PMP: Aston Villa beat Everton in proper old fashioned game of football
Monday, 08 December 08, 02:53 AM · Comments (152)
I'm still a little soar from last night so I'm not going to go into too much detail from yesterday but will say if anything, yesterday showed that if we were to bring in a couple of players considered real quality, that there is a chance we could steal fourth place and maybe not because we got lucky.
Anyway, that's for January, which is 24 days away but you can expect to see Martin O'Neill act quickly this time round otherwise, he really could miss his opportunity. Now, to the papers.
Andy Hunter, The Guardian: "Young cut inside Lescott to score his second goal of an enthralling contest in the time Martin Atkinson had added on for the celebrations that followed Everton's second equaliser. While Moyes questioned the referee's decision, his Aston Villa counterpart preferred to extol the virtues of an outstanding young striker."
Ian Herbert, The Independent: "But a finale like this – Ashley Young's winner arriving three minutes and 32 seconds after the fourth official's electronic board blinked out the number three – defies too many ifs and buts."
Note to Ian Herbert: The three minutes that blinked for you is an indication that there will be a minimum of three minutes played. Had your team picked up the ball after equalising and frantically ran to put it on the centre spot to try and win the game rather than celebrate a point, the referee might have blown just after we kicked off, but you didn't. Your team was rightly happy for a point and spent approximately 32 seconds celebrating that.
Phil Thomas, The Sun: "Little wonder that just about everyone who witnessed the most incredible match this term was still scratching their heads in disbelief long after the final whistle."
John Edwards, Daily Mail: "As Lescott tore off his shirt and waved it over his head, Martin Laursen and his fellow Villa defenders crumpled to the turf in despair, spent physically and drained mentally after standing up to an Everton bombardment only to be breached at the last. Seconds later, Laursen was leading the charge to mob Ashley Young after Villa went straight up the other end and restored their advantage for one last time, with the scheduled three extra minutes already over."
"Villa had led after just 34 seconds through Steve Sidwell, only for Lescott’s first to bring Everton level before the break. Phil Jagielka’s shocking backpass presented Young with his first goal after 54 minutes and his late, second left the Merseysiders with just one home league win this season."
Player Ratings
I don't normally do this, instead look for someone to have posted it somewhere, But I want to today as you know it will be a little controversial, but if you read to the end, I might win you back, for a day or two.
Brad Friedel: 7 - when called upon to do his job he did it and if we hadn't conceded twice, this would have been a higher score
Luke Young: 7 - consistent and calm and did his bit
Curtis Davies: 7 - no real complaints although we did concede two goals. Like Friedel, it would have been higher had we not conceded twice.
Martin Laursen: 8 - only because he was everywhere and was playing like it was his last ever game. His heart was on his sleeve and if we had eleven of him we'd win every match
Carlos Cueller: 7 - very good second half and he is making that right hand side his despite him probably not wanting it
Steve Sidwell: 8 - scored and ran and ran and ran and ran. He will become indispensable soon.
Gareth Barry: 6 - there is another player getting a six and well, it's just that when the game is quick in the middle, he's too slow, but read to the end before commenting that I'm just against Barry
Stilian Petrov: 7 - this is an honest seven and was very close to a six but he was very good defensively and that was mostly his job yesterday
James Milner: 6 - he is very lucky that I don't have it in me to score someone lower than a six because he deserves it. His saving grace was he was involved for 34 seconds, after which he went to sleep.
Ashley Young: 9 and man of the match - I want to give him a ten for yesterday, but it wasn't one of those performances we'll talk to our children about, so I can't do it. We'll talk about the goal and the game in general, but for that match he gets a nine out of ten, which is as near perfect as he'll get from me but I do think he's got a ten in him and that we'll see it one day.
Gabby Agbonlahor: 7 - not his fault he was fairly distant today. Everton put their fastest player on him and as a striker you want more chances dropping at your feet. Had a job to do and did it but again, lucky to get a seven, but he's done enough to warrant it.
Final Analysis
Basically we were under the kosh for a fair chunk of this game and had it finished 2-2 I might even be writing that we should be happy with a point. Lucky for us, we had one of those games that remind you what it's all about and why you started watching football in the first place.
Winning like we won just feels good and the players that were needed to stand up and take responsibility did. Sidwell needed a goal, because that is what he does and Young needed a performance, because a lot has been thought and said recently about his form.
Certain players didn't perform but we can't expect every player to play a great game every week. The point of having a team of players is that those match winning performances get spread about and we've got to hope that soon, more of those players start having better games more regularly.
When that happens we'll become harder to beat and we'll win more games, but Mr O'Neill, when you've got 2 minutes left and you're that much under the kosh, start using your bloody substitutes to wind down time a little - it's what everyone else would have done.
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152 Comments · Add yours
FUNNY THAT, the 2 players with the lowest ratings are the 2 players that you constantly berate,its getting a bit boring geezer,thought milner worked his cock off helping carlos out,as we had to defend for 80% of the game
*sore
We are officially the best of the rest now, but to move up from here is the hard bit.
I never thought I'd want us to sign Heskey..
talusmanvillafan
funny, coincidence or just because they didn't have good games?
i apologise if its getting boring for you but at least i'm consistent with my opinion and on that performance, milner isn't worth £3mn. let alone the £6mn. i think we should have offered and nowhere near the £12mn. we did pay
Barry couldn't have a good game because no one was passing to him. He had to defend literally from the second whistle.
Milner deserves more than a six though, what about that last ditch tackle in the penalty area to deny Anichebe? He slogged it out defending all the game, just because the ball didn't go through him didn't mean he fell asleep.
Reply to Van_Dutch:
total agreement, there isnt many wingers in the prem who graft so hard up and down the line as he does,the only other i can think of is our left winger,bit of a pattern developing dont you think,i think its the way MON wants them to play when we are under the cosh.Totally off post has anyone been on the suns web site and watched the vinnie jones saga,great stuff
Reply to AVFCBlog:
Milner was not effective going forward but still set up Sidwell's goal. We were under heavy pressure most of the game and his defensive work was excellent, especially that tackle on Anichebe.
I know what you are getting at that he hasn't looked like a £12m player yet but he deserved a higher score than 6 and he is improving. Be patient.
We need a new striker and midfield playmaker urgently and then, with a fully fit Carew watch us break into that top 4
I thought we were pretty lucky yesterday but it was such a great game that you can't be to critical.
Do worry about the right hand side though, you expect more than a workhorse for 12 million, just don't feel as though Milner has the matchwinner mentality for an attacking wide midfielder. can't remember his last goal scoring chance. He's a decent lad though and like everyone else I want him to come good.
Its the Melberg scenario again with Cuellar, good centre half but not a great fullback, and already lamping it up without much purpose. We create very little down the right and it puts to much pressure on Ashley to deliver week in week out. Move Luke Young back.
Very surprised NRC isn't involved as I didn't think MoN would ever leave him out, toys out the pram soon !
