Premier League: Chelsea 1 - 0 Manchester City
Sunday, 15 March 09, 04:30 PM · Comments (155)
Match reports
The Guardian, Kevin McCarra: "The contest for the Premier League title may have acquired a little more life, but there was no drama in Chelsea's advance to within four points of the leaders Manchester United, who have a game in hand. Their opponents seemed to expect little of themselves. That attitude does, of course, contain its measure of realism. Manchester City have won just a single away game in the League this season."
Daily Telegraph, Jeremy Wilson: "A gap of four points and one game to Manchester United may still prove decisive but, unlike Liverpool, Chelsea have an abundance of players with the experience of winning a Premier League title. In Hiddink, they also have a manager with the stature to rival Ferguson and the Dutchman was canny enough yesterday to cast himself as the underdog while deflecting any pressure in the direction of Old Trafford. “It’s clear that after Saturday’s unexpected result that the tension has come back in the league,” said Hiddink. “It gives a blow. It depends on their calmness if it goes on. When you are in the driver’s seat and someone else is coming, you can get a little bit nervous. The door is a little bit open.""
The Independent, Sam Wallace: "Guus Hiddink's way of describing Chelsea's pursuit of Manchester United in the title race was to declare yesterday that Sir Alex Ferguson was in the driver's seat but that he must be "nervous" someone was behind him. To extend the metaphor a little further, let us imagine that in Ferguson's rear-view mirror he can see a portly yet composed Dutchman, astride his beloved Harley-Davidson and accelerating gently."
The Times, Matt Hughes: "Manchester City’s owners are discovering the hard way that the most important ingredients in a team are those that money cannot buy. Commitment, teamwork and organisation were all displayed by Chelsea yesterday as they re-established their foothold in the title race, but for the visiting team such qualities were nowhere to be seen."
Official Chelsea FC Website, Andy Jones: "A sixth win in seven Guus Hiddink games moved Chelsea back into second place of the Barclays Premier League on Sunday."
The goal
The preamble
Guus Hiddink made two changes to the side which drew in Turin on Tuesday. Ricardo Carvalho replaced Alex at centre-back, while Deco came in for John Obi Mikel to make his first start under Hiddink.
Statistics pointed to a win. We were on a run of seven straight wins against Manchester City and had scored 18 goals without reply, including a 6-0 drubbing at Stamford Bridge last season. The last time we'd lost to City at the Bridge was in the first Premier League game between the two sides in 1993. Mark Hughes' team also hadn't won a game away from Eastlands since defeating Sunderland at the Stadium of Light in August.
Bookmakers made City 10/1 to win the game.
The sun was shining. The beer was flowing.
The good
- The performance. It was the perfect antidote to the roller-coaster madness of the midweek Champions League encounter against Juventus. Composed, slick and for the most part, very impressive. From the outset it was clear there was only going to be one winner. City looked aimless as we passed the ball around and through them with ease. Frank Lampard and the two Michaels, Essien and Ballack, lorded it over City's midfield, which got increasingly frustrated (Brazilian players obviously don't like to be made to look ordinary). Drogba harried and hassled City's central defensive partnership of Richard Dunne and Nedum Onuoha. And Petr Cech stood and admired it all from afar. City had their moments of course, but in the main they were outfought and outplayed by a team on the up.
- Michael Essien. What a player. Phil Scolari said that a fit Essien would be like having “five new players”. He knew a bit, that Phil. In what was only his second full game since returning from six months out with a serious knee injury, and his first in the league, Essien put in a vintage performance of power, pace and no little skill. He scored his second goal in four days after some quick thinking from Lampard and some atrocious defending from City left him in acres of space on the 18 yard line to turn and sweep the ball off his shin past a helpless Shay Given. He went on to have several more attempts at goal. There are very few players like him. Thank goodness he's ours.
- Frank Lampard. His vision, speed of thought and range of passing never ceases to amaze me. Time and again he made me shake my head in wonder. He wasn't at his best either, a couple of simpler passes went astray and his shooting was poor by his own high standards - but all in all it was another impressive demonstration of attacking midfield play.
- There probably should be more in this section, but my alcohol-addled brain is having difficulties recalling the match (I stayed in the pub to watch England thrash France in the Six Nations. I'm paying for it).
The bad
- We weren't ruthless enough in front of goal. We should've taken advantage of playing poor opposition. It's unlikely that the destination of the title will be decided on goal difference, but if the the unthinkable does happen we'll look back on this game as a missed opportunity to better Manchester United's GD figure.
- Manchester City. What a load of rubbish. Mark Hughes spent £90m on players last summer and tens of millions more in the January transfer window (not forgetting the £100m or more they offered for Kaka. Can you imagine Kaka playing alongside the rabble Hughes fielded in this game?). A few of those players were missing today, but that doesn't excuse what was a passionless and at times pathetic performance, occasionally no better than a Sunday morning pub league team (at least The Royal Oak first eleven care enough to give it a go, unlike Robinho). On the evidence of this season it's clear that the world's richest club are many, many years from being a force in the Premier League. They remain just six points clear of the relegation zone, so they could yet find themselves in trouble. The likes of David Villa et al would have to be mad or incredibly greedy to sign for them. I can't see Hughes being in charge next season.
- Robinho. £90,000 net a week! What a waste of money. Okay, just kidding. Sort of. Seriously though, he made Drogba's lacklustre performances under Scolari look world class. Was fortunate to remain on the field as long as he did. Hughes blamed the sunshine.
Player ratings
Rated out of one hundred using the hexadecimal number system. Click on the rating to see the decimal equivalent in a new browser window.
- Petr Cech - 0x4116 - Had next to nothing to do all match. Made a couple of routine saves.
- Jose Bosingwa - 0x4616 - Provided the width which was missing from the midfield diamond. Found his crossing boots after the break.
- John Terry - 0x4616 - One late tackle on Elano apart, he was untroubled throughout. Cleared practically every ball that came near him.
- Ricardo Carvalho - 0x4616 - Played 90 minutes for the first time since returning from long-term injury. Breezed through the match. Made a couple of timely interceptions. Still one of the best.
- Ashley Cole - 0x4616 - Another solid demonstration of full-back play.
- Deco - 0x3C16 - Lasted 40 minutes before succumbing to injury. Started brightly enough but was soon on the fringes of the game. Was replaced by Juliano Belletti. Hiddink hinted after the game that he could be out for the rest of the season after a recurrence of a hamstring injury.
- Michael Essien - 0x5A16 - An awesome performance. Scored his second goal in four days. Man of the Match. You have to feel for John Obi Mikel.
- Frank Lampard - 0x5016 - A couple of passes went astray and he didn't have his shooting boots on, but he more than made up for it with his all round performance. I've said it before and no doubt I'll say it again, he just seems to be getting better with age.
- Michael Ballack - 0x4616 - A controlling influence in midfield. Played in a more withdrawn role than in recent games. It's a shame he lost his footing at the vital moment after Drogba's excellent back-heeled pass.
- Nicolas Anelka - 0x4B16 - Played wide right in the first half. Did well. Tackled back when required. Works a lot harder than you think. Switched to play the lone striker when Drogba was forced off with an injury.
- Didier Drogba - 0x4B16 - Didn't quite reach the heights of recent weeks but had a good game nonetheless. Still spends a little too much time on the deck for my liking. Let's hope the injury he suffered is minor.
- Juliano Belletti (sub) - 0x4616 - Replaced the injured Deco before half time. Unlucky not to score with one of his long range specials which hit the inside of Given's post. Shoooooot!
- Florent Malouda (sub) - 0x4116 - Pretty good during his brief cameo. Had two decent efforts on goal.
Man of the Match
Michael Essien. I feel I've already used enough superlatives to describe his performance. He was our best player by some distance. That's it in a nutshell.
Oh, sod it. He was fucking magnificent.
