Time for Martin O'Neill to ring the changes
Thursday, 08 January 09, 07:41 AM · Comments (144)
It would hardly be insightful of me to say Martin O’Neill doesn’t make many substitutions. It’s pretty obvious to anyone who has seen Aston Villa since he arrived.
It’s the reasoning behind his lack of substitutions that mystifies. Does he not trust anyone outside his starting XI? Tuesday night’s game against Hull saw just the one substitution, Gardner coming on for Sidwell in the 86th minute.
What sort of influence did MON hope Gardner would have, given that he had under ten minutes to get the pace of the game and then do something more than Sidwell had been doing?
Is it that he is terribly old school? I remember reading that when Roy Evans took over at Liverpool he expected everyone he put on the pitch to be able to do the ninety and he rarely made changes that weren’t through injury.
This, in the days O'Neill and Evans played, was reasonably easy to achieve, but today, where footballers at the top level have to be athletes as well as possessing great football skill, could be seen as a bit unrealistic due to tiredness and potential injury through fatigue.
I have found myself watching Villa and almost screaming for a change to the game and Tuesday was one of those times. Gabby looked totally outnumbered and the midfield, save for Petrov, were struggling to take control of the game.
Knowing what we know now is fine but if the result had been a draw or even worse, a defeat, how many of us would be blasting MON for not throwing on a player or two to attempt to win or, at the very least, change the game?
It is my belief that O'Neill has only got a limited number of players that he thinks are good enough or trustworthy enough for where Villa are heading and the rest are either still to fully prove themselves, like Delfouneso and Gardner, or purely there to be cover for injuries like Salifou and Harewood.
I also believe that players who have the necessary ability will be purchased this month and in the summer, to add to those fourteen we have. Hopefully then O'Neill will not be too hesitant to put on players he believes are the required quality.
Villa are fourth with a small squad from which O'Neill sees an even smaller number of players he trusts to represent the club at this level, so lets imagine if over the next two transfer windows quality signings are made and the young players get better?
Surely having someone like Charles N’Zogbia on the bench is a better alternative to having Salifou there?
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144 Comments · Add yours
100% agree. There have been so many games where Ive been shouting out (and the villa team crying out) for a substitution to be made.
If a player is clearly having an off day, MON should take them off. Doesn't matter if its one of the best players or not. A substitute needs at least 25 mins to make a good impact. Late subs such as the one you stated above are absolutely pointless. This is the ONE and only thing that annoys me about MON.
Bitch over...
i never thought about that being the reason for why he dosen't make subs. good post jonny. but he could just be trying to get the best out of young, gabby and milner by giving them a full 90 mins. i dunno but good post!
For reference - this was supposed to go up a few days ago - I completely forgot it was sent in. Sorry Jonny.
Good article Jonny, I also find myself screaming for substitutions during games. The Fulham game was another prime example where we so desperately needed a reshuffle but he doesn't appear to have any faith in the benched players. I don't think its healthy for the starting XI either, Sidwell, for instance, now knows he can swan around doing nothing with no danger of being replaced until the dying seconds!
How do any of the subs get a chance to stake a claim? Admitted, the vast majority of our subs aren't good enough to be regulars but there needs to be some incentive.
And any new signings this transfer window, who may arrive and start on the bench (as is common), will play all of 10 minutes between now and May unless we have a major injury crisis!
Having said all that, I wont moan too much because our second string is pretty awful with 1 or 2 exceptions.
"Does he not trust anyone outside his starting XI?"
Probably not, because most of them aren't good enough. Sorry but Craig Gardner is not a top 4 player and probably never will be. O'Neill sticks with his starting XI because they are the players most likely to get a result.
Reply to Christian:
I think Harewood would be in a different situation if he was involved more (as a sub) this season. Theres no doubt he makes an impact from the bench when we're struggling.....if he gets enough time. Fulham was a perfect example. We needed a big strong forward to bully the defence. Harewood would have fit the bill perfectly in the absence of big John.
Oh well, hope Marlon does well wherever he ends up.
Does it really matter when were winning games?
I think not.
Reply to HoofHearted:
No, it doesn't, but it does when your not winning games and wouldn't score if you played all night i.e. Fulham game
Reply to Villa_Chris:
Totally agree, I don't rate Harewood at all but there's definitely a time and a place for his services and the Fulham game was crying out for it.
I'm a bit worried about the baggies sitting deep like Fulham this weekend, and that wont let Ash or Gabby have much joy- we could be screaming for Harewood again (maybe for the last time).
Reply to Villa_Chris:
chris.. marewood has had his chance and thats it simple.. HE IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL BE. i do love your loyalty but you said you have a season ticket, so would have seen it for yourself
Just goes to show that some people are NEVER satisfied. Villa fans more so than anyone. If all we have to moan about currently is the manager's use of his substitutes, then we must be in good shape.