Actually Damian I did not comment. That is somebody else using my user name but with a capital T as in Taglor. Mine is taglor. Please could you remove them as I am sure you would for somebody else. I actually loved the game and am still happy, thanks. Check my email account or whatever you need to do to prove they are an imposter,.
Reply to taglor:
uve made my day,i like the positive sounding taglor much more than the scary shouty one
you are prob being a bit biased about milner and barry as they were not the only ones to have an average game. this is how i rated it.
friedel - 7 - solid
young - 7 - good run for the first goal
davies - 7 - solid
Laursen - 8 - heart of a lion!
cuellar - 6 - silly foul leading to their first goal
milner - 6 - good lay off for sidwell, quiet after
barry - 6 - quiet
sidwell - 6 - well taken goal, quiet after
petrov - 5 - never there. below his usual high standards
young - 8 - great dual with neville and 2 well taken goals
agbonlahor - good assist for winner but quiet because we were
battered for the most part
that goal will hopefully have the opposite effect of the equaliser at the emirates last season. a fully undeserved win, arguably we deserved to lose but these points are what gets you in the top 4!! utv!
Getting a bit sick of the Milner slagging from you Damo, the Sidwell assist was his 4th this season (Webcam has 5) and he never gives less than 100%, his crossing was outstanding on Thursday and it will get better working with John Robertson et al. So what if he cost £12M???? You are the man that brings out the 'Its not my money' line so whats the problem? 'Hes not good enough for the money hes on' is another chesnut im tired of, if hes on twice as much as Osbourne would you prefer two Osbournes?
One last thought though, don't want to take too much away from Webcam for the super ball he put past him but Lescott switched off after he thought he had scored the winner, he should have done better and that is why he will never be a proper England player and Webcam will.
Great result, poor performance except from defense and Ashley. I wouldn't give any of our midfield (except for Young that is)anything more then a 6 at best. Totally out played there yet again. A 3 man midfield could not put 2 passes together. Milner was complete rubbish again. Yes we got a great result but in all fairness we could have counted ourselves to be lucky to getting a draw never mind a win. We were gifted the 2nd goal and were extremly lucky not be 2 1 down after the break. At one point they had 75% of posossion which really indicates how poor our midfield was yesterday. We should be very happy that they were missing Yakubu and Saha. Before ye start having a go i will say that it will go down as one of my favourite Villa games of all time but the overall performance (mainly by our midfield) should not also be overlooked. Right wing and playmaker desperately required in Jan not to fill the sqaud but to come straight into the first 11.
Reply to taglor:
Isn't it about time that only registered users can leave comments? Maybe then people can't anonymously insult people like Goldie was subjected to? Better policing is needed.
Reply to JonnyW:
I agree that Milner gives 100% every time and i don't think anyone is saying that he doesn't. But his 100% just isn't good enough for where we want to be. He isn't quick enough or skillful enough to be a winger.
Reply to JonnyW:
James Milner thinks Damian is overpaid as well
Reply to HectorFullone:
I thnk lucky is only partly true as we defended well and finished brilliantly but I am really concerned we had so little of the ball. We sat back so deep towards the end it was ridiculous. We got hussled out of possession a lot and I would have liked to have seen Reo Coker stiffen up he midfield as neither Barry, Petrov or Sidwell were winning the ball or keeping it very much. I was very critical of NRC last season but this season he has done well in the main and even though his retention is not great neither were the rest of our midfield so as sub he would have injected energy and bite with his lack of passing just more of the same.
I thought Young was billiant regardless of goals - he got kicked a lot (often fair tough tackles) but kept going and showed up Gabby who didn't do enough in a tough game. Milner worked hard and was ok.
Still great game and a couple of good signings, get the back settled with Wilf coming back and who knows.....but we need to learn to retain ball and kill a game off/ run down the clock
That was great fun. Its great to win when up against it. Fair play to Everton, they worked really hard to close down and kept trying to attack. It was hard on them not to get a point but thats what makes football great to watch. Its always unpredictable. Our lads worked their socks off and were really tight as a unit.
I refuse to say anything negative after seeing one of the best games this season.
Damien, once again your miles off the mark with Milner. I think your watching another player. He always gives 100% and works his arse off. It doesnt matter how much he cost as we have a chairman with millions, its just a drop in the ocean to him.
One day your going to take back all you've said about him.
Barry was more of a 4 for me. Looked outpaced wherever he went, seemed to enjoy running into players more than passing the ball or doing something useful with it. Just wasn't the Barry that Martin O'Neill talks about so often, not that i've seen him put in many performances of the calibre he rates him at.
Milner was pretty much gone after the first 10 minutes. Same as Agbonlahor, they rarely got a touch in the second half and whenever Milner got it, he was either bladdering it out for a throw-in.
I have to agree, thats one thing I pointed out the people watching the game with me....Barry is just too slow during the game. He's a class player on the ball no doubt but if we're chasing the game and getting battered (like yesterday), it highlights the fact he's quite slow even more.
Saying that, in the first 5 minutes it was like he had had an overdose of pro plus or something!
Great game and result yesterday and how people can still have a moan about it is beyond me!
Great RESULT yesterday...but ball retention yesterday was aweful. Too often we relied on the hoof.
Opta stats say that only Bolton and Stoke have less successful passes than us. I know we like to pla ythe direct game and counter-attack, especially away, but I think the passing stat highlights something fundamentally wrong
Gabby did nothing yesterday...until 93.30 minutes - and an a assist for a winning goal isn't a bad return for a day's work
I watched the game on TV. There is no way you can judge a midfield player properly if you are not at the game. Damian you say Milner is overpriced - of course he is but that's what it took to get him. He is in the team for his workrate - that's obvious. Like NRC he is a good honest 100% Englishman and they cost big bucks but are gettable (because they are not world class and the big teams don't want them). That is the route we have taken as a squad and that's why we are fifth.
Yesterday has to be taken in the context of the Newcastle game (a similarly error strewn defensive showing) where the only difference was lady luck. It was as stupid to go overboard then as it is now.
cheers keefvilla
mans lethal.
I agree with JonnyW im glad milner's here he does a great job and yesterday showed he it, we were under quite a lot of pressure from everton with their constant attacks we got extremely outplayed in the 1st half and very lucky not to go in behind, the second half was pretty much all everton freekicks and corners galore but it was themselves that made 2 big mistakes and Young got 2 big goals he really needs to stay in that position as a striker
Our defence was very dodgy at times if ash/milner wern't helping out cuellar/l young whom i thought were looking a bit uncomfortable then we could have been chasing the game ourselves
Laursen for me was man of the match he saved us with endless clearing and set up the 3rd goal he got up after it was 2-2 looking gutted as hell, still kept the faith (i didn't) knocked it on for gabby to pass to young and that was that
Did anyone see after the game mon on the pitch calling ashley a genius, it made me think what a fool i am saying sell young i must have been dilluded that day or high on oxycotton.