Final thoughts
That's eight wins and one draw since Scolari was shown the door at the beginning of February. Hiddink has guided us to six of those victories and remains unbeaten in the league with four wins out of four. It's a shame he won't be our manager next season.
Liverpool's humiliation of United at Old Trafford yesterday has at least made the title race that little bit more exciting. If United win their game in hand they would have a seven point lead with nine games to play, which isn't insurmountable (pundits and Arsenal fans talk of the Gunners overhauling United's 11 point lead in the 1997/98 season, but if memory serves me correctly Arsenal had at least two if not three games in hand on United that year). If we win all our remaining games (not out of the question; our run-in looks to be the easiest of the three clubs) United would have to lose at least two and draw another. It seems unlikely that a team of their calibre and experience would throw the title away at this late stage, but stranger things have happened in this great game.
I'm not getting my hopes up. To be honest I would be happy to finish in the top three to ensure entry into the Champions League without having to go through the pre-season qualifying round. It would give Gianfranco Zola and Steve Clarke* a great platform on which to start building for next season.
Keep the blue flag flying high.
Related links
*or whoever ends up being our next manager. My money's still on Zola and Clarke.
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155 Comments · Add yours
Thanks Nick for such a quick turnaround
Whilst I found the afternoon positive for the most part, I was still frustrated at the lack of a 2nd goal which so easily could result in a snatched equaliser and the loss of 2 points. Having said that, Citeh weren't really a threat but as we've seen before it only needs one touch of magic...
I dont understand why Quarelsma is not being bloodied in, as a sub, with Gus bringing on Malouda instead - I'm convinced we will need Quarelsma in the Champions League. Apart from that mionor quibble, and Ballack seemingly finding it impossible to score (though his efforts are not that bad), a good afternoon all round
Oh, I haven't mentioned I'm the first...oops
The wit in the row behind me was in good form - claiming Deco only turned out because the temperature was above 60 degrees again, and insisting he play wide left to catch the sunshine on the pitch.
I thought Essien was just awesome for only his 2nd start after such a long break - and finding his scoring boots too.
Nick - I thought we have to finish 2nd to avoid the 3rd qualifying round of CL?
Nice one Nick. Disagree (mildly) on one or two points......
I with Z on the Quaresma front and I'm afraid I thought Malouda was shocking again. One effort on goal was unlucky with Dunne getting in the way, but the other into the side netting was down to ponderous decision making in front of goal. Apart from anything else it's the 'laissez-faire' attitude he shows. At one point he was a good 20 yards offside when we were attacking and he just wandered up the pitch as if he was walking the dog. He's lazy and to my mind doesn't want to be there. Surely the first on the exit list?
Which brings me to Hiddink and the odd weird decision.....we're after a second goal or maybe more and he replaces the ineffectual and lazy Deco (injury or not he can't be arsed to tackle or fight for the ball....compare and contrast to Essien who was god-like today) with Belletti and then replaces Drogba with Malouda. Why not Kalou who's looked useful of late and Quaresma ...who must be wondering what he's done wrong. Is it player power? What does Hiddink (and Scolari before him) see in Malouda that around 38,000 of us at the game can't see?
The second half was at points looking like the Wigan game, with us sitting way too deep at times and as Z has noted, although Citeh didn't offer much it only takes a bit of magic or luck to get back in the game and the day is ruined. I'm convinced if we'd got a second then the floodgates would have opened. A wins a win though and that's the most important thing. I thought Mikel Obi was a tad unlucky to be benched having been so reliable all season, but maybe he needs a break and can look at Essien and learn from him. Ballack was very impressive in the holding role and as age starts to affect his pace maybe that's his future.
The half time beer is awful.........we really need to sell something decent rather than the piss water dished up today........
I know Hiddink and the club keep plugging the official line, but if he carries on winning there will be massive pressure from the fans for him to stay. Roman will have a massive clash of interests there! If anyone new is going to take over in the summer, I would definitely go for Zola and Clarke.
And re: 2 (blueboydave), the European competitions are being reformatted starting next year. Because England has been so successful in the CL in recent years, the top THREE all now qualify for the group stages directly. Fourth place still faces a qualifying round, although that has become harder, as whoever finishes there could now face a fourth place Italian or Spanish team. That said, considering our 4-0 result in Europe last week, that might not make much of a difference at the moment...
P.S. Three games ago, Villa were eight points clear of Arsenal in fourth. Now they are equal, and Arsenal are ahead on goal difference. Unfortunately, I don't see Villa getting it back now. That's what happens when you throw away a 2-0 home lead in the last ten minutes against Stoke.
Reply to blueboydave:
You're correct, BBD. I meant to make it clear that the team that finishes fourth could end up playing one of the bigger guns after UEFA scrapped the seedings. Habs mentioned it in a previous comment.
@Tony - An example of how much more a fan sees when at the game. Watching it in the pub after a few pints of beer is always different -- you tend to see and remember the significant moments and not what's happening off the ball.
I did consider questioning Hiddink's subs, but thought better off it. He must have had a plan to defeat City, hence the midfield diamond and lack of wingers, and stuck to it when bringing on Belletti. I would have loved to have seen Quaresma but perhaps Hiddink thought it might unbalance the team. Who knows. He seems intent on sticking with Malouda so must see something in training that we don't see in matches. Hiddink's doing all right. ;)
Good stuff Nick.
Unfortunately, I had to watch the game through a poor feed on a bus. Still, that's much better than not watching the game! The wonders of WiFi.
I'm not quite sure about Malouda either. You have what looks like an easy win, where the left winger position won't be crucial in securing victory. You also have Kalou, Quaresma, and Stoch available (not sure if Stoch was on the teamsheet, just in theory). Yet Malouda is picked. Is he magic in practice? With that attitude, does he own the position during the week? For such a disciplinarian, I'm a touch mystified.
It seemed to me that we had at least two solid penalty shouts. Drogba was annihilated at one point, and Anelka was hauled down definitively. What does it take for us to get a penalty? Yet Liverpool can win them at Old Trafford. Not to say they weren't deserved, but "the game of the season" having 2 penalties and a red card was not quite what I expected.
Zone- no Q in the CL. Ineligible.
Peregrine- I agree. I think O'Neill's goose is cooked. You can't play high tempo football with a small squad all season. Meanwhile Arsenal seem like they have figured out how to win without Fabregas.
On that note, has anyone seen the highlights of the Burn-Arse match? Bendtner was shocking. He positions himself well for service, but he missed easy chances over and over. Had that been Anelka, that game ends 8-0.
Other mysteries of the universe- Anelka is no longer prodigious in front of goal, but he looks excellent in his new role. He and Drogs are forming something of a partnership, he takes good shots from deep, and he works quite hard to defend and to prolong the attack. No appearance whatsoever of "Le Sulk".
Given his notoriety as a mercenary, does anyone else think he may have reformed his ways, and given the right coach next year, he may decide to finish out his career with Chelsea?
Reply to chelseablog:
What goes on in Hiddink's brain I'll never know. After seeing him work so far, I do believe he's a certifiable footballing genius.
I know he's often called "Lucky Guus", but I've always thought being lucky is being able to spot and seize upon the same fortune presented to everyone. To often be lucky is really to be good...
Had we lost in Turin, we could claim to be unlucky on Didier's free kick. But it didn't come to that.
Something is going very, very right with the team now. Everyone is happy. No one complains. Some of this goes with winning, but then there's Ashley's alcohol problem. That quickly went away from the team and the press. Also, the press seem to respect our wins.
I'm confused. I'm worried it will all quite rapidly come crashing down.
Reply to Be_Champions:
I wouldn't be surprised if Anelka stays here a few more years, as he has been brilliant this season. However, the squad age is ever increasing.
Look at the team we had out today (Cech excluded, as we all know keepers can go longer):
Bosingwa (26)/Carvalho (31 in May)/JT (28)/Ash (28)
Deco (31, replaced by Belletti, 32), Lamps (30), Ballack (32), Essien (26)
Drogba (31, replaced by Malouda, 28), Anelka (30)
A lot of these players are still in their prime, but the midfield age is concerning in particular. We all know Lamps, Essien and Mikel should be the future of our centre for the next few years, and that Ballack should start being phased out by the end of this season (he'll be 33 in September). Deco has only been here a year and should be given at least one more.