I'd argue that, although the game is undoubtedly faster than in MoN's playing days, the use of substitutes today is LESS important than it was. Why? Two reasons:
1. There aren't as many bad tackles/genuine injuries as you used to get in the 70s/80s.
2. Players are fitter now than ever before.
I'm firmly of the belief that you should keep you best 11 players on the pitch at all times. For reasons of continuity, for reasons of trust, and for reasons of ability.
Reply to David C:
Here, here.
Were doing the best we have for years and people still moan!
These players are being paid thousands of pounds a week, im sure they can run around a pitch for 90mins.
Why change a winning team?
Reply to HoofHearted:
most sensible statement ive read on this blog.
I think it's kind of agreed that we have a sh*tty bench of players to call upon, although some are desperately needed at times (Marlon v Fulham, Gardner quite a few times this season), but putting that aside, wouldn't it be useful to blood a few youngsters? Bannan and Lowry could've been given 10-15 minutes here and there a few times this season but instaed just watch from the bench, tbey don't even stretch and warm up!
Bu I disagree with the comments that Villa fans are always dissatisfied, we're over the moon at the moment and it does no harm to pont out a few constructive criticisms
Reply to HoofHearted:
to be the best you have to think the bestso thats why we constructivly criticise..
*point
Reply to HoofHearted:
We are not talking about changing the team we are talking about bringing on a fresh set of legs when the game needs it or that little bit more muscle up front we we're struggling to brake teams down. I am not a fan of Marewood but there have been many a game since JCs' injury when we have been crying out for him to come and give webcam and Milner someone to aim at in the box.
Do you watch the same games as me you fool , havn't we scored in the last minute in the last 3 games with the same team on the pitch so why change it ?
There's only one reason that we don't see many substitutions...We don't have enough quality players. After the 1st 11, we don't really have any top 4 standard players. MON plays his strongest team in the Prem, barring injury and that's correct.
What we need are top 4 players in this month so we have real strength in depth. If not, there is no way MON will be able to put out his best 11 players, cos they will be on the treatment bench, never mind the subs bench.
UTV
Its not about changing a winning team, its about making a change during a game.....when things aren't going so well.
If for instance, a player just isn't in the game and has gone missing, such as Sidwell on a few occasions this season, why keep him on?? Its worth putting a substitute on e.g. Gardner to see whether he makes a positive impact. If he doesn't, you still haven't lost out.
AP68- Yes
Reply to _AP68_:
AP68- Yes I realise he isn't the standard that Villa are now but for an impact player he hasn't done too badly for himself. Without some of his goals last season, we wouldn't have finished in Europe. Im loyal to him because he's Loyal to us- perfect professional, never moaned, has a heart of a lion.
Reply to leight75:
Spot on son.
I do wonder what some of these people on the blog watch?
Were never going to win every game, every team slips up from time to time.
Reply to Villa_Chris:
Why keep the players on who arent performing?
So they can make amends for mistakes they have made!!!
Wetre you at the Fulham game by any chance??
Isn't the fact that we are currently 4th proof that MON knows what he is doing? We are missing Carew, Laursen, Cuellar and Bouma. With these players fit our bench would suddenly look at lot better.
Chris take no notice what rob_h said on the last blog. Look at the old trout he's had his photo taken with.
Yeah i was highly frustrated too.
But what we have on the bench is usually rubbish so we should let the players that are on the pitch sort it out for themselves.
Reply to keefvilla:
Lol.....
Reply to HoofHearted:
We would'nt of scored in a month of Sundays in that game. I love MON (Calm down Keef!) but I was livid with him in that game. I wanted to run on and slap him! It says somethin when you've got the whole of the Holte singin.... '2 up front my Lord, 2 up front!' doesn't it?!?
wouldn't*
Jonny - the fact is we're doing really well at the end of games- I think we've scored more goals late on than anyone- so perhaps MON sticks with what he has because between them they always seem top muster something up? Ok, there are times when they don't but how often do subs have a real impact?
I kind of agree with MON's sub policy, a settled team will give their all. I believe we have a set of players who are being told that if they have a bad 70 minutes to go and prove themselves in the last 20. Hauling them off doesn't show alot of trust in them.
I realise we're short in a couple of areas but if we have a fully fit squad our bench doesn't look weak anywhere but up front.
Guzan
Cuellar
Knight
NRC
Sidwell
Harewood
Fonz
There's not many benches as strong as that outside of Man U and Chelsea.
I think all we're missing for now is another striker and maybe a creative midfielder to come in for Young or Milner. There's no point at this stage of our developement in having more than 20 'top 4 standard' players, we simply can't keep them all happy.
Who do we have on the bench that can change a game? This thread is ridiculous. How can you criticise MON for not making any subs when our bench is crap? Wait until we have decent reserve players before passing judgement. UTV
Damian is someone "ghost-writing" for you this year or did you make a New years resolution to lower the tone? This is the biggest load of claptrap yet.
Facts: - We are now referred to by Sky sports as the "late-show", we have the fewest injuries probably in the whole division and the smallest squad. I suggest you re-assemble these facts and come up with a more intelligent article.