We got the points just now we have to break bolton down and hopefully build off this game just as long its not 0-0 again i'll be happy, confidence must be high now the 1st 34 and the last 12 seconds nice
Reply to Villa_Chris:
Are you you the love child of damien and vogra?,dont forget your parents arnt always right
Hear what you're saying Kenbodia - but I reckon we've had more thrilling games under MoN than any manager we've had since BFR.
I'll probably get shot down in flames for saying this, but I'd rather watch us play than 95% of the premier league. At times it ain't for the purist, but bloody hell its entertaining (see Chelsea, Spurs, Blackburn, Boro away last season, Everton, Wigan this season etc etc).
And disagree re: gabby. he worked his socks off yesterday. He is almost the perfect player for the lone forward role.
Reply to talusmanvillafan:
Ha ha no, im afraid not Taulusman.
Its a fact that Barry isn't the quickest of players...is't it?
If all we're expecting from our right winger is hard work and graft then we might as well just play NRC there. At least he has got some pace.
the two teams played the same formation so why where we under so much pressure for most of the game? did we score too early and went about trying to protect our lead or have everton got better players and we got lucky because to be honest i think it was a smash and grab victory.
whos job was it to mark fellini as he won every header or did damian just not notice these little things
AK I think Milner shows more discipline than NRC simply because he is happy in that position. NRC tends to wander a bit but I agree there's not that much in it - neither are going to get you many goals. How long before we see Sidwell on the right?!
Reply to AVMark:
To be honest it probably doesn't help to have Cullar as a right back behind him. Nothing has really changed from last year. All our danger is coming down the left wing. All 3 goals scored yesterday came from this position and i think nearly all our chances againest Fulham came from the left wing as well. This a why we are not beating weaker teams at home. MON needs to get the 2 full back positions sorted in Jan and to be honest i just don't see Milner being a success for us on the wing. As stated above he just doesn't have the pace or skill to be a winger. Very honest player though.
Definately a smash & grab victory with a unpredictable ending
Lescott is a big villa fan and we could put in a cheeky bid in the summer for him to replace knight or as laursen's backup he didn't play til the whistle yest and it cost them unlucky or Arteta (our jan playmaker) the guy is a top class passer we need him for sure i think he is cup-tied for uefa though or ineligible so we'll just use him in league til summer
Other teams are gonna want our players so we need to get theirs first and no more squad players (ie.Doyle) please? Class players only
Id like to see the likes of Glen Johnson and Wayne Bridge as our full backs. I wonder with Pompy's current finances they might be willing to part with him this Jan?
Reply to ak_27:
He gave us hard work, graft and an assist.
More than Ronaldo gave Man Utd Saturday.
Reply to Goldie7:
yeah - selling Ash would be madness he is qualty - 50/50 as to whether he was going to play, got kicked all night but kept going. Strength, heart and skill plus pace - we could never replace him with a player as good and willing to come to VP at the moment no matter.
Let's dare to dream - in 3 years time with Ash and Gabby at peak, along with Davies, Fonz, Little Brad, a host of maybes from the youth team (Steiber, Brannan, Collins), a couple of old heads still here (Laurson, Cuellar, Freddy) and a couple who come good (Milner, Reo Coker??) + some top signings enabled by consistently being top 6 and runs in he UEFA and we might just be a top side
LINK+2+3+Aston+Villa+Highlights watch it
Reply to _AP68_:
Maybe you have to take the fact they are the home team and have 30k fans willing them on,or have you thought our tactics were to bring them onto us and hit them on the break.Smash and grab i think not, we took the lead twice and kept on to the end of the game and deserved the win.
This is interesting.... we keep goin on about our RM berth
LINK
Reply to AVFCBlog:
sorry mate but i disagree with your comment he`s woth £12mn.ok lately he hasn`t done brilliantly but he just needs time to gel with the team.
bring on the top 4!!!!!
And another...
LINK
Sorry for the Routledge love all of a sudden but it got me thinkin when people have been saying Milner has got no pace or skill (which I actually disagree with). This was out of another match report.......
"It was worth the entrance money to watch Wayne Routledge produce the kind of magic that David Blaine, David Copperfield and Paul Daniels combined couldn't live with. Whether it was his keepy uppy deep in defence to beat two men, his dribbling and side steps going inside and outside player after player who were made to look like static cones on a training ground or his audacious cross using his left leg coming around his standing leg that Bothroyd just missed converting with a near post header, he was unplayable and majestic."
Reply to Villa_Chris:
It looks as if he might be getting his confidence back. Still its hard to know if he is in MON's plan anymore because he did fail to get in the team when he was the only right winger in the whole club for over 6 months.
Reply to ak_27:
Yea you're right. I think this loan will do him the world of good, and who knows, you might see him back at Villa Park again one day in the starting 11
Just thought I'd let you know, Damian, that I really appreciate these PMP articles of yours. With your opinion and player ratings, it gets even better. Keep it up, man! =)
UTV!
great result yesterday and im just as happy as the rest of you,but now that i think of it after a good few beers everton had one striker fit who i believe to be their fourth choice( correct me if im wrong) so really and truly we should of coped a lot better instead of being bombarded for 90 mins.yet another 90th min goal leaked which is really beggining to **** me off. if ash gets injured we are nothing everything we do comes from the left.
get michael owen in jan hes the auality we need and he will be cut price if we get heskey or doyle i will be insulted. owen would be great if we could keep him fit...
great result,mediocre performance... thank god for ash and laursen.... utv
We were lucky yesterday. Got rewarded for the same woeful tactics that cost us in the Emirates last season. We are able to pass the ball, we have shown this against teams like Man U. 9 games out of 10 we would have been punished for our unmethodical performance yesterday, and if MON doesn't see that we are in serious trouble.
This is your last call to enter the AVFCBlog.com Caption Competition to win a home or away Villa shirt. Follow the link, read the question and I advise reading the thread as a clue to enter correctly as I will only take the first answer. This is a genuine competition and closes at midnight tonight..Good Luck
LINK
I don't like Bandwagons but I'm going to hitch a ride on this one. I can understand you (Damian) not thinking a player is good enough but it does seem unjustified in Milner's case. Agreed, £12m was over the odds by x distance but we paid more than £3m for Knight and Harewood for god's sake! And he's still only twelve.
I reckon you must have caught him in your wife's wardrobe or something.
sometimes it does my head in about some peoples constant moanin how many times over numerous years have u seen mufc deserve to lose and then go up the other end of the park and score in the 93rd minute and that is accepted. In football u need the rub of the green or in mon case the luck of the irish. Its abou time we had some luck and with this will come trophies and a top 4 place. Its in our hands now so lets buy good quality in the jan market. UTV
Reply to AVMark:
Right on the money, Mark. I do wish Damian could see this. £12 mil is what the Milners of this world cost. O’Neill has to build a top four team with players that the top four clubs/London clubs/Man City don’t want.
You should all be on notice for this for the coming transfer window: with, amongst others, Arsenal and Man City desperate for top four quality and money no object, Villa’s chances of acquiring this type of player are slim. Very slim. These two clubs could well end up fighting it out between themselves for fourth place. We may have to be content with sixth.