I am personally of the opinion that this summer is the one where regeneration must occur and we should be buying one or two younger players for the first XI.
We already have Stoch, Mancienne and Di Santo in the first team - I expect all three of them to have a larger role next season, particularly Mancienne and Di Santo. Kalou should regain his place up front - he is more effective when he thinks less!
Benzema, Ribery and Zhirkov are the names that everyone's throwing about, and I wouldn't be averse to seeing any of them in our blue, but it is especially out wide where we need the new blood next season. A clinical finisher also would not go amiss, although we still have Anelka for another year or two.
In a few years, we should see how the Russian kid Dzagoev is getting on, as he looks like an ideal Lamps replacement and he has also stated we would be his first choice other than CSKA.
I'm with those who thought Malouda was much better today than he's been recently. His jog back from offside was when Cech hoofed a massive punt upfield and he was a good 20 yards off, still trotting (okay, ambling ... okay, walking) back from the previous attack. The ball was never going to anyone except Given and there wasn't any point him dashing back to an onside position.
It seems to me that Golden Guus has rethought the wide men. Neither of them today were being asked to play like wingers. Both Anelka and Deco were often quite deep, and had the job of holding posession up before moving the ball on either to overlapping fullbacks or back to the Bison-Lampard axis which flattened Citeh so utterly. For the first time I thought Anelka actually looked effective getting the ball further back up the field and playing someone else in.
Whereas Kalou and Q are both more wingery wingers -- charge down the flank, try and beat your man. My guess is that Golden was making a tactical point here.
Also interesting that at 1-0 up we *definitely* sat back and waited for them to panic and overcommit to the attack, as they duly did from about the 55th minute onwards.
One feels that Golden is tough enough, and has enough of Abramovich's respect, to tell RA to stick his Barca/Arsenal fantasies up his bottom. Both Grant and Scolari were obviously ordered to play more like Brazil/Spain/Arse/whoever had been getting good press. Whereas Golden is going to do things his way, for the few more games he's here. Let's hope RA understands the significance of this.
At the West Stand entrance along the perimeter wall are life-size player photos where fans can pose for snaps. There's also a squad photo where Guus has now appeared. Either Guus has an unusually large head, which I hadn't noticed on TV, or more likely he's been Photoshopped onto the body of Big Phil. This leads me to conclude that the caretaker candidates for this season had to be heavy set, wrinkly and white leaving a short-list of Guus, Avram and Ancelotti. Frank Rikard was never in with a shout.
Next season it'll be more of a blank canvas.
O.k, so not having a) a subscrisption to Sultana TV or b) a laptop that works well enough to watch a stream, I actually paid no attention to the game, save for the odd checking of SSN every 20 minutes.
MOTD2 clearly showed me little (as always). The return of Essien really does seem to be the catalyst for an improvment in performances - he's such a presence, with such a desire and work ethic that it can't fail to inspire those around him. To play like he has done in only his 2nd game back from a horror knee injury is testament to the sort of guy he is. Lesser men would have given up. Not the Bison.
I'm quite glad at how quiet the press have been about the impact 'Game of the century TM' has on us. Anyone would think that it's only Liverpool that can catch ManUSA, somehow ignoring the fact we were above them by virtue of goal difference before the weekend, and are in front of them again now.
Ho hum.
Reply to Fiftee:
To be honest Fiftee, I think it's quite good to be flying under the media radar on the title run in. Let them relive the nostalgia from those days when only Utd and Liverpool where the teams worth writing about. It would be sooo sweet and poetic, if we can nick the title from under their noses.
I watched the game in scenic countryside that is North Devon, with a fellow Chelsea supporting mate who subscribes to Sultana Sports. Plenty of beer and a very nice roast lunch which was even more enjoyable after the result.
It really was the Essien show, the guy was everywhere, he's back to his marauding best, and Oh! how we've missed him.
So now it's heads down for the run in, it's going to be one hell of a ride, so buckle up!
Afternoon all,
Only seen the goal but concensus seems to be we were pretty comfortable all round; probably a safe bet to put a tenner on Mark Hughes being out of work come the summer. Second Clive's point about being happy that no-one is mentioning us in the title shake-up; Liverpool very impressive on Saturday against a slightly off-colour United, but who'd bet against them drawing against some relegation fodder before the season is out? And the other side of the coin (United), I wouldn't want to be in Fulham's back line next Saturday either.
Great to have Essien back; might not make much difference to the title race overall, but his energy is a fantastic addition to the midfield.
The lingering question about Guus's future is likely to keep cropping up if we finish the season strongly; he is making it all look rather easy at the moment, isn't he?
Reply to Peregrine:
"I am personally of the opinion that this summer is the one where regeneration must occur and we should be buying one or two younger players for the first XI.
We already have Stoch, Mancienne and Di Santo in the first team - I expect all three of them to have a larger role next season, particularly Mancienne and Di Santo. Kalou should regain his place up front - he is more effective when he thinks less!"
If the club is thinking of regenerating the team with a few youngsters, it's another good reason to appoint Franco. The West Ham youngsters have been raving about his influence on their game and his coaching techniques.
I think I should stop getting my hopes up.
"I watched the game in scenic countryside that is North Devon, with a fellow Chelsea supporting mate who subscribes to Sultana Sports. Plenty of beer and a very nice roast lunch which was even more enjoyable after the result."
Sounds idyllic, Clive. Are there many Blues up that way? I'm always amazed at how many Liverpool fans there are in the West Country. I've watched several matches featuring 'Pool in Cornwall, often surrounded by several Cornish dudes with incomprehensible Cornish accents wearing red. I tend to keep my allegiance quiet when surrounded by them.
@Nick
There is quite a healthy Blues following down here in the South West. The local supporters branch has over 350 memebers on the last count, not too shabby by any means. So we do have a very good following, although not on the same scale as those Mancs.
Just one thing. What the hell was Mike Riley doing officiating a Chelsea match after his shocker of a performance at Anfield. Here he denied us a blatant penalty that could ultimately have been quite costly. Keep him away from us for the rest of the season please.
Lampard assist; Essien goal. What would we do without them?
"Lampard assist; Essien goal. What would we do without them? "
Lamps went for goal, mishit, bounced off essien's shin. Period.
Essien dominated everything? how many goal scoring chances did he create? Why does he see so much of the ball and do so little? I'm certain if it was Fabregas there would ave been at least a dozen scoring chances created. I checked the chalkboards to see how they all linked with our strikers. Hopeless.
Yeah, how dare Essien be a completely different sort of player to Fabregas! It's almost as bad as Lampard being a completely different sort of player to Kaka! Boooooooooo! It's not fair!
Yeah, how dare Essien be a completely different sort of player to Fabregas! It's almost as bad as Lampard being a completely different sort of player to Kaka! Boooooooooo! It's not fair!
I'm still appalled that apples are nothing like oranges. I've written to Tesco to complain and everything.
Fuck me, his self-induced sabbatical lasted all of what, 5 days.
He asked to be left alone. We left him alone. But God forbid someone mention Lampard.
Moffat to Lampard quotes : Flies to excrement. Discuss.
Moffat to Lampard quotes : Flies to excrement. Discuss.
I think excrement is..... more sensible, has greater intelligence, and probably smells nicer.
Thing is, if he was a Gooner he'd be on their messageboards whinging about how Fabregas doesn't score 20 a season like Lampard or put his foot in like Essien.
In fact, that's probably exactly what he does do.
Mr Benfield, while I hold hard to the view that reportage and the taking of strong drink should not be mixed (look at British Journalism since writing emerged from the monasteries), you are to be thanked for pulling together the strands of a tense day.