Canella's agent confirms villa interest
LINK
i would only worry if we was struggling at the end of games, but for last 4 or 5 games we have got a goal in that time
I think a lot of you need to read the whole article, its like you have ceased upon one paragraph or particular line.
I'm not saying MON is doing a bad job, quite the opposite in fact, its just that on occasions he seems to stick with a gameplan thats not working and a sub would maybe change that.
I also agreed that the bench is poor and that i hoped when better players are bought they would be brought off the bench.
Does anyone want MON to make signings and then not use them?
Reply to Villa_Chris:
Solksjaer always used to do the business from the bench for Man Ure, but then he was a bit good. Our subs aren't, and that's the real difference.
I have definitely shared the frustrations in those games where we just don't look like scoring but I do understand where MON's coming from:
1) Jonny's good article gives MON's #1 reason: the example of Gardner is actually an exception - he doesn't normally bring someone on precisely because MON doesn't think a substitute is going to do a great deal more than a player who is a) already up to speed and b) considered better by virtue of being given a starting berth. The interesting question is less the one on why not sooner but why at all - slight knock or tactical? I assume the latter which pretty much meant that he was accepting the draw (we'd played badly and 1 point still took us into top 4) - when else has he done that this season to accept the draw? Rarely, if ever.
2) I think MON and team are pretty strong on fitness levels so there's a decent chance that our starting XI will not only last the distance but OUT-LAST the opposition, who as they tire might become more ragged or error prone. If that happens, he wants the top guys there to take advantage.
3) We've got a light bench. I know it is light but I actually think this is way behind the other reasons. I think if he genuinely valued changing personnel he would accept the risk of playing guys who were less consistent/capable. The one exception is, unfortunately, up front. Harewood has always played with passion but he's not as effective as JC and to me, plays a little selfishly (probably quite natural given limited opportunity).
In summary, expect a stronger bench but don't expect more frequent changes, other than when JC or Marlon's replacement are on hand to play Plan B effectively.
Sometimes, like in the Fulham game, bring on a big & strong forward with less ability is whats needed. It's about trying to change the dynamics of or play. Dont forget that if the team playing against you are having a good game, it just might not be your day. Changing the dynamics of the game i.e a substitute is a gamble but sometimes it can pay off. One thing we've learnt about MON...He doesn't like to gamble!
I’ve spent the last ten minutes looking at the wall. My mind is numb. Where does his drivel come from?
Others, thank goodness, have pointed out the obvious. We have become the most famous team in the cosmos for scoring late goals without changing personnel. The bench is desperately weak for strikers. But still you can’t let go. "O’Neill is wrong; O’Neill doesn’t know what he’s doing." I know you have a right to criticise but it has to be based on rational argument.
Jonny, don’t give up your day job.
odysseynumberfive - 'Solksjaer always used to do the business from the bench for Man Ure, but then he was a bit good. Our subs aren't, and that's the real difference.'
Yeah, thats pretty much what i was trying to say.
New article please!! We're all falling out over this one!!
Reply to vivavilla86:
craig gardner will be about as much a top 4 player as john o shea... great utility player, not particuarly amazing at any one thing... but where does o shea play again, oh yeah the best team in the world.
We need quality now, the likes of delfonosou and this new wonderkid we have signed arent likely to be figuring yet, but we cant buy quality to put on the bench. This is why i think the likes of owen, wont start always due to injury, but far more likely to put the ball in the back of the net than any other villa player, would be great
Anyone who thinks we don't need to make subs will change their mind when at the end of the season our players are nakard and we're just trying to keep up with the top 6, let alone get a place in it.
How many of United, Chelsea and Liverpool's players play every single game? The reason they win things is because they can rest big players and keep them fresh. We can't, and we will struggle if MON doesn't make more subs.
Just to throw a spanner in the works......
Remember the sub he made last season against Spurs? Came on, gave away a penalty and then went on to draw. It was a certain Marlon Harewood. Maybe this was the turning point for MON and his subs....
Reply to __AA__:
Even so, with all this talk of villa not having a good enough bench i still think MON is'nt gunna bye more than 3 players at the most and they will most prob be. ( 1 striker maybe someone like Benni Mcarthy or Darren Bent)( 1 attaking middfielder to pull the string's and make chance's like Arteta)(1 winger or wingback like Alan Hotton) thats what i think, VILLA 4 LIFE
Reply to Villa_Chris:
Didn't he also come on and score versus Liverpool later in the season with a cracking overhead kick?
this oughta lighten the mood.
LINK
Reply to JonnyW:
Yeah man1
Spot on Ghosthunter!
Why would he make changes to his best starting X1 when games are in the balance and bring on players who obviously aren't good enough for what we are trying to achieve at the minute. I've lost count of how many late goals we've scored in recent weeks without making changes so surely thats good management is it not??
Bloke who sits in front of me drives me mad screaming at MON to make changes when things arent going well but we have nobody on the bench to change a game!