And guess what? I don’t give a damn. I know that, with O’Neill, we’ll get there in the end. If Man City end up in the top four, what kind of achievement will it be? No one will respect them – they’re just a rich Arab’s toy. It’s all about the struggle. The greater the adversity and hardship, the more merit is in the victory. They’ll talk about Martin O’Neill’s Villa for the generations to come
Damo, Milner has his limitations going forward because he’s isolated. He’s forced to work in partnership with a right full back who is basically a centre half. Cuellar doesn’t have the pace and the guile to complement Milner’s ability. Get L Young back on the right and you’ll see Milner flourish.
Does any player have a bigger heart than Laursen? Come to think of it, does any human being?
I was there and here are my thoughts.
LINK
I've got to go with Damian on this one.
The whole team defended solidly, although I would suggest that Barry didn't really fancy the physical nature of the game. He seemed to be pretty shaken by an early tackle and was moaning to the ref about lack of protection.
If all we expected from Milner was a Reo-Coker, I'd take Coker every time. Milner is meant to be a winger, but when he gets the ball at his feet out wide with one on one I am absolutely certain that he will never beat the man.
I thought Petrov played pretty well.
Young's winner yesterday has had me smiling all day long and i'll go to bed tonight still smiling. Is anyone going to Hamburg next week? I'm in a group of 22 Daventry Villans going on the 6.30am flight from Stansted. The wife can't work out why i'm more excited about that than xmas. I'm glad i'm not her life must be so empty without Aston Villa in it!
Damian, i think you are an easy target because to tell it how it is, not just blindley towing the party line like some sites & fans.
Where is the passion & desire to want the best & to be the best. Lets not just accept second best.
Milner is a waste of £14m ask our chairman if he thinks £1m is a drop in the ocean. He is a long way off being our best player & i agree its not his fault he was our most expensive but the fact is, He IS.
I would have liked James as a squad player for £4-5m tops, he is an honest lad that will work for you, but I think everyone was sick of Dols catch phrase.
£14m could have been better spent.
nan i was there too all the way from paris
hit arkles boozer the game was great behind the blurred bulmers eyes
great weekend out in scouser land
i agree young back to right back
barry to left back
gardner in midfield
As for the Hare, i can see little difference in his performances & James they are on the same rund of the ladder
Ryan Jones
Posted 07/12/2008 at 18:07:31
Report abuse
I wish we were playing away today, that would mean the team bus had a chance of crashing and kill the fucking lot of them. I’m sick to fucking death of these highly paid ponces constantly letting us down. Basic fucking errors, every fucking game. What's so fucking hard about the basics of defending that these cunts can’t understand? Fuck the lot of them, they can burn in hell for all I care now! ON EFC BLOG lol
Milner was pretty average. I agree he's a hard worker, but working hard over 90 minutes doesn't neccessarily translate into having a good game. You can work plenty hard enough without any end product, as Milner often does.
Milner's like a player from a couple of decades ago, a good old fashioned plain footballer. He doesn't have a skillset that suites one particular position - he's not fast enough or a good enough crosser to be a winger and he's not a good enough finisher to be a striker. He'd probably make a decent central attacking-midfielder I reckon.
He might be a temporary answer to our right-sided problem but I don't really want him there for good.
i love all the massive villa fans comming on and slating milner because he cost 14 million. well die hards its well documented the lad cost 12 million so i have to start to doubt whether these so called villa fans go to the games if they cant even read papers and get their facts rights
Mornin people
Just watched this on Youtube, you'll have to have a look if you haven't already, it brilliant!
LINK
Reply to Villa_Chris:
Chris
That was funny.
59. vivavilla86 Wrote: | 08.36GMT | Dec 9, 2008
Milner was pretty average. I agree he's a hard worker, but working hard over 90 minutes doesn't neccessarily translate into having a good game. You can work plenty hard enough without any end product, as Milner often does.
I think working hard over 90 minutes is a fantastic asset, and one which some supposedly superior players don't do. I believe it was MILNER who layed the ball off for SIDWELL to score and put in some good challenges throughout a largely scrappy match. (adapting to the conditions I think they call it).
If MON and England recognise his qualities, then the lad obviously has something to offer. BARRY is not exactly dynamic, and would suggest he is quite old fashioned in his play. He certainly hasn't got any pace. MILNER has some pace and is adept with both feet.
I doubt whether even MON knows what his best position is, but when he does, I'm sure we'll see alot more of him as his confidence grows with each game. I like his attitude and passion during games. This is the kind of fighting player we need at AVFC.
Reply to vivavilla86:
I'd agree with you on that. I think MON in the end will see he's probably better in a central role, much like he realised with Barry when MON first came to the club.
If we get Valencia, expect to see him on the right and perhaps Milner moving in centrally or something.
AVMark
So we agree he is overpriced, good and then you go on to say none of the top four wanted him - that's my main concern. Why spend so much money on player that none of the top four wanted? There is a reason and I suspect that is why we may scrape a toop four place with some of these players but we're actually going to need better to stay there.
The holy grail for many seems to be getting top four. For me, it's actually something else and if I write it I'll only get abused. But on the money we spent on Nigel Reo-Coker, Marlon Harewood and Milner - we could have got a player that every top four club would have happily accepted/wanted. BUt again, that's easy for me to write in hindsight.
churchil
basically same response to you. i know the players like milner cost £12mn. but i'm not happy accepting top five/six, maybe scraping top four then not doing it again for a few seasons.
sure, we might get in then we might go spend huge sums of cash on the players to keep us there and try to kick on to the next level - if we do then the likes of milner won't be included - too expensive to fight for a bench place but young enough to sell.
look - fantastic result at the weekend but i think most will agree that milner and barry were not at their best, which is why i wrote:
Certain players didn't perform but we can't expect every player to play a great game every week. The point of having a team of players is that those match winning performances get spread about and we've got to hope that soon, more of those players start having better games more regularly.
Fatkev
It's nice that occasionally that is recognised. We don't just copy and paste the official club news and look for traffic. It's opinion, debate and open discussion.
I banged the drum about O'Leary from almost day one and got stick for it so I'm used to this and I can only ever be right or wrong a season or two after someone is replaced so it's something I live with
Churchill, AVMArk ..
Comments from Martin O'Neill today about James Milner - remind you of anyone?
O'Neill said: "James had to wait a while to get into the team but I signed him for the next four or five years - not the next four or five games.
Good to see a little bit of support for the boy. He's not Ronaldo for sure but a team needs guys like him. He reminds me a bit of Steve Copell. Not the most talented but intelligent, good positional sense, and 100% effort. Also like the guy who was at Barca - Giully. He helps people better than him to play. But I agree that he'll be better in a more central position as he cant run!
When I was a youngster, the manager of Villa signed a new keeper and centrehalf. Both struggled in their first season together and took a lot of stick from supporters. The manager told the fans to shut up and give them a chance to get used to playing for a club like Aston Villa, and he was convinced that they would come good.
The manager was Ron Saunders and the players were Jimmy Rimmer and Ken McNaught and we won the league and european cup.
