse off. He's one of the best ball winners in the league but his passing needs to improve, which I'm sure he already knows because in my opinion he has improved that over the course of the season.
Despite what I just said, I'd love Scott Sinclair from Chelsea, great potential!
madladdy said:
[quote]Whats the point of this article? Are you trying to say we ONLY ever buy top4 cast offs? We clearly don't otherwise you would have listed the numerous players![/quote]
The argument is that buying from the Top Four is OK...but not at such an early stage and MON should look to build the squad from players further afield if Villa are going to make bigger strides than last season. It seems quite an obvious point but in order to start challenging the Top Four we aren't going to do it with players who can't break into their first team; but there is a wealth of other talent across Europe we could be aiming to buy.
Eddy: Can't believe I forgot about Cole: put it down to a rather embarrassing memory blank. But I agree with those saying Hoyte would be a good signing, but only because he is young and English and we don't have an out and out right-back at the club anymore. But it will only be a good signing if we sign another right-back of perhaps better star quality to contest the position so that we have depth in all positions.
LINK
bouma saw what happened to berger, right?
I doubt Hoyte would come to Villa to sit on the bench, do think we need a stronger right back though.
wtf steve sidwell is not as good as NRC reo-coker was the best tackler this year with the most tackles overall an 80% win percentage.... dwarfs the stats of mascherano etc. how could u put sidwell in the same category as NRC so keep barry! no sidwell look for a replacement for stan although he has finally started looking like the old petrov but another ashley young is needed so lets hope martin gives us another master class like he has with ash! Bentley or Lennon!
I have to say that there are some players at top 4 that would improve both quality and depth to our squad. Just because a player is not a regular does not mean he's no longer any good, we are talking about [i]known[/i] quantities unlike Djemba ditto. He was pretty untried in the Prem before he came to us. The so-called cast offs we're linked with would be good additions. As for foreign players, the Djemba/Baros experience ought to warn us to tread carefully, whereas the Laursen/Carew experience shows that there are fantastic opportunities there to be had. I reckon that MON is looking for players in both Britain and abroad to realise his next step to get us into the top 4, he knows what is needed, and will get whatever is required. Last season should have taught us that he's almost God. Next season will see the whole country bending it's knee before him.
chelsea blog cryin ova the champions leagu... slaggin barry off sayin he is off to liverpool cud do with a bit of help stickin up for him!!
LINK#comment-23497
New summer, same old - average - targets.
It's clear that if we don't spend big this time around we never will..one thing is careful planning and a long term set of targets, another is a sleepy, lazy looking around for players usually rejected by the big 4 or for Championship young prospects.
I wholeheartedly agree with this article, I've often speculated over the past 2 years with regards to the ability of Villa's present scouts and this summer we shall discover what they are made of.
Same applies for MON.
i presume your not basing your impressions of reo coker on his previous 2 league seasons? just like im looking at sidwell from his performance in for a poor reading side, and the fact that they shat themselves the following year without him...
i fully agree that reo coker is 1 of the best in the league for ball winning - and the best outside the top 5 teams (carsley has been phenominal). but 4 a midleft ball winner his distribution is absolutely pathetic and thats no exageration.
i would love for him 2 change my opinion and hope he does next season! (after coming off the bench)
Sidwell has done F-all all season, He left reading as soon as chelsea showed him more notes on his wages. Then was content in the thought of probably being told you're going to be a reserve and maybe just make 12 appearances a season and not get near the england squad, But he smiled and signed thinking of his new cars and house NOT FOOTBALL. then we're linked with him and people say great player easily better than Reo & Petrov, On what grounds ? ONE half decent season in the prem the rest of his career spent where ?. Oh he took apart the Villa midfield so he must be good. If that's the basis then i want hunt & harper of reading too because they did the same. Get a grip the guy's an arse at best and i hope he doesn't come Villa.
Note to Martin if you're reading, Go after Lucas Biglia of anderlecht i've been watching him for about two years, and i got say he's impressed me, theres is a lot he's achieved already and he's still got bags of potential, the key man to add quality to our midfield, so martin if you're reading you got to go after this player, before he comes to the attention of the bigger clubs.
how lomg do u reckon it will be before we sign someone, and other clubs start signin players? we gonna hav to be hav to be quick in the market