Things may change when the squad is strengthened and yeah maybe then MON can make subs to change the game but at the minute subs can only really be made IMO if someone is injured, to give players a breather if we're a few goals up which we havent been lately, or to bring on some fresh legs to see a game out i.e. Garnder against Hull.
UTV!!!!!!
Reply to Ugly_Betty:
Im suprised he never dived out the car during the crash....
Thats odd I am sure Craig Gardner passed the ball to Young to cross the ball, which was bundled in for the own goal. If thats not taking part, what is ?
It's official there is no truth in the Canella rumour MON has denied on AVFC.com
Thats right, just look at them how you want to
Reply to villadam:
Just about to post that!
LINK
O'Neill has denied the Canella Link.
Jeez you fellas are quick.
its offical then nobody any where including the press have any idea what so ever of who we are going to sign. Its going to be a very long January
Thats odd I am sure Craig Gardner passed the ball to Young to cross the ball, which was bundled in for the own goal. If thats not taking part, what is ?
so as quick as the agents are making these stories MON is denying them. Although alot quicker with this one than that Upson shit.
Still hasn't denied that Jovanovic rumour yet so there might be some truth to that.
Reply to churchil:
Lol, totally agree.
The article is pretty pointless.
Reply to villadam:
trawling the web every day for some small glimer of hope of who we might sign then by the end of the day your back to square one not knowing anything.
But your are correct that romour has not been denied so might be something in it
rumour even
Reply to AVMark:
god setanta are truly awful with their estimations. who on earth is o'neill interested in ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh its driving me crazy
oops i didnt mean for that message to be a reply to AVMARK
gotta say good article.
but i believe and know MON would make subs if they were capable of making a real impact. And when you look at our bench you actually have to hide behind the sofa and hope that one of them doesnt come on! lol
But at the same time i agree/disagree! sounds odd i know
ermm saying that if we increase our squad depth/quality i dont think MON would hesitate throwing on players.
But yes I do agree against Hull was yelling at the Tv for Harewood to come on! cus we know he is our super sub! anyhow up the villa and hopefully a few additions!
Reply to Chiefy1:
Know exactly how you feel, but it is amazing how no knows what MON is up to in the markets.
Can't wait until saturday when I will have something to take my mind off the transfer window.
But at the end of the day I will be 100% behind who ever MON buys because in MON we trust
UTV
oh yeah btw, Villa vs WBA match preview:
LINK
Reply to villadam:
Thats the spirit! Keep grasping those straws!
on the official web mon has just denied he has had any contact with canella or his club so theres another rumour shot down
yes but would jovanovic cut it at this level its a risk???
Reply to thamutznutz:
I'll wager Gardner gets signed by someone like Fulham or Bolton long before he becomes anywhere near as important as John O'Shea.
some of his buys are so bad he cannot select outsde starting 11!
same old jan transfer window again, chance to take a step up and guess what, MON does not like jan scramble! every decent player link that gets you excited is dismissed
we need quality players, even the starting 11, while doing well, are not that exciting to watch, we have as much luck as skill at present, and that always runs out.
will prob end up with more bench warmers replacing the ones we have, if we pay any european scouts we should F....!! sack em!
diego and podolski now that would be orgasmic
I have got to agree with half the people on here - this is a pretty pointless thread. Martin O'Neill is a brilliant manager and knows what he is doing so if he doesn't want to use a sub thats fine by me.
Like other people have said on here, if a players had a mare for 70 minutes that doesn't mean he isn't going to score a screamer in the last minute to win us the game. MON trusts his players and I trust MON.
Everything people are saying on here is based on hindsight which MON doesn't have during the game. If anything, recent games have shown MON that keeping his first 11 on the pitch means we are probably going to score in the last few minutes.
Sidwell has been mentioned a lot on this thread for not pulling his weight but he has more class than Gardner and a habit of drifting into the box with nobody tracking him. When he finds his feet he will be a 10 - 15 goal a season midfielder. Lampard has games when he goes unnoticed but it doesn't stop him finishing with 20 or so goals every season and I see Sidwell as a similar player and so does MON.
If you took players off every game because you 'THOUGHT' they weren't pulling their weight then Michael Owen would never have played a second half in his whole career. He has about 5 touches a game but has still averaged 1 in 2 throughout his career because he is exceptional at his job. If we signed him people like Jonny would be screamed for him to be replaced by Marlon half way through most games despite the fact he is a living, breathing goal-machine.
Keep the faith - MON's the man to lead us to greatness
Reply to Fitzy_7:
I can't see the point of signing Podolski as we have pace up front in Gabby and the young Fonz as back up so I think that would be signing a player just for the sake of buying someone.
Now Diego could be that something a little bit special that we need although I can't see that happening without MON spending BIG to prize him away from WB who won't want to sell
sorry to spoil your orgasm
lol
Reply to villadam:
who would u like
Reply to Fitzy_7:
i would like kaka, villa, diego, messi,iniesta for a total 16 million and heskey to make it 20 million
Some ridiculous comments about Gardner, how the hell can anyone judge him yet when he's forever played out of position, he's a classic central midfielder, great right foot, cracking shot and will weigh in with seven or eight goals a season if given a run. He also works bloody hard and loves The Villa. As for not having as much class as Sidwell !!! do me a favour.