Yeah that Youtube fanzone vid was funny as hell especially the end part 'everytime we are on sky i always forget to do the red button thing
I'll remember for these
Dec:
Wed 17 hamburg v Villa (Chan5 - 7.45pm)
Sat 20 west ham v Villa (Setanta - 5.30pm)
Fri 26 Villa v arsenal (Sky - 5.15pm)
Tue 30 hull city v Villa (Sky - 8.00pm)
JAN:
Sun 4 Gilly or Stockport v Villa (Itv - 1.30pm) we'll no tonite
Sat 10 Villa v west brom (Sky - 12.45)
Tue 27 pompey v Villa (Sky - 8pm)
Most of these are away so
Well said Keef. I remember people on here slating PETROV too. MON tends to persevere with the one's that do come good and gets shot of the chaff.
Reply to AVFCBlog:
er...given your view of Milner, I need a clue.
Damian. We have a difference of opinion. You believe that if we and one of the top four want a certain player we can sign him by chucking mad money at the player in terms of transfer fee and wages. Now let's say Barry was currently at Spurs and we wanted him. Do you really think he would come here instead of Liverpool? We live in an age of player power and the top one's just don't need the money, they want the medals.
You will say well offer a ridiculous transfer fee (well isn't that exactly what we did with Milner) but the player still has to want to come. Isn't it the case Berbatov was wanted by Man City? Don't you think they offered even more than Man U? he fact is Berbatov was going to Man U because that's where he wanted to go.
As regards your second comment about O'Neal's quote - Like Churchill I don't understand the point you are making.
Reply to Villa_Chris:
chris.....that was one of the funniest things ive ever seen!!!!!!,,,,right at the end 'look at me tan'...hahahaha!
Reply to maindog:
Thought people would like it...how couldn't you!!
I was killin myself laughin, especially that bit!!....Lokk at me tan!!
look*
Reply to AVMark:
I think he's either on about Petrov (who took a couple of seasons to become class) or A.Young (because he's you and for the future??)
young*
churchil, AVMark
our previous manager said the same thing about a certain player, not long after he signed
also, i'm not saying milner won't come good, what i'm saying is, he's plied his trade for enough seasons now and the top four didn't want him. i'm also not suggesting that we go after players playing well in the premier league that are generally wanted by the top four
i'm saying that if we broaden our horizons a little, we can get players just like james milner and better for less
look - we'll always have different opinions and i'm a huge fan of what martin o'neill is trying to do, in terms of building an english/british spine to the club but if we were to look overseas and try to unearth rawer/younger talent, it might be that we actually find the next best thing
£12mn. is a lot of cash for a player and while it isn't my money and we can have no complaints about where we find ourselves right now - i think most would accept i'm more than happy with where we are - i dont think martin o'neill looks hard enough for players and maybe if he were to take a few more risks, they might be rewarded
let me put it to you another way; we'll finish top 6 this season - maybe we'll get fifth or even steal 4th, but to do better the season after, we're going to need better players and if you were to look at the starting 11 - which ones would you replace?
Damian, if and when we do finish fourth and qualify for the champions league, we will guarantee bigger revenue and be able to attract the better players. Until then we wont be able to compete with Chelsea and Man Utd to sign the best.
So MON signs good young talent that he believes he can get the best out of and turn into excellent players, such as Davies, Sidwell, Ash Young and yes - Milner.
"i'm saying that if we broaden our horizons a little, we can get players just like james milner and better for less" - I think it's probable that what MON was looking to achieve and what you are talking about are light years apart. We won't break into the top four by competing on technical ability. It's just not a level playing field. We can however do it the way Everton did - a simple game plan and bloody minded slog.
keefvilla
2 summers ago there people saying on here 'we have to have european football' to attract better players, now you are saying it has to be champions league. what did manchester city offer robinho?
okay, thats not a great example - because it's cold hard cash - my point is, when we do get champions league football and if we get knocked down into the uefa cup - which is possible - they'll be people coming on here saying that we then need to be getting past the first group stage to get the quality players
all i'm saying is, we can create excuses/positions for every scenario. what is wrong with wanting a little more, actually what is wrong with demanding it?
AVMark
doing it the Everton way is great, but like i said above - the holy grail for me isn't finishing 4th for one season - it's breaking into the top four, disposing of one them and kicking on - we might do it this season but to be sure, we're going to need better players
look at our starting 11 and just think about which ones you'd replace to try and sustain a top 4 finish .. i bet you you'll have atleast 2 players on the list
The main criticism of Milner is his crossing and assisting in creating chances. Milner has 4 assists this season, the same as Ash Young and Bentley and 1 more than SWP.
Bentley was the player that we were all getting excited about signing in the summer, myself included. He has made the most crosses of any player this season according to OPTA, 185 in total. 185 crosses and 4 assists, what does that tell you about the quality of his crossing?
missing the point there about milner coker etc... all costing so much and thet money could be used to buy top quality....say we did that with our small squad and the world star got injured in his first game what then get fined for not being able to field a team...no what mon has done by bringing milner coker etc... into the squad is to build a squad cement europe on regular basis and show what villa can do to attract the next level of players needed to progress ...then we compete with a contigency plan if top stars get injured.
squad a now will become squad b in a year and the milner barry thing will seem pointless you seem to live in the here and now when it comes to villa and in a small way i think you can see what villa are building but dont want to accept that its not your way of doing things just because we have the money to throw around doesn't mean we should without any sort of research
evolution not revolution will give us that bright future we all crave
keefvilla
it says that his crossing isn't great but lets spin that a little shall we, to demonstrate what i said was possible with each scenario.
martin o'neill has an ability to make some good players very good and some average players good - this is as close to a fact as possible in terms of a managers ability
my position on the milner/bentely debate would be that bentley is better than milner and therefore if martin o'neill is going to do the same thing, the chances are that bentely could become even better
so maybe bentley would have 6 or 10 assists had he come to us and not joined a club that is on their second manager already
we get so much more than crossing a damn ball into a box that none of our other players get near to any way with milner....
you forget the hard defensive work he puts into the team he drags oponents out of possition to open it up to our other players and will bleed for the cause can you see bently tracking back to help out midfield nevermind defence in game like everto or fulham....would he even turn up against teams like zalina or qpr etc.....
_Bob_
i fully see what martin o'neill is doing but what i'm saying is why pay £12mn. for 1 player that we've all seen play since 2002 and has never really done it week in week out when you could spend that on 2 players that might actually be better.
but to use some information posted above. are 4 assists really worth £12mn.?
okay - you can now revert to his work rate and never say die attitude - and then i'll rebuke that, so we could go round in circles so i'll not bother
i understand what martin o'neill is doing, i just think we all know what we're getting with milner and hand on heart, he's not a top 4 player - in my opinion
Damian,
MON tried to buy BENTLEY, but he wanted to go to the trendy lights of London. Birmingham doesn't offer the same lifestyle players so often want from a city. It is not always about football, which is why I'd rather have the likes of MILNER to start with, who want to play for AVFC.