It was God ordained, I suppose that the metaphorical letting down of the rather over inflated tyres on the Manure bandwagon, should be left to those with the greatest expertise in these matters. Foolish indeed of Sir Alex to proffer a couple of bob to those charming scallywags in return for the safekeeping of his pride and joy. We could all have told him that 90 minutes later it would be up on bricks. Never mind I’m sure he’ll learn.
So we had to win and win we did. And while it was only one goal, from what I heard on the radio and saw on the highlights it was done with some style. Hiddink is being characterised as returning us to some sort of uber-efficient, soulless football that lacks style or entertainment (wrongly associated with JM). But yesterday demonstrated that just like those red shirt wearers beloved of the press, we can play one touch stuff, knock it about and be progressive. Perhaps the goals ‘aint going in, but they will I think, they will.
Once again, the experts have been confounded by the fact that Essien was not used as the natural replacement for Mikel. When will they see that he is not a holding mid-field player in the mould of the modern exponents of that role? And would be wasted there as well.
@ Be_Champions
“I'm confused. I'm worried it will all quite rapidly come crashing down.”
Well done sir! Reminding us all that ultimately we are Chelsea fans. I will be in the away end at the Lane next Saturday, but unfortunately it will be a waste of a ticket. Why? Because like Chicken-Licken (and that’s not the name of one of the 5 billion fried chicken shops in Hackney, it’s an old fable), I shall be looking up at the sky, waiting for it to fall in.
Reply to PeteW:
The readout on my WHARICUS meter (What has Riley Cost US)is very high at the moment and I’ve had to switch it off. At least 1 point and 2 goals at Anfield (assuming a 0-0 which is not unreasonable). At least 2 goals yesterday (2 penalties - there was an incident where Drogba was tackled by one CB but caught by Dunne at the same time, difficult to spot but there it is) maybe more as City would have caved in. When we played Manure he blew up 2 minutes early instead of sending off Rio, which would have allowed us to score at least a hat trick, well maybe not, but we would have had a good laugh at least. Against West Ham? Give me time I’ll find something.
One win in four games against Riley says it all. At least 3 more points and a goal difference to leave Manure in the shade.
Reply to BlueBayou:
I think we can safely assume that anything less than a point at WHL next week and Guus's honeymoon period will be well and truly over.
I am heartened by the fact that Lennon had his one good game in six at Villa Park yesterday; should help us a bit. And Palacios / Jenas will struggle to deal with Le Bison and co.
I had a look over the top three's respective run-ins this morning to confirm what everyone's saying about ours looking the easiest.
I couldn't see it, I must say. (Call me Exhibit B in the archetypally depressive Chelsea fan case study.) We have to go away to Spuds, Arse and Spam. I can see at least three or four points being dropped somewhere over those three games alone. The Mancs seem to have a lot more gimmes than we do.
Perahps I should consult the chalkboards -- then I'd know the truth.
Reply to limetreebower:
Next two aways are tricky, no question. And a few weeks ago I'd have been confident about Villa throwing a spanner in the works up at Anfield and/or OT, but they look ripe for a pasting in both games at the moment.
BlueBayou, your WHARICUS meter should be telling you that Riley cost us another penalty and 2 points vs. West Ham. Remember Lucas Neill's blatant trip on Lampard about a foot in front of Riley in the dying minutes? You know, the one that was visible from space?
And if the freakish waste of carbon had actually followed the letter of the law during the home draw with United he would have sent off Scholes, Neville, and yes, Ferdinand, in addition to allowing us to take the free kick at the death should we still have needed that chance to win the match after playing much of the second half against nine men.
Of course Riley is not alone in his policy of never awarding Chelsea a penalty; off the top of my head I can remember the following stonewall pens not given since the opening day vs. Pompey:
Micah Richards push on Anelka at City
Lucas Neill trip
Mikel Arteta's obvious arm-to-ball block of Deco FK
Fulham handball block of Lampard's probable winning strike
Kalou and Ashley Cole both tripped/blocked off at home to Stoke
Andy Dawson handball vs. Hull
Combine the above with the numerous other ridiculous decisions that have gone against us (i.e. both of Arsenal's goals), not to mention the equally ludicrous decisions routinely given in favour of our rivals, and it's easy to see that even taking into account Scolari's failings we would be walking the league right now if match officials performed their jobs with a fraction of the integrity and professionalism we demand from the players.
Of course, had such officiating integrity indeed been in evidence in recent seasons, Chelsea would be the current English (and European) Champions, having retained that title four years in a row. Thank goodness the likes of Riley and Poll fought so valiantly to prevent such a horrifying outcome, because as we've all been told when one team dominates like that it destroys the sport, ruins the lives of innocent children, and corrupts the very fabric of space.
...Oh.
Taking a step back from Guus and the revolution he's over-seeing, the photo on the Grauniad site that accompanies yesterdays match-report got me thinking.
Paul Clement is seen in it, as he's made the step up to help Guus out for the remainder of the season. We've lost Clarkey as a coach and assistant; Brendan Rogers has gone. If Guus stays, then Clement would possibly keep that role - which asks the question : just who the hell is managing the reserve and youth teams now? That's three people we've gone through, lets hope that these changes aren't being done to the detriment of the other teams as well as the senior side.
Reply to limetreebower:
Consult the runes! Scatter the entrails upon the chalkboards, and divine the future!
Reply to PeteW:
Honestly, he isn't even trying anymore.
My suggestion is a forced sabbatical.
Reply to #18:
Were it down to me I would be awarding you a PhD for the quality of research and the marshalling of your arguments.
It prompted two thoughts.
The first was that we are going to be the beneficieries of some frightful refereeing during the run in on the basis that the experts tell us these things even themselves out over a season.
The second was that if I were still writing my world renowned Dr Bayou's Guide to Health and Happiness Column (available in all goood quality publications directed at the Gentleman reader), I would be counselling lots walks in fresh air and sunlight with minimal loose clothing, particularly in the ozone rich surroundings of the coast. A fibre rich diet to scour the bag will also help. Otherwise, I fear that dwelling to deeply on these matters could take you to a very dark place.
Reply to #18:
Honestly, what does it take for us to get a penalty? We've had one. As I said, there were two obvious ones.
Dunne particularly upset me yesterday, as he mouthed off to the press about Drogba.
He said: "If someone is going for the ball and the centre-forward is good enough to beat them and it's not a dangerous tackle, but just a little bit late, it's a yellow card straight away.
LINK
"It is very difficult for defenders because it's not us who are diving or jumping around - yet it's us who are getting booked and sent off. So a bit of common sense from the refs would make the game more enjoyable - for supporters as well as defenders."
After that Sir Alex style windup, he goes out and performs a WWE-esque tag team beatdown on drogba, right on the penalty spot. Both defenders went for the tackle...
... that means only one of them can get the ball.
Yet, 2 penalties and a red card at Old Trafford. I can't understand.
Oh, and in other positive news, no one is talking about Man U being the best team ever anymore.
Funny, that.
FROM WhaT I'vE SeEN oVEr ThE YeARs tHe SLighTEST OF conTActS ThE dROg gOEs dOwN WinCiNg LIkE A pUsSY, So To ErR On tHE rIgHt sIdE DON'T GIVE A PENALTY!
@Nick
I thought you banned him?
Yes, the Vidic is the best defender in the history of football camp have gone quiet.
For all their faults, I've never seen Alex or Terry play as badly as that. It was Bramblesque.
Interesting that we've played a game more but have conceded the same number of goals.
Would love to know if our lack of pens this season is some kind of record for a team in our position. It surely must be. Be nice to see if somebody would make a stink out of it, so we can get a dodgy one at WHL and make up for Sheringham's blatant last-minute dive to earn them a point in 93 (yes, I have a long memory).
Reply to moffat:
Which part of you is Blue?
And on the issue of Drog going down, why don't you take a look at this.
LINK
I watch this at least twice a day. Why don't you do it too!
Reply to Neanderthal:
Methinks Gerrard doth protest too much.