I would like Kaka and Torres.
More realistic I think going for Jovanovic and Defour would be good signings.
I like Jovanovic because he will give us something different in attack compared to Gabby and JC as he is quite happy to, and good at dropping short to play in that hole between the defence and midfield. He also has a good change of pace so shouldn't struggle with that side of things and finally he is 27 coming into the prime of is career so he is not some young kid we are taking a risk on and also he is not Heskey i.e. 2 year gap fill.
On to Defour now this kid made his debut in the Belgium league at 16 and has gone to play for country and captain Standard Leige he has a great eye for a pass, never looks rushed when on the ball and has that ability to just make things happen and at 20 years old him, Webcam, Gabby and Milner will be heart of the Villa attack for next decade
also both from the same club so they can help each other settle in
more realistically weel end up with doyle and barton
I wouldn't mind a cheeky bid for Joe Cole as there seems to be alot of unrest coming out of Chelski, Ambrovich is tightening the purse strings and big wants to buy a striker
sorry big phil wants to buy a striker
heskey as a short term option wouldnt be bad yes he doesent score many but he wouldnt be a bad replacement for jc his hold up play is excellent which would be beneficial for ash and gabby
Sometimes changes our needed if for no other reason to get a player off the field who is having a shocker (Gareth Barry vs. Stoke comes to mind).
Reply to Fitzy_7:
he is also the only man able to be tripped up by grass now i know that is a skill in its self, it is not one for the football pitch and finally he is shittie scum
Reply to villadam:
yes but we need a target man eg jones santa cruz and heskey is the most realistic option a cheaper option also
Reply to villadam:
too true leave heskey where he is blue nosed bastard
I know we need a target man I just don't like Heskey he is just so frustrating to watch (from an england fans view) for me he is one of the biggest waste of talent there's been in a very long time
Reply to villadam:
slightly harsh but can you see o'neill buying a 20 goal a season striker in jan? highly unlikely heskey may very well be here come feb 2 dont get me wrong he wouldnt be my first choice not by a long shot but theres no disputing that he would add quality to the squad
there is no doubting he would give us that bit extra but fitzy all i see is shittie scum. For god sake the only blue nose scum he hasn't played for CCTV
Reply to HectorFullone:
Are you a member of his family?
Reply to villadam:
I would love him at VP, and the mail have linked us with him today!!!
Reply to bow77:
well if it's in the mail he'll be a villa player by the morning lol
Reply to villadam:
I don't know villadam, I thought he was terrific when he partnered in the last qualifying campaign when England made their run before blowing it at home to Croatia.
And in the win at Croatia in this campaign he was excellent and helped unleash Wayne Rooney. If Carew is out long term, I think he would be the perfect complement to Gabby or Ashley Young (if he had to go up front).
anyone got a link to the joe cole link
Reply to bow77:
I agree with HectorFullone, Gardner has played more as a right back or right midfielder than he has in his best position.
Reply to George_Templeton:
Everyone can have a good day. But if you look at the size and the pace of Heskey he should be at the very least a 15 goal all comp striker per season. Now in his 13 year career he has managed to go past the 15 barrier once maybe twice, and before you start giving me he is the supporting striker shit the important word there is striker and strikers should score goals and when you are given the natural talents that Heskey has and you can't score over 15 goals a season on a regular basis then you have wasted your talent
my nan's toyboy's son's girlfriend's daughter's cousin's dog's friends owner said he seen titus bramble at villa park, and he spoke to him and said he is going to sign a 10 year contract worth £80,000 a week tomorrow morning and the fee is in the region of 25 million.
if this is true i think we have got a bargain
Reply to keefvilla:
I don't what it is but i really feel Gardner has real potential and at the moment his develpment is being hindered by MON constantly playing him out of position. He is a CM and nothing else. He can tackle and has a cracking shot but if i was him i would be loking for a move away next summer as he needs to be playing regular football at his age. He could be the next Gary Cahill.
Reply to Kieran_McGrath:
yes just the kind of orgasmic signing i had hoped for..
excellent signing future villa legend
sorry to burst the bubble but Villa have dismissed another rumour!
here is the link:
LINK
Reply to Villa_1_2_3:
I don't get the benefit of denying interest in a player. If you are after say for instance Bale from Spurs but you also being linked with Canella surely this would help you with your bargaining with Spurs if they think you are also looking elsewhere. Ive said this before but this is MON weakness. The transfer market.
I don't get the benefit of denying interest in a player. If you are after say for instance Bale from Spurs but you also being linked with Canella surely this would help you with your bargaining with Spurs if they think you are also looking elsewhere. Ive said this before but this is MON weakness. The transfer market.