Quite often, good players from overseas will jump at the chance to play for ant Prem club to put themselves in the shop window for other clubs. Eg TEVEZ, MASCHERANO. We want players who have a vision with us, not a stop gap. Teams that have thrown their cash willy nilly have got nowhere to date. Man.U etc will always be able to pull big players even when they win naff all, because of the pedigree and history of the club.
At present, we have no real pedigree to speak of, as we've won naff for ages. However, under MON (a pull in itself) we are starting to attract the more gifted players. He is progressing us nicely, as SAF did (with more pulling power) which took him 5yrs
If Milner was good enough he would have been called into the English Senior squad by now as he has played over 40 games for the u21. That says it all to me really. I understand people saying give him time and his confidence will improve but his pace won't or his skill levels won't. But surely we need another winger just to act as cover for Young or Milner so why not go for Valencia or maybe someone like Benyoun from Liverpool in Jan. I think then when one of these players are playing instead of Milner ye will see how average he really is.
Ipbopmalik
I'm not doubting that or suggesting otherwise - it was used as an example above by someone, so I just replied to it.
he may not be but he is a good back up player to that star you refered to in earlier posts
and to help you contradict yourself you said all the players we brought that are not top players that money could be spent on one top player not 12 million on two players as you just said then...
you also onece said webcam at the time wasnt worth 9 mil along with most others at the time......whats he worth now hes had a years or so to work and train...milner has been around alot loger as he started at 16 years old....you dont start in a top 4 team at the age of 16 without being good enough!
he has played alot of games and is still younger than webcam and has been bounced around abit by managers who dont know what they were doing! he has a chance to settle and learn now and progress so will you lay off him and give him the chance to!
if he dont work as the winger we need im sure with mons tinkering he'll find the best position for him...me ive seen him play as a striker many times and think he could be a good option there.
either way he is a villa player new to the club very young has more ability than you and i and is in the position hes in because of that and for that reason you should give him the opertunity to develope....in ayear or so if he is still at the same level the by all means i think everyone including me will join you in you point but for now support him not judge him1
barry you can feel free to rip the piss out of...lol
Reply to Ipbopmalik:
In order for these players to get their big moves they would have to be performing well at Villa and would we would probably make a big profit on these players when/if they moved on to a bigger team so either way Villa would win. I would rather this happened then say having to sell NRC or Milner in 2 years for half of what we paid for them which is what i believe we will be doing eventually. The cause of all this is MON insistance in buying over priced average British players instead of having a better scouting system operating on the continent.
As far as I'm concerned Robhino is the exception that proves the rule. You talk about silly money, even Chelsea baulked at it!
If I were looking to win the title there's probably 4 players max of the current crop I would keep. At the moment it doesn't apply. We HAVE to get champion's league football to attract top players.
Reply to AVMark:
Which 4 would you keep?
_Bob_
i'm not contradicting myslef - that is also possible and i did write that. for all that money and the money we pay in wages on those players - we could have got a real world class player - i'm just putting a different example across specifically focused on milner
as for me saying ashley young isn't worth £9mn (or whatever figure) i'd really like a link to where i said that because if i did i must have been really drunk. all i remember about when young signed was me phoning a buddy from watford and asking him his opinion and me repeating that.
i've even said here:
LINK
that i'd love him to sign when the rumours started and here:
LINK
when he did actually sign, i ven called it 'good business'
ak 27,
Can you tell me a team out of the top 4 who is doing this better than MON? I thought the idea was to buy players and keep them. It seems that you're suggesting to find gems (who have no intention of staying) then sell them on. Where's the logic in that?
Remember too, that MON has also put in bids for supposed better players, and at this juncture they have said "No."
Furthermore, IMO opinion, he has already bought gems like PETROV, ASH and JC who have helped to get us where we are now. Notably, they don't want to move because they get the plan!
Ipbopmalik
i think what ak27 is saying is that if you get a real gem from overseas (or wherever) and he has a blinding season and a united or chelsea come in for him - he'll want to leave anyway, even if we finish 4th, maybe .. but we dont know for sure
but we sort of know that milner isn't going to have one of those seasons where united or chelsea come in for him
again, i'm only thinking that is what ak27 is saying .. i'm not sure
Reply to Ipbopmalik:
You are the one that is making a huge assumption that young talented foreign players will only use Villa as a steping stone to bigger and better things ( i don't actually believe that)and my answer is that even if that is the case Villa would benifit which would probably mean get 4th.
As for which team is doing better none. So far that is as Man City will after Jan and chances are Spurs will as well as they posess a squad full of quality and now have a very good manager). They might not be ready to push for 4th this season but they they will for next year so now is when we have to make a real push for 4th if possible. And that means buying better players then the average types like Milner and co.
ak 27,
I've based my remarks on facts that have happened in the premiership in recent years. I think it's a risky business, and one which hasn't brought dividends to teams out of the top 4. MON tends to buy tried and tested, boring but successful.
HUNTELAAR,BENTLEY,SANTA CRUZ,SAVIOLA,HENRY,BOSINGWA...have all said "No." I don't think players of this quality will continue to say no though. Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea have had continental managers with huge financial backing, thus allwing them to throw cash at any player they so choose, and/or have more clout in the european market.
The fact is, MON has brought this club in to the 21st century and people are taking notice. Even Lawro has begun regularly praising our efforts. I'm looking forward to January, as I believe one or two of these golden signings will come to fruition.
Reply to Ipbopmalik:
Liverpool and Arsenal dont have huge financial backing do they?!?
Ghosthunter
The whole Bentley thing was brought up by someone else - I only followed on with it. I am also giving Milner a season. a season for him to help us get into the top 4 and you never know, he might even get one more after that - doens't mena i still don't think we could have gotten better
things change and so do players, but as someone above said, he's not all of a sudden going to develop lightening speed and as a winger, that is sort of what you want - could you have seen milner score that third goal against everton?
as for that rule about paying whatever - i stand by it and martin o'neill has done it. that doesn't mean martin o'neill doesn't make mistakes and it also doesn't mean that i wont say, at the end of this season or next, that martin o'neill made a mistake
AK - Friedle, Laursen, Ashley Young, Barry.
But why should MON gamble our chances of getting 4th all on giving Milner a year to prove himself? Surely we need another winger as back up right now anyway as we only have 2 in the whole club(not including Routledge as he couldn't get on even when their no other RW in the club). So we should be bringing in at least 1 winger in Jan, like Valencia for eg. and at least have an option. What happens if Milner gets inj or even worse Young?
Lets try this another way.....
£12million for one James Milner or £12million for two Bosko Balaban's??
The thing with young foreign players that niobody has heard of is they often turn out like the Balaban's of this world!! Very rarely do you find a true Ronaldo like star for pennies.
I personally would rather spend £12million on one over priced hard working grafter used to the Premiership(ie Milner) than two or three mediocre unproven foreigners that are only her to put themselves in the shop window!