What is so funny about it is that he has a technique. If you actually get tripped, generally you go for a tumble. It is graceful, necessarily, as someone has removed your balance.
Gerrard always puts his hands up near his head as he goes down. It isn't even clever. He also has a tendency to slide on his knees. He has the most artistic fouls committed against him.
The other one I love is when players go down, then reach out for the ball and hug it, in order to force the ref into a call. One day, just once, I'd love to see a ref card a player who hugs the ball for handball.
It is exactly the difference between incidental contact and deliberately playing the ball with your hand.
Sorry, in the second line, it isn't graceful! When you actually get tripped it is an ugly fall.
Sorry. Wish we could edit.
When I fall, I put my hands out to cushion the blow. When Gerrard falls, he puts his hands up to frame the picture as he slides on his knees.
Reply to Be_Champions:
Gerrard's diving technique is actually a more refined version of the one Joe Cole uses on occasion. Probably why Stevie gets more penalties*
No doubt that the one he got on Saturday was legit though; raises the question as to exactly how many times you've seen similar up at OT that haven't been given.
*I haven't checked the chalkboards on this.
BlueBayou, thank you for your kind words and health advice. Unfortunately I am already very familiar with the dark place you mention, as thanks to the efforts of Riley and his fellows I generally experience at least one rage blackout per match. And considering that over the course of the last several seasons my ulcers have developed ulcers, I fear I can offer conclusive evidence that the 'bad decisions even themselves out' theory is in fact what modern scientists would term 'total bollocks.'
Still, I will not yet give in to despair. Perhaps if I am a very good girl, and light a few candles, and donate to charity, and perform one or two ritual sacrifices, Chelsea may, at some point before I die, receive the benefit of the doubt whilst on the attack to cancel out one of the 3972875 incorrect offside calls endured by Hernan Crespo alone.
Now please excuse me, I'm going to go hold my breath.
Reply to PeteW:
Message from the consulting rooms of Dr Bayou
"I am unable to take you on as a patient. You are beyond help"
Reply to Neanderthal:
referees are told not to award penalties to drogba because unlike the other divers in the league he's dull, big, obvious and brainless. where do you draw the line between him fooling around and being fouled? Get it?
Really Moffat, why do you ever come on here? To splurt out more crap or to make yourself look like a c*nt? Just go away.
Like others i'm also waiting for our bubble to burst. That's what being a Chelsea fan is all about, isn't it? Waiting for the next crash after being on the up for the past 6 weeks? But the Spurs game does worry me:
1. It's Spurs. They always play better against us and their fans are some of the most arrogant and cocky in the league who somehow drive the team on to beat us.
2. Past form. Our last 2 high profile meetings have ended in disaster with a Cup Final defeat and a 4-4 which virtually cost us the title.
3. Robbie Keane. He's back and he's still the annoying twat he always was. You'll see how he never shuts up, how dirty he is and how he can cheat with the best of them. I nearly hate him a much as Carragher.
4. Aaron Lennon. He's in good form and has learnt to cross the ball. Ashley will have a tough game.
5. Tactics. I fear that our powerful yet narrow 4-1-3-2 may be exposed by Lennon as well as how we'll replace Deco. I wouldn't want to see Mikel come back in as we'd be too slow and predictable in midfield, yet i fear Guus will bring back Malouda and then we'd be fucked.
But there are reasons to be optimistic:
1. Guus. His 100% league record is great so why should it stop now?
2. Spurs are shit. Harry Redknapp is a poor tactician and comparing our XI with theirs shows that it should be an easy Chelsea win.
3. We've got Lamps and Essien who must be the best midfield partnership in world football.
4. We know that we have to win every remaining game so that makes things simple for us. Just go out there and crush them.
I am slightly fearing the Spurs game because of our recent history but we really should beat them on current form.
"2. Spurs are shit. Harry Redknapp is a poor tactician and comparing our XI with theirs shows that it should be an easy Chelsea win. "
Okay, Lets compare:
Chelsea:
---------Cech---------
------JT-------Riccy--
Bosingwa----------Cole
--Essien-----Ballack--
---------Lamps--------
-----(??)------Nico---
---------Drogs--------
(Formation??)
Tottenscum:
--------Carlo---------
--Woodgate---King-----
Corluka-----------Bale
----Jenas--Palacios---
Lennon----------Modric
--------Keane---------
-----Pavlyuchenko-----
Ours is better, But Tottenham's isn't half bad.
What's gonna happen?
Reply to moffat:
dull, big, obvious and brainless sounds a bit like you.
Off topic,
wondering how many of those Villa fans will turn up here in May, as promised?
Looking ahead, on Friday I would welcome a United v Liverpool pairing for the next round in Europe!!
Delicious, won't it be?
Like others I am also intrigued Guus brings on Malouda ahead of Kalou and RQ!!!
However on the Belletti substitution, it was more of a tactical move as he was trying to help cover Bridgey's runs down the wing, hence Anelka shifting to the right side, methinks.
Reply to CELERY:
I was just thinking that as soon as they all turned up here trying to give it some their season collapsed around their ears - could someone entice some Mancs to try the the same thing now - come on Clive you scrabble in the sewers of other clubs blogs from time to time ;-)
Yeah, come on Clive ! :-)
Reply to blueboydave:
Although it has to be said we need them to somehow nick at least a draw at OT and at Anfield in their next two upcoming games!
Good thing they are much better away than they are at home.
@BBD & Celery
I don't mind taking one for the team, but there is a line even I won't cross.:-)
Reply to CELERY:
Hmmm it is second time I hear this. Yes, indeed Liverpool vs. Man USA would be delicious.
Reply to KaiserJonny_II:
Here's the funny thing about that:
I'll concede that it is a *valid* penalty. As penalties go, when you hook someone without the ball, that's a foul.
But I see a deeper problem. Watch the penalty again if you get a chance. Watch it is slow mo. Again- I'm conceding that under our current rules, that's a penalty. But, where does the ball go?
You'll see Gerrard deftly pokes it away from himself and Evra before Evra gets to make his tackle. That's an unplayable ball. Gerrard never has the chance to take a second touch, even if he stays on his feet.
Ibrahimovic tries this all the time. Blasts the ball out of touch and gets knocked down. The Italian plan, if everyone remembers my little graph.
Why is this a penalty? Maybe I'm getting a bit philosophical here, but shouldn't a penalty be a foul that impedes a scoring opportunity, not just any foul in the box?
I realize this requires an overhaul of the FIFA rules (which I read in their entirety the other day in order to clarify the handball rule), but why not an indirect kick in the box, or a direct kick from the edge of the box, or something?
My concern is that right now there are two standards of officiating- inside and outside of the box. If you foul someone in the box, it should matter, but it shouldn't be the insta-goal that it has become.
Think about it-
Handball on the line deliberately- penalty.
Incidental handball with low intent on the edge of the box blocking a cross- penalty?
Foul a player with a scoring opportunity- penalty.
Foul a player dribbling away from goal- penalty?
What has happened is that referees are afraid to decide games on very difficult situations to ascertain even on replay. So they are less likely to blow the whistle. And people are more likely to dive, as the incentive structure is only a yellow, or a goal. A yellow! And we laud defenders who take the yellow for "professional fouls". I hate diving, but we've just made it a "professional foul"!
Reply to haberdashers:
Habs-
Who is to say we play the narrow midfield again? I think Guus throws 'arry a curveball in this game.
Spurs are very, very fast. But from MOTD, it looks like Villa had good chances to win, but didn't defend with serious intent. They let spurs run past them on loose balls. Having Riccy back will help quite a bit with that.
Villa allowed far too many easy shots and crosses. I think if we are patient, if we play some Drogba long ball, we can keep them out and wear them down.
But it will be interesting. Spurs are no doubt a dangerous side. I wonder if Stoch and Quaresma are playing "scout team" this week- flying down the wings to prepare the team for Lennon.