Reply to Kieran_McGrath:
I heard 26million with a view to become manager when he retires
Reply to misterbee:
That is an excellent point in my opinion. The blog while at heart is a good point, it is also contradicting itself. You're saying we don't have anyone who is very capable when subbed on, but we want them to be subbed on. I'm not disagreeing about seeing the Hare put on a few times, in games like Fulham, but I do have to protest that while he is stingy to sub I also feel we hardly have anyone worthy of putting on in those situations.
. Nathan is a very intelligent player who creates his own chances and works in the team. Gardner has an eye for goal and imo has one of the best volly's on the team if not the league. Both of them know how to score.
That said I am a fan of Gardner, Delfouneso,and Guzan. I gain interest when I see either of the first two subbed on (Guzan I'd be scared of a Friedal injury D
However one point I will touch is I don't see MON subbing on players to waste time. Surely in a tight game like West Hamm where we were forced to absorb a massive amount of pressure, it would have been wise to sub on Knight or someone? And again, I do believe there are occasions that have cried out for Harewood to be subbed on.
And my point about subbing on Knight i intended to be directed towards a 89th minute sub etc to waste time etc
subbed on? BROUGHT on!
all substitutions the referee stops his watch so it does not waste time it may break play balance of the opposing team
I've got a funny feeling we've done this one.
Facts
We are doing really well.
Our subs are not as good as our 1st choice players even when tired.
Many GREAT players play every game in a season with no problems.
We win games late on.
We cannot attract real quality players to sit on our bench.
If we sign real quality Gabby and Young may end up on the bench and they would leave for certain.
The best we can hope for is a small improvemnet on Marlon et al.
Slowly, slowly catch ye Mancies.
can i go off topic and add something about the wba game, before the match there will be some ex players holding a tin for the paul birch trust.
Gordon Cowans, Des Bremner and Kenny Swain – all members of the 1982 side which conquered Europe – claret and blue record appearance holder Charlie Aitken and Garry Thompson, who also played for the Baggies, are among those who have volunteered.
so if ya going get there early
bluey is a knob, sending me dirty emails offering dirty sexual favours and then blocking me.
VERY MATURE
I think we should use the Bench, it send a better signal out to the rest of the squad.
But lets get rid of the Plodding Osbourne he has had enough chances
Ring the Changes
We are all searching the net hoping to find some info on new Quality signings
But Guess what Martin is sitting at home waiting for His Phone to Ring .
I believe he hopes a manager will call and offer his best player for a few bob.
I hate to read him gloating we have not made any offers yet.
Why NOT at least you can move onto another Target
Is this why we end up paying £12m for Milner because he is to laid back to look for players.
I think Milner is a smashing player but I would not pay that sort of money.
Be Brave Martin Spend on a quality striker & be judged on your decision
It's a funny old thing...this transfer window. Look what it does to us all. I'll bet most of us on here take a quick look online at the latest news to see who we're linked with even though we know most of the links are total media/agent fabrications. One thing that does frustrate me though is the number of people on here who get at Martin O'Neil without having any real concept of how difficult it must be to actually sign the sort of player that we need right now. It's not enough for them to be a really good player.....you also have to be confident that they will fit into our playing style and also gel with the other members of the squad. THEN...when you've found the right sort of player you have to persuade them that they should come to us rather than another side, AND persuade their current manager/chairman to let them go. Even THEN it can all fall down because either the player, or his manager are asking silly money. It's fair enough to make suggestions of who we'd like to see at Villa park, but let's not pretend what you want is what you can always have.
this is definetly damien id disguise!!! stupid story as always, the only reason i look at this blogg is to take the piss out of that muppet damien!!!
he is worse than bill howell at birmingham mail!!! its amazing how damien has stopped his rubbish rumours due to the fact that he knows fuck all!!!!
and all u villa bloggers know it!!!
Reply to bad bobby:
asshole
Reply to Fitzy_7:
Fitzy, you are the man
Oooooooow! 'Baaaaad Bobby', you sound real butch big boy.
ON SKY SPORTS WE ARE IN 4 CHARLES NZOBIA WIV SPURS!
Robbo - great points.
We are all, obviously, excited and anxious to see some signings, especially because of the prize on offer from coming fourth, so we want a) to know who's coming and b) for it to happen quickly, but...
a)
Do we truly want to see who we are dealing with in the press before pen goes to paper on the contract? I'd love to know who's in the frame but our chances of getting who we want are higher if our rivals don't know about it and if we know, they DEFINITELY know - the player's agent will ensure that.
b)
Robbo covered really well already but I'd add:
* Man City for one is a team we just cannot outbid so we might as well let them fill their belly and see what is realistic for us. Harsh but true.
* Then you have dependencies... let's say Bent is an option... clearly that would've needed Defoe's move to go through first (and I assume people agree it would have been wrong to try and sign Defoe when he was so clearly intent on Spurs). Also, Other targets may have been not for sale, then their club gets someone after all and changes their view, etc.