And what a price they paid for Keane – £20mil if memory serves - and he can’t hold down a regular place
Timmy_Ra
You are spot on. There is a risk, a much bigger risk than buying a Milner type player - but sometimes, not every time, those risks have to be taken and sometimes, not every time, those risks pay off.
Villa-Chris,
Over recent years, Liverpool and Arsenal have always had huge financial backing, plus they have the pedigree to pull players from here and abroad. That's why BARRY wanted to move to Liverpool.
ak-27,
I don't think MON is gambling anything. He is doing what he does best and sticking to it. I will start worrying about his ethos when we're in SPURS position towards the bottom of the table, or showing no signs of progress. Interestingly, SPURS have become more stable since REDKNAPP has arrived.
Rumour has it, that he is looking to buy VALENCIA in any case. Where do you think he will go if any of the top 4 go for him? You're only conjecturing that gambling with star buys will bring success and Man.City and Spurs will shoot up the table. Lets face it, neither could get much worse.
He will be bringing in new signings in January and the summer. My guess is, he'll keep the good and get rid of the ROUTELEDGE'S etc.. Steadily improving.
maybe just maybe mon got knocked back on all his big signings and with all the villa fans demanding a big signing he paid over the odds for milner to apease the crowd knowing we all liked milner the last time he was here
Ghosthunter
For you I'll change my tone, but in return if he has a poor game, it would be nice if someone brought it up.
But in my defence, I said in my original post that it's about a team game and that the point is you're trying to create a team of players that can, individually, win you matches or turn matches.
Maybe and I fully accept this as a possibility, we're yet to see Milner do it and when he does, it may start to become more regular.
My tone with Barry has changed as of late - I still don't think he's what we need as the perceived playmaker in the top four, but I've relazed a little on him.
I think we can all agree on one thing. I have been going down the Villa since our Third Division days. In all the time since we have NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, I repeat, NEVER made a sexy signing. The one player that everyone wants even if it's a bit of a gamble e.g. Gasgoine to Spurs as opposed to the full Monty.It would be nice, please God if I see that day at least once before I depart this mortal coil.
AV Mark,
You are going to hurt King Carlos's feelings!
Reply to AVMark:
So who would be your "sexy signing"?
Reply to Ipbopmalik:
Im really not talking about star buys but there is a bracket of quality players that we could have attracted to villa over the last 2 years (players top 4 wouldn't go for but would have improved our team) if we had done enough to entice them here (paying going wages) or if MON had his finger on the pulse in the transfer market. For example Distan, Defoe, Diarra, Glen Johnson, Bale, SWP, Modric, Cisse (on loan would be a decent sub to bring on). I put all these in the bracket of players we could have got but we seem to still buying players from the lower levels that a mediorce prem team with an average budget should be looking at , eg.NRC (West Ham sub), Milner, Knight, Shorey, Harewood(West Ham sub), Luke Young, These are players that Boro and Blackburn should be trying to get not Villa being backed by a billionaire owner.
Reply to AVMark:
In the day i was really excited by the arrival of Merson, Dublin, Angel, Carbone.
ak-27,
DEFOE,BALE,HUTTON,SWP DIDN'T WANT TO GO TO VILLA, DESPITE BIDS BEING TABLED. We got ASH instead of DEFOE, DAVIES in place of DISTIN....
Ipbopmalik
While there has been no comment and there is likely to never be any comment on this, I'm more inclinded to believe that Defoe did want to come and that Martin O'Neill didn't want to pay his salary demands ... can't comment on the others.
Reply to Ipbopmalik:
At the time MON went for Knight instead of Distan (Davies came in at end of window). Also the reason why Defoe didn't go to Villa was because we weren't matching his pay demands not because he wanted to pick Pompy over Villa. Same can be said for Diarra and as far as i know we did not make any attempt to go for Bale, Hutton. Not sure about SWP but if we really wanted him then we should have gone and offered him the big wages that would have enticed him to VP.
Timmy_Ra - Honestly mate the list would be endless. I mean look at the list just supplied by AK "Merson, Dublin, Angel, Carbone" - no offence but is that the best? I would say the closest we have come was Collymore but let's face it he was a busted flush and we got ripped off. If we had bought Collymore from Notts Forest that WOULD have been sexy! Overall I would say from the past my two choices would be Shearer or Ian Wright in their pomp. Guaranteed goal machines.
Reply to AVMark:
I always wanted us to sign JJ Okacha. That guy was just magic.
Reply to AVMark:
Ok, lets say you have £20million and can offer max £75k a week in wages. Who would you sign in todays market?
I can see Young doing a winger to striker thing in a Henry style. Think about it. Nice hmmm?
Timmy_Ra anyone coming for that much will command more than £75k per week.
Ronaldinho sponsored by Nike as part of a stadium renaming deal on £300k a week - I guess that might add bums to seats at the Villa Nike Stadium. Back to reallity maybe we could get Michael Owen and Heskey assuming (Liverpool aren't bothered) - what a shot in the arm that would be for the second half of the season?
dean saunders was a good signing but mcgrath was the best in my time supporting the villa
offer 6mil for owen, 4mil for heskey and personally i think we could do with a 3rd striker as between carew and owen the injuries will be a problem maybe start to use delfouneso more. and with bouma coming back i think we will be ok for defenders maybe a player that will add another kind of attacking attribute instead of pace
Alexandre Pato is a huge player for the future but way out of villas league but we can always dream
Reply to Timmy_Ra:
Karim Benzema
you think we would get benzema for 20million kieran dream on maybe 60million
well if you can get torres for cheaper than 60 i think we can get benzema
Damian
Defoe didn't want to come to Villa because he wanted to live in London still.
ak_27
Davies and Knight signed at the same time - Davies was injured thats why he didn't make debut til quite a while after.
Are people saying Milner is good as a defensive midfielder?
If so he was a wasteful buy because we appear to have a few of those already.
I thought we bought him (and thought it was good money and a good signing)as an attacking/wing option on the right. If this is what he was signed for he IS doing a poor job and DOESN'T at the moment look like he has been worth the money.
He looks frightened with the ball and relieved to be chasing back and tackling - like a few of our midfield players.
(Maybe that is why we tend to give the opposition the ball for 80 minutes?)
ak_27 SWP went to Man City because he was advised to by Ian Wright
damian you crack me up, in lots of your summer posts you said things like you didn't care how much we paid for a player because it wasn't your money (£20 mil for rightback), though you seem to mention how much he cost in every post now, i love milner and his workrate, and according to this he was wanted in the summer by one of the top four ok for less than we paid, but hey its not your money what do you care.
LINK
keefvilla
not what i was told but it wasn't defoe who told me nor was it martin o'neill so it doesn't matter.
Danzel
Did you read only what you wanted to read or did you read everything on this page?
I'm guessing you picked out what you wanted because that link you're sending me to is all speculation.
What I said during the summer was that if Martin O'Neill wanted a player he should pay the price and not moan about prices - it is what the game is all about and, if you read above, you'd see that I stand by that 100%.
What you would have missed, seeing as you clearly didn't read the page, is that I also said something along the lines of; but Martin O'Neill can make mistakes also.