If anyone is here right now- there is about 10 minutes left in the West Ham match. They are playing some good stuff- worth watching I think to see Zola's handiwork.
Reply to Be_Champions:
Evening Be_Champs,
Fair points you make; my take on it is sort of the reverse of what you mentioned about there being two standards of officiating a game of football. Law 12 is crystal clear that the infringements that are penalised are (and I think quite rightly) the same wherever on the pitch they are committed, it's just the sanctions - free kick / penalty dependent on location and whether it was a cautionable or sending off offence - that are different. There is always a degree of subjectivity about any decision from the point of view of the official, but to start introducing a further 'level' in terms of aspects like whether a ball was 'unplayable' or not - almost always a subjective point - would surely be impossible?
Looking at Evra / Gerrard on Saturday, Evra dived in when he probably didn't need to and should have stayed on his feet, Gerrard suckered him in to committing the foul. There would be no argument that it was a free kick outside the area even if Gerrard had lost the ball, so it follows that there shouldn't be any question about whether it was a penalty or not (if only it were always that simple...!)
Like many things in football, it's never perfect but the parties involved generally agree that the laws as they stand are pretty much spot on; JT's overturned red a great case in point - rules crystal clear, Halsey applied them wrongly. Listening to even some of the most sensible pundits on the subject was terrible - so many of them didn't have a basic understanding of what they were talking about; the number of times you heard (and still hear in relation to other incidents) about the 'last man' - again, potentially a subjective term - which simply does not appear anywhere in the laws.
(You only have to see what happens when Blatter starts banging on about changing a certain aspect of the laws as a headline grab before a tournament - things can start to unravel.)
Our reserves -- including Mancienne, Di Santo, Stoch, and Mineiro -- just lost 4-0 to Spuds reserves (including Bentley, Bale, Huddlestone, Chimbonda, and Pavlyuchenko.
Just doing my bit to keep Dr. Bayou in business between Saturdays.
Reply to KaiserJonny_II:
Evening to you as well KJ.
Points taken, but perhaps it is worth a bit of expansion. You are absolutely right that there is only one standard of officiating. My point is that subjectively, that standard has become split. Moderate fouls that would be called outside of the box (such as Barry's penalty appeal against Spuds) are not called in the box because the referee is reluctant to give penalties.
This, to me, is problematic.
You can quite clearly see defenders and attackers play a different way inside and outside of the box. Some of this is inherently natural, as the risk/reward structures dictate a certain type of play. A low percentage tackle is worth trying far up the pitch, but it makes no sense in the box. But, I feel there is a less-than-hidden flipside to that. Certain play that would be called outside of the box is reserved for defending inside the box because defenders know it is not likely to be called.
As Graham Poll indicated in his famous punditry piece, refs are worried about changing the game, especially unnecessarily. A non-existent foul leading to a penalty can put the game to bed. Sit back, 1-0 win, and that's that. Defenders get a feel for what they can get away with, and they push the limits.
So because refs are reluctant to give penalties, and to book stars, defenders capitalize on this.
As to determining whether it is on goal or not, well, to a certain degree that is what happens now. Fouls are not given because they don't seem to warrant a penalty.
I want to see consistency in officiating the game. I want to see more red cards for dangerous tackles. I want to see fewer cards for 50/50 ball incidents. I want to de-incentivize diving. I want more scoring from free play, and less scoring from penalties, set plays and corners.
Sometimes I feel that what people want, and what the rules are just don't coincide.
There are things I wonder about. Why is the area that the goalie can use his hands in the same one that requires penalties? I believe that there has to be a restriction on goalies using their hands. The current box size seems to work well. Rarely do you see a keeper getting close to the edge. Not only is there a danger of an inadvertent handball, but tactically it is problematic.
I don't want multiple lines all over the field. But why does crossing that line earn you a penalty? In theory, you could argue it is because you have a player who can take the ball with his hands. In practice this is rarely so. If you were concerned about that, you could easily make a rule where it is a penalty when the GK trips the player of the ball with his hands.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a defensively minded guy. I'm a GK, and good defense warms my heart. Yet I believe the game should be won through quality attacking play, not cynical fouls, simulation and penalties.
Everyone loves Leo Messi. Only a mother can love Marco Materazzi. Attacking play should be at a premium. This isn't NASCAR. People don't go to see the car crash.
On my Gerrard point- I don't think you should be able to win a foul by playing the ball out of bounds. That seems very silly to me. If Evra doesn't tackle him, Gerrard doesn't retain that ball. It goes out for a goal kick! Why should that play be a penalty? Beyond the fact that it is. My question is why should we put a premium on cynical play like that?
I understand that it would be a foul outside the area. Part of the problem is that outside of the area the situation isn't quite as desperate. You don't have to make that tackle, and accordingly- you don't expect that tackle to be made so you don't play the ball out in order to earn the penalty. And so the defender would have a chance at the ball in most cases.
My issue is that Gerrard never intended to turn that into a shot. He always wanted it to be a situation where he was cut down.
Reply to Be_Champions:
'I want to see consistency in officiating the game. I want to see more red cards for dangerous tackles. I want to see fewer cards for 50/50 ball incidents. I want to de-incentivize diving. I want more scoring from free play, and less scoring from penalties, set plays and corners. '
I agree with Be Champions on this point (partially because we seem utterly useless at either attacking or defending free kicks and corners!), but I would really rather we not mess around with the rules too much.
I don't agree though that the game is all about attacking. If it was, Arsenal and Barca should win everything. The best teams are those able to attack and defend in equal measure, and surely our experiences earlier in the season, should be evidence enough for that.
In terms of the Gerard point, if the defender is stupid enough to attempt a tackle when the ball is going away from goal and out of danger, then he is a fool.
But as we all know, Evra has always been a 'fucking immig-' errr, I mean idiot!
i'm reliably informed platini and his mates have successfully tested a hot-ball-cold-ball system for the draw.
Interesting debate on the penalty decisions. There is one situation that perhaps a change in the rules should be applied.
It's when the goalkeeper is beaten by a shot and a player handles the ball on the line to prevent a goal, sometimes an instinctive reaction, sometimes cynical. Of course the result would be a penalty and a red card.
But we all know that there is no certainty that the penalty would be scored, and that scenario could be in the last minute of a game where the attacking team are searching for an equaliser.
So my radical rule change would be taking a leaf out of the rugby rules. That's when the attacking team have a scrummage 5 metres out, and the defending team collapse the scrum on purpose to prevent a pushover try.
The ref then awards a penalty try, thus giving them more points, as opposed to the penalty kick.
So why can't we see a goal given, instead of the spot kick, and the inevitable sending off?
Well, things are certainly getting deep on here now, and with no mid-week game to detract, we may well have re-written the rule book by the time we get drawn against Liverpool on Friday.
Clive - like the idea of the goal being given for handball preventing a goal in open play, but we're still left at the mercy of referees being able to 'determine' if the ball was actually headed in, or would have hit the post, gone wide etc.
I just want to see the removal of penalty shootouts. Hate the damn things (being English and a Chelsea fan, with good reason, you must agree). I propose we adopt the shootout as seen in ice hockey, where players collect the puck on the half way line before dribbling toward goal and trying to score. Unfortunately, this would lead to enormous amounts of 'cocking around' as someone liek Ronaldo dribbles the ball from the half way line, but at least it introduces a bit of skill to proceedings. And gives us a chance to see just how rubbish at football some of the centre back cloggers are.
Reply to Fiftee:
I'm reminded of the Big Train sketch whjere the runner either responds to the starting pistol too early oe miles too late but when he does get it right can't run in straight line.
LINK
The best idea and the one I fancy the most if the penalty shoot out must remain is for the penalties to be taken BEFORE kick off. The result would only stand if the teams are level after extra time. Some might say this would enscourage a team to hold on for a dull draw but we all know football doesn't work that way. Extra time would become a balance between a team defending a lead or trying to gain a lead. No team would really try and hang on for the penalty result to decide and if they did then it would make for gripping stuff.