* It takes time to do these things anyway, the financials, the clauses - with the club and with the player. I prefer it when the player bits have been signed up before announcing to avoid disappointment ;-)
* Players coming here will need assurances about their place in the team in any position. To various levels of popularity, this site has had the following suggested STs: Heskey, Bent, Jones, Davies, Jovanovic, Owen... which one will sign to be on the bench? If they are going to start, which one of Gabby, Carew, Milner, Young are going to be happy to make way? Tricky Stuff.
That aside, no harm in banter on who we'd want, let's just not expect MON to join in until he's ready.
PS MON, Please sign Defour, Bentley, Bale and Heskey
Reply to robbo:
Well said mate...
This may well never be read but nonetheless I will post it for the sake of doing so.
People on this blog have seemed to either pick one side of the coin or the other. Whilst there are some people who appreciate a middle ground, a lot of people are ripping into the bloggers because they feel that our bench is rubbish...
Ok sorry but wasn't NRC captain of West Ham two years ago?
Ok sorry but Gardner is one of the best central midfielders in our team, and is one of a few people who can be defined as a genuine ''all-rounder'' in terms of his ability. People are entitled to their opinons and I will respect that but IMO Gardner can change a game with 15-20mintues left.
Ok, hold up a minute. If Gabby is having an off-day, which some people here have no trouble pointing out, some the same people who say we have no subs, is it not a half-decent idea to give Fonz a chance ? Or Harewood ? Remember Harewood did a decent job last year but I admit he is not the quality we need.
As far as I am concerned I couldn't be stuffed if MON never made another sub in his life so long as we kept up our form. What people are missin here is that sometimes we like to put ourselves in MONs shoes and see how we would do things differently? Does that mean we think we are better then MON or are criticising him ? God NO. But Hindsight is a beautiful thing and I'm sure MON will be the first to put up his hand and say maybe I should have done something differently. Sometimes thing work, sometimes they don't.
I can see why MON likes to play his starting XI but sometimes when a game is dead what do yu have to lose?
And for the record, those who think our bench is rubbish should really sit down. Yu boys couldn't do half the shit Gardner, NRC, Fonz and the Hare could do. Remember that form is important too. Sidders may be better then Gardner but Gardner may produce some good form that makes him indespensable to team...
There are many variables to consider but regardless I am happy!
How exactly does NRC being captain of West Ham 2 years ago make him good enough to play for Aston Villa now?
Apprantley the Spuds are going to bid 2million for Nicky Surely I can get a game somewhere Shorey
I hate whingers I really do, so I'm going to have to hate myself for saying this (bit early, that feeling norally comes tomorrow morning after tonights skinful!) Anywho, reports yesterday said that if Arsenal fail to get into the Champions League this year they are in Mark Knopflers as they rely on Champions League money to keep them financial stable. Failure to finish in the top 4 will see Arsenal having to slash their wage bill and sell their top players! "Whats your point?" I hear you say. Well my point is this....
.... breaking into the top 4 this season will break Arsenal for many seasons to come leaving that 4th spot more competitive for the following seasons and breaking the monopoly of the so called big 4!!
MON you have the chance not only to qualify for the CL this season but for the following seasons to come so go out and buy those 2 maybe 3 players that can keep us ahead of Arsenal and in 4th spot stop being loyal to our current crop of players. If you can get someone better in DO IT!
With Big Phil at Chelsea not having a clue about club management and Roman Abramovich losing intrest and money we may even finish 3rd!
And Liverpool haven't had their annual slump yet either.......
So who knows what could be possible with a few choice signings!!! Pipe dreams? Maybe, but its Friday and I'm full of optomism for a change!
Bring on West Brom! UTV!
i sometimes feel that MON should make a change during a game....but then we score a late goal and go on to win the game!....
Reply to bad bobby:
I'm going to take it from your username that you are a plod. However, I think you will more likely be a PCSO or at best a Special Constable..! Anyway if you are indeed a plod, you should have put your detective head on and clicked on the red 'Jonny' word at the top and that would have shown that it's actually JonnyW who wrote the article, the same guy who posted at reply #123 below your reply...!
Alternatively your called Bobby, because that's what the lads at school call you..?
Timmy_Ra,
That's bang on... For me, it was a similar logic to Liverpool pursuing Barry, a bit of strengthening their side and a lot of undermining our development. If we make it at Arsenal's expense, we have a good shout of being able make it stick in coming years. Provided we make the group stages
Like the Knopflers line and the early start
Timmy_Ra's got me wondering about the significance of 3rd versus 4th (previously top 2 was the auto route I think)
Guys, here's the deal... just took this off the UEFA site about next year's CL qualification. It's a direct quote that basically says Top 3 are guaranteed group stages. There's a bit more blurb that says 4th place will join the last qualifying round - win and we join the group stage, lose and we go into the Europa (i.e. revamped UEFA). So basically, the key coefficient is that of the country not the club so we'll still join late on. Nice one - to the old Top 4, thanks guys for your good work over the past few years now one of you step aside!