Just because he paid over the odds for the player, doesn't mean it isn't a mistake.
But let me ask you a question; would you pay £12mn. for Marlon Harewood? Go think about that for a few minutes and when you can answer it, come back and let us all know.
Ghosthunter
Thanks for the link - I have to tidy it up (as in put £ signs), but what I've said, as a fan of Baros, was simply that if we're paying £10mn. for Young then we should be getting more for Baros.
OR to copy and paste (with £ sings added) and then make my point:
Young might be a good prospect but he's not worth £10mn if Baros is only going to Lyon for the rumoured £5mn. If that rumour turns out to be true Young is worth £1.5mn.; let the London teams waste money.
What I'm saying is highlight the word 'if' in the first sentence and it sort of then emphasises what I trying to get across.
But, you know what, I did get it wrong. If Baros is worth £5mn. then Young is worth £20mn., if not more.
So, I hold my hands up.
if i remember rightly ghosthunter it was luke that posted that article not damian
i do recal somewhere that you made a comment when we first signed young that he didnt look worth the money we paid even though you wanted him before he signed and that you were willing to give him time to progress like you now have with milner even if hes not your favourite type of player, but i will defend you on that comment in the link is not from you.
end of day young came good weather you me the drunk in the park or the dogs backside wanted him and milner will be given time by mon and weather you me or anyone else likes it or not we dont get to choose1 theres so much i could say about your opinions towards certain players which could contradict you and me and everyone else and i see that you as the article writer and blog host have the right to comment about what you think and what you dont to get people to have decent honest open debates on here so im leaving it as that and we'll agree to disagree on weather a price tag should be used to judge a player who plays for us....
Controversy Creates Cash....or posts so ill leave it there!
I still want somebody to tell me what they EXPECTED from Milner and what we are GETTING from Milner are the same thing.
Would you play him ahead of Coker long term on current performances?
That I believe is Damian's point. The money is a smoke screen.
It actually reads like mine, so I'll take responsibility for it, although when we transferred all the posts over from the old site everything has gotten put down as me.
I will say, that this place is all about debate and opinion, heated or not and there is every chance that I'll slag off Young one day or even Sidwell or Davies (my three favourite players at the club right now) - but it is done in the heat of the moment and if they've really cocked up - which they/we all do do sometimes.
We are also all entitled to change our opinion and I've even suggested on a couple of occasions recently that my opinion on Barry is getting more relaxed as I am starting to see him with a more defined role when we play five in the middle, but I will stand by my opinion on him and what it has been and I still need more convincing.
My opinion on Milner though is my opinion right now. It can change and it may change, but it will take convincing and not just one or two games.
Gillingham in the FA Cup in Jan. Not so bad for us I think.
dont think anybody including me disputed that point what i was personally challanging damo on was why he keeps going on about his price tag when he has a bad game.
he our player now hes younger than the lot of us in a brilliant position in life that we could only dream of because he's got raw talent that got him there....he has had a bad start to his career here but theres more players who have turned up at villa and equally had bad starts to careers but for people to jump on his back for settling into a team expecting the price tag to determin how well he will do from the off is unfair on the lad.
we all have our opinions and to a degree i agree with damian about the point hes tried to make but on the other side of it damos also got to understand some of the other peoples points for sticking up for the lad and letting him have his chance to show us what hes capable of! we cant tell the future, he could be a world beater or he could just continue to plod along as hes done for the last few seasons at the toon!
we need to support our players whom ever they are and whatever they cost not berate them as soon as the ink reaches the paper!
Nan_was_a_fan
for me we are getting exactly what we expected, which was why i wasn't that pleased with the signing
again this is only opinion
I posted it, but I didn't flatly say 'Young isn't worth the money', it was used to demonstrate something else - taken out of context a little Ghosthunter
But, he is our player and we can all hope that he turns good and maybe he will.
But without opinion, we'd all be very boring people and I for one, with my drinking problem and a trace of Irish, have a bloody strong one and I don't mind fighting my corner.
Reply to AVFCBlog:
reeds more like lukes mate thers not enough bable in it to be your lol!
anyway i share you point with milner not living up to what we expected from him given the games we have seen him involved in in the prem over the last few years but i also think that is because mon is using him differently he does lack confidence it seems, but my opinion is based on what ive seen of him in person as well as on screen not a judgement on pricetag...
if you want to talk about pricetags and pointless worthless players who are not worth the tag is harewood, knight, shorey
howerver good or bad they maybe to somepeoples opinion they havent fulfilled their pricetag agreed by contract that is something to debate over!
To be fair you knew more about the player than me Damian.
I was under the impression that he may provide some flair on the right, that was why I was pleased with the signing. I obviously did not see enough of him when he was last with us.
WTF...Some players will be better than expected, some will be worse and some exactly as expected. Yang Yang WTF...It will always happen...Fricking get over it...Blah blah
I just wasted 5 minutes reading that tittle tattle..And where did it get anyone..?
Fuck me....Even I got my Ying Yang fucked up..!! Think I better stay away from the ale..!
isnt yang yang that panda there trying to mate with ping pong or something like that lol
I don't really understand why people are on Damian's case.
I think that Barry has been poor in the league for months now, and that both Sidwell and Petrov look more composed and purposeful.
I also think that Milner has been disappointing. He works hard, but then again so did NRC, and we signed him to provide a more potent attacking threat than Nigel.
I think that MON has seen something in Milner that he saw in Young, and trust he is worth being patient with. I still would have preferred Wright-Phillips though, who went for less.
Reply to Nan_was_a_fan:
so can be said the same of petrov.. please remind me of his position when we first signed him.
no i wouldn't pay 12 mil for harewood, but i would for a 22 year old whos got almost 200 Premier League appearances already and runs up and down the pitch all game and i think he's got three assists in a villa shirt already this season, and this is his settling in period, and he's not getting wages of players like swp or bentley, so he's probably better value for money.
anyway i wouldn't pay more for barry than we did for sidwell, but players prices are strange these days and based on lots things, wages age and form.
Reply to Timmy_Ra:
I have to agree with you there Timmy.
But i would also like to save the £ms spent on milner to put towards top quality.
I would be over the moon if we had got james for 4-5 but we paid too much.
I am sure Routledge could be a good as james
I think it's common knowledge that teams quite often have to pay over the odds for players in the present market. MON decided to pay 'over the odds' for YOUNG (unproven at top level at the time) and MILNER (young and proven and rated by many).
I think most of MON's have bore fruit. The panic buys (yes, he admitted being naive in the market) have been kicked in to the sidelines. Very few people on here rated LENNON when we were looking for a winger, it was SWP or BENTLEY. They did not want to come to Villa. I reckon LENNON would have cost about £5M at the beginning of the season cos his form and confidence were shite.
MILNER's head must be f****d during and after all the shenanigans at NUFC. He returns to VP to find people berating him cos he's not firing on all cylinders and his confidence is at a low ebb. I think the lad is steadily improving and has become more settled thanks to MON's utter belief in him. Can we not do the same?