People might think there's something gladiatorial about sapped minds and bodies shooting penalties after 120 plus minutes of draining football, but after Moscow it just became a sadistic spiteful lottery.
Reply to Fiftee:
Your alternative to a penalty shootout sounds like a much better way, and perhaps just to add to it, the attacking player has a certain ammount of time to score it as well. That should stop the showboating from the winker!
I love penalty shoot-outs! They are completely fair - no team has any advantage beyond their natural ability, the amount they have practiced and their nerve. The only thing that galls me is refs allowing goalkeepers do just about whatever they want to put off the striker, including standing five yards off their line.
Interesting debate though - I'm intrigued as to what rule changes Be_Champions think could be realistically made to cut out these discrepencies and reduce the chances of 'soft' penalties being conceded (the Park penalty was, for me, even softer than the Gerrard one - but both were penalties all the same).
Reply to moffat:
Well, everybody around (simply everybody) talks about this "cold ball, hot ball" cheat system. The prediction is that Man USA is getting Liverpool and Barca is getting one of the remaining English sides; either Arsen-Anal or us. However, more people tend for Arsen-Anal to Barca. I am really thrilled, let's see what it is going to be.
Reply to Be_Champions:
Interesting reply, Be_Champs - aside of anything else, I think you should expand the points you've made into an article which I'm sure Nick would be happy to post; would be an good to read as you've clearly put some thinking into your point of view.
The broader issue of what we've been talking about for me is the overall debate on football, its laws and also how the off-field influences (the influence of money, mainly) affect what happens on the pitch during a game. Football (certainly not in this country anyway) has never been very good at analysis of broader issues as most coverage tends to concentrate on the headlines and controversy in any incident, rather than the wider picture. What you've said about the Gerrard incident is a good example; I don't agree with you on this particular point, but raising the question as to whether the law and its interpretation is actually good for the game is far more thoughtful than Chris Kamara concentrating purely on whether the referee got it right or wrong (which is of course important anyway). The usual punditry and analysis (having some hacks reviewing the papers on "Sunday Supplement" anda few ex-pros sitting on the "Goals on Sunday" sofa trotting out Sky approved cliches and so on) isn't really good enough for a game so many people care about, I think.
I'm probably a contradiciton on this in terms of my view; I think the laws as they stand are good and having ploughed through them at length (yes, need to get out more...) I don't think there is a way of changing them without introducing too much subjectivity into the equation. That said, I don't think the game is particularly receptive to new ideas, often because of how they are presented to us (usually Blatter making grand proclamations a month before a big tournament); we shouldn't discount ideas just because they differ from the status quo, but at the same token we shouldn't fiddle with the laws just because we can.
Cont...
A few points have been made already, but how about anyone that fancies pitching in posts up the 5 things they'd change if they were running FIFA and why they think it would improve the game? Can be anything - bigger goals to salary caps or extra linesmen* - go on, you know you want to...
* hanging Blatter / Rafa / Mike Riley up by Big Ben from their knackers and pelting them with rotten fruit type ideas, whilst entirely valid, isn't what I'm getting at here...
While we're on the topic of the rules/refereeing it's definitely worth holding your nose/holding on to nurse and dipping an occasional toe in the Daily Mail just to confirm what a wild mixture of overweening self-regard and celeb bootlicking/badmouthing the well-known A***hole Graham Poll still demonstrates in his scribblings.
Last Saturday's column is possibly some sort of classic - endorsing the highly dubious propositions that referees should start with a gameplan and respond differently if one of the sides plays really well or really badly before indulging in some ambivalent nonsense about Old Purplenose and The Winker:
LINK
Thank God for compulsory retirement for refs.
Reply to Clive:
Didn't the MLS have a 'penalty' from the halfway line with a time limit a while back - think it was actually a standard for all games that ended in a draw?
In no particular order :
1 - Can we fucking sit down and sort out offsides. Where's the need for all this phase 1 and phase 2 bullshit. Either you're onside or offside when the ball is passed. Simple.
2 - Caps. Of the International variety. You will not earn a cap if the game is a friendly, or you don't play at least half a game. No-one likes to go on and on about history, but the history of the England team contains a few names that are legends that I never saw. Hello Bobby Moore. But for someone to rack up a cricket score in England caps because we play 2-bob countries in friendlies every fortnight does not constitute you being classed in the same company as true greats. Capiche?
3 - Assistant referees. They're linesman o.k? They flag for fouls, goals and offsides and generally run up and down the line. Hence linesman.
4 - Games kicking off at 3 o'clock on a Saturday. Doesn't happen enough. It was the staple diet of me growing up. All but one game kicked off at 3 on a Saturday, with the odd luxury of a single Sunday game, more often than not of the Cup variety. I would ensure a minimum of AT LEAST 90% of games being played as God intended. None of this 'quarter past 2 on a Thursday' gubbins.
5 - A salary cap. Because I'm sick and tired of struggling to find a house that I deem good enough for my family that I can afford, when some people punt a ball around for a few hours a week and could pay cash for it in a fortnight. Then proceed to get shitfaced in a club, pick fights with the police, throw up on one-night stands, drive Ferraris into walls and generally not need to care.
Join the real world...
Reply to KaiserJonny_II:
Well I'll kick off with what I mentioned earlier
1 The goal being allowed to stand if handballed on the line.
2 The hot topic about goal line technology, did it or didn't cross the line.
3 I'll steal Fiftees idea of replacing the penalty shootout with a player running with the ball from the halfway line.
4 Football pitches to be a standard size, not the minimum/maximum criteria
5 And again to steal more rugby ideas, a 10 min sin bin for players on certain offences (no idea what though)
1 Restructure Champions League so only top two qualify, remove group stages and reduce prize money, returning difference to UEFA Cup.
2 Encourage retrospective refereeing. Pedersen should have been booked for his dive on Saturday; Diouf should get a red. If a player gets a yellow card for a red card offence, upgrade it. Forget this ridiculous notion that you can't punish a player if the referee has already seen the incident. Plus, increase suspensions for dangerous tackles.
3 Goal line cameras.
4 Deliberate handball on the line - award either a goal or a penalty, but not a penalty AND a red card.
5 When keepers get sent off, you can't bring on a substitute keeper. Make the small fella stand in goal, like the old days.
Reply to Fiftee:
Salary cap, just because you can not find house??? Means, if one is talentless person who can not sort out his/her own life everybody around must be equal to him/her! Is your real name Lenin, or Stalin by any chance?
Reply to Blue_MikeL:
Umm, no. No it's not.
I never said anything about people being equal, hence 'salary cap'.
I was merely relating the struggles of 'real world' people to the earning power of footballers.
Although why I'm explaining my point to you, I have no idea.
Yes, recent events around the world have really shown the value of letting 'talented' people pay themselves ridiculous amounts of money.
Reply to Blue_MikeL:
Not everybody. On purely Health and Safety Grounds I believe that they now use smooth balls with the target ball or balls subjected to a good ol' rubbing with a cheese grater. Hence the saying "You take the rough with the smooth".
@ Fiftee
I understand your viewpoint but why single out footballers while short Americans get paid ridiculous sums of money for standing on orange boxes in front of a film camera and ruining prfectly good films by their simpering, self regardings twatishness, some of whom then go on to propogate nonsense about us all having aliens living in us or some such. (of course Messrs Newman, Redford, Bridges et al desrve every penny and are exempt from this rant).
@JD
Good debate you've started.
1. Stopping(visible)Clock. You can't stop people feigning injury to break up the flow but you can make sure that the full 90 is played. It also means you allow injured players back on after treatment (set a max time for on pitch treatment) so defending sides don't get penalised for genuinely hurt players not being available at the restart.
2. Book goalkeepers for leaving the goal line and approaching the kicker or interfering with the ball once a penalty is awarded.