The 2009/10 access list has been changed according to the following principles: 22 teams (21 teams + the titleholder) qualify directly for the group phase instead of 16. The three national associations with the highest UEFA coefficient ranking will each have three teams who gain automatic entry to the group stage, with the countries ranked 4 to 6 in the standings having two automatic qualifiers and the associations ranked 7 to 12 having one.
Ramonicus - thats the sort of debate i like to generate, obviously some people just read the headline (which should really have had a question mark at the end) and, assuming that i've ripped into MON, leapt to his defense. While theres nothing wrong with that in a way, it would have been nicer of them to read the article and offer some reasoned opinion.
This blog needs more people like you, _AA_, and Villa Chris to balance out the planks.
You may have noticed that no-one has argued with the final like of the article, wonder how many got that far?
The problem with subs is, you have to take players off who can play bad all game and then produce one moment of brilliance and score the winner.
You have to decide whether that is more likely to happen than the person coming off the bench and scoring.
I've been calling for a sub on many occasions. I admit. But as long as we get the results then that is fine.
All those that say this is a pointless post, you replied to it, so it is obviously not. The point of this blog is for people to post stuff that makes you want to comment. Look how long this page is. I suggest this was a very good post. Agree or disagree but don't have a go. I'm just glad to have something new to read at work, so thanks Jonny...
Hey, my first post said Jonny's was a good article. I disagree with some of the points but the quality of the post doesn't depend on whwther I agree with it or not. I guess I'm one of the planks, all the same.
StickyAV - "I suggest this was a very good post. Agree or disagree but don't have a go. I'm just glad to have something new to read at work, so thanks Jonny..."
You're welcome. I think a lot of people missed the fact that there would have been nothing to comment on at all yesterday if not for this article
TheMachine - I liked your comments, they were well reasoned, you are definitely not one of the planks. Like you said 'We've got a light bench' was one of the things that i was highlighting, Delf probably can't change a game yet, neither can Salifou etc. I am confident though, that MON will make more changes when he has more quality.
Jonny, I agree - he'll make more with better quality available but still probably not be as much as other managers might.
JJonny...A bit of advice, but I'd probably do the same as you anyway, but don't bother defending your view. A good article and at least you took the time to write in and all credit to you. Some may disagree with you, but that's what healthy debate is about, so don't bother defending you viewpoint because it's your view and you should be rightly proud of your views.
I actually didn't entirely agree with you, because I am of the opinion MON should play his best 11 and it seems to be working. I pointed out we need better players than we have. Especially on the subs bench. They are Ok, but noone can disagree they are not top 4 material. (I just noticed that you have now agreed with that bit..sorry).
I'd like to see Ash Young on the subs bench...!
Reply to TheMachine:
Thanks for the info Machine that is interesting. With Chelsea on the brink third-place is achievable! Wouldn't it be great if Chelsea and Arsenal both missed the Champions League because one finished fifth and the other lost in the Qualifying rounds.
_AA_: 'A bit of advice, but I'd probably do the same as you anyway, but don't bother defending your view.'
Cheers, probably won't bite so much in future, its just a little frustrating when it seems people are having a pop without actually reading the whole piece.
Just to add to this thread, seeing as it's on this topic...
Just gave it out on radio that MON has got Prem Manager of the month. That's the kiss of death then...!
Reply to JonnyW:
Jonny
Did you write:
“It’s the reasoning behind his lack of substitutions that mystifies…”
and,
“I have found myself watching Villa and almost screaming for a change to the game and Tuesday was one of those times.”
If you wrote this, then you believe that O’Neill is wrong and you are being critical of him. That’s your prerogative, but don’t tell us your not being critical. Did you also write this:
“Knowing what we know now is fine but if the result had been a draw or even worse, a defeat, how many of us would be blasting MON for not throwing on a player or two to attempt to win or, at the very least, change the game?”
If you wrote this, then you guilty of writing garbage. It’s the equivalent of saying “I know O’Neill got it right but I’d like to pretend that he got it wrong so I can criticise him”.
How do you know people never read the complete article? The final sentence was “Surely having someone like Charles N’Zogbia on the bench is a better alternative to having Salifou there?”.Er… yeah. Is this what you call informed analysis? Why would any want to read an entire article to arrive at a conclusion like that? It’s mush.
Jonny, guess what you are. A plank.
Reply to churchil:
Its opinion Churchil, don't get so upset.
Reply to JonnyW:
'Course it is. I'm not upset. But you started calling people who disagreed with you "planks". Which would be me. So I just responded. It comes under the heading of "banter". I enjoy it and I'm sure you do to.
If I might be presumptuous for a moment: in the piece you wrote you tried, in my opinion, to have it both ways. I guess you were trying to be even-handed. That’s nice of you but it doesn’t stir the blood.
Don’t worry about not upsetting people. Let it rip. Be opinionated. Like us all, you’ll get it wrong from time to time and wish you could retract what’s unretractable but, in my humble opinion, it’s the only way to improve your art. Never forget that, as a writer, you’re an artist – do it from the heart, not the head.