3. Give the ref one of those gizmo's estate agents use for measuring up then you know the wall is 10m.
4. Give the ref a pack of yellow cards with 2 of each player number. He tears one each time he books a player. Then he can't award 3.
5. Allow the goalscorer to put his shirt over his head.
3. Give the ref one of those gizmo's estate agents use for measuring up then you know the wall is 10m.
@BB
They've started to experiment with something similar in South American football. LINK
Reply to PeteW:
I agree re:Champions League. They can also lose the group stages from the UEFA Cup (or whatever bland title UEFA have renamed it from next season). I'm sure overall levels of TV revenue wouldn't be affected. Knock out games between the biggest teams in Europe may command more of a premium tv rights wise than the current bore-fest (Let's face it I can barely be arse about Chelsea's involvment in the Group Stage). In addition, there would be better teams in the UEFA cup which may also help money wise.
It would also cut down on the amount of fixtures, which clubs seem to think is a good thing until they realise this means money is at stake.
I'm with petew on the changes. The ones i'd definitely like to see are:
1. Goal line cameras
2. Officiating the game afterwards again and handing 3 match bans for diving, dangerous tackling etc. even if it means punishing twice for some fouls.
1.) Penalty shoot out before the ggame kicks off. A good crowd warmer and a way of getting the boozers and corpoprates to their seats for kick off instead of disturbing the ones who made the effort to be there on time.
2.) Sin bins as an option before a second yellow...hence two silly yellow card offences (time wasting, shirt over head etc) still penalise a team but not to the detriment of the game. Time limit of 10 minutes but if the game has less than 10 mins to go then thats it for the player...but no red card ban.
3.) Remove the 3rd and 4th place CL berths and replace one place with FA Cup winners thereby putting some incentive back into the old girl.
4.) Stop the bollocks with CL 3rd place teams dropping into the UEFA Cup. If you don't finish top 2 then tough shit, you're out.
5.) Offside - a curve ball here...
a.) abolish it altogether which will make defenders have to work harder
b.) Draw a line to the edge of the pitch from the start of the penalty area behind the D. Offside can only occur goal side of that line so from the halfway line to the edge of the area a player can no longer be offisde when he receives the ball.
So many more things.......
Reply to Clive:
I can just see it. Another atrocious decision, ref pursued by incensed players whipe out his spray can, "Get back you bast**ds or I'll let you have it". Players put shirts over heads to protect eyes, more bookings....
ooh err not "whipe" but "whips"
1. Man Utd receive only 2 pts for a win instead of three.
2. Man Utd automatically relegated one division every fifth season.
3. Man Utd given automatic entry to the CL every season, but penalised by the suspension of three players fo every round they adance, those players to be selected by the manager of their next opponents.
4. Two special "Man Utd" trophies awarded automatically every season to Man Utd, one in February and one in May, so their fans can still have the satisfaction of seeing silverware in the cabinet. Trophy awards to be accompanied by confetti, fireworks, hour-long specials on Sky Sports News, cheering crowds (hired actors if required), lap of honour, sycophantic interview between Man Utd manager and cringing TV hack.
5. Salary cap for every team in the world *except* Man Utd, who can pay their players as much as they like, thus allowing all players the choice of being ultra rich but subject to rules 1 through 4, if they want. Man Utd to be supported financially by all the other teams in the league to compensate for probable lack of revenues caused by rules 1 to 3.
Ah yes I forgot this until I saw it mentioned on another site.
Alan Pardew - remember "the face in the crowd".
It was established that he had season tickets at Chelsea.
Sunday he was the summariser on R5 live. He mentioned having see Chelsea a "few times" this season - nod nod wink wink I thought.
Some sensible comments for once rather than putting up with Waddle or some such Chelsea hater.
Well then he turned up on MOTD2 with the West Brom Croat(Chiles) and Hansen. During the post game analysis they're looking at Essien's performance, which Pardew has obviously enjoyed.
Anyway, one clip shows Essien approach a player blind side, lever him aside and head of with the ball. Pardew chuckling says something along the lines of "he absolutely rapes him". I did a double take and quietly said to myself, well he wont be invited back.
Did anyone else see it? Apparently it's on You Tube.
Oh yes and don't forget when Manure win the Quintuple it doesn't mean they won everything the entered. They lost the European Super Cup.
i would like to see referees given pepperspray to deal with the likes of cashley and neville(the uglier one.)
Reply to BlueBayou:
Dr Bayou
I was also watching this and heard the comment. I did do a double take and then rewound the segment (the wonders of modern hard disk technology)...even on the re-run it was hard to differentiate between 'rapes' and 'rakes' which was my intial thought.
But today it transpires he has apolgised and the general thinking is he won't be invited back in a hurry...he was only standing in for Lee Dixon anyway.
Reply to ChelseaTony:
I quite liked Pardew's little faux-pas as an alternative to the usual pundit speak.
"I don't think he's just raped him there, Alan, he's forced a satsuma into his mouth, made him wear a vulcanised rubber gimp mask and beaten him until he whelped like a well-shackled Tory MP."
Calling Dr. Bayou...
@JD
I think we can see what internet sites you frequent JD. :)
'standing in for Lee Dixon'
These could be the five saddest words in the English language.
Reply to Clive:
It is 10 yards between the ball and the wall as the rules dictate and not 10 metres. In Continental Europe (metric system) it is 9 metres, which is approximately 10 yards.
Blue Bayou might appreciate this article on Hillsborough, and its (too brief) mention of the Catholic nature of Liverpool and their fans consequent relationship with guilt.
LINK
Reply to Blue_MikeL:
Haha Clive,
That's you told.
Tsk.
Reply to PeteW:
Interesting stuff pete. Thanks. I am likely to be a bit controversial here but as much as I detest Liverpool as a club, and its fans (mainly due to their inability to accept the recent power shift in football - for me they are the new Leeds) I utterly refuse to join in the Murderers chanting and the 'You killed your own fans' bollocks emanating from all areas of SB. It is so utterly distasteful and wrong. One thing about Liverpool is that as a City despite it's collective cowardice over the turning in the Rhys Jones muderers, it has never sought to make capital from Heysel or Hillsborough. I have seen little else but dignified comment and sorrow at what happendd on both occasions...whereas...and herein lies the controversy, it does seem to me that since my boyhood Man Utd have shamelessly milked Munich to build the legend and the myth of the Busby Babes. It could just be my own perception, but as much as tragedies should be appropriately remembered I get a sense that in Manchester any chance to bring up the tragedy of Munich is taken and paraded like some sort of morbid trophy, whereas Liverpool...fans, players, residents on the blue side rather prefer not to discuss it, let alone parade it.
BTW - if the last point upsets anyone then just remeber, it's my perception only. I don't join in the runway songs either, nor the Spurs 'gassing' chants notr the 'rapist' stuff to RVP. Irrational hatred and bile is part of football fandom. references to tragedies and genocide have no part in that.
Believe it or not, there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.
I'm going to take some typing lessons as my old friend Ed Itfacility looks like he's gone forever.
Always thought the 'murderers' was more to do with Heysel than Hillsborough.
But it's basic human decency not to join in those chats, there's really no excuse (I did enjoy singing 'he's only a poor little...' at Spurs back in the day, but no more). Honestly have to say I've only heard 'spurs are on their way to Aushwitz' once and that was nearly 20 years ago and have never heard mass singing of the Munich songs - inside the ground at least. But the Hillsborough stuff is becoming increasingly common, almost casual. If somebody had told me that in 1989 Chelsea fans would be celebrating the deaths of fellow football supporters, I'd never have believed them.
'You killed your own fans' really is sick and most of the Chelsea fans who sing it should know better, as anybody at football in the 1980s knows what policing and crowd control - and fan behaviour as well, us included most definitely - was like.
Reply to Fiftee:
Fiftee I don't mind being corrected if I'm wrong, but the original post with the wall distance was from BB
So I take very little notice of replies from people who get things wrong. Of course that doesn't include you mate, or BB ;-)
In reaction to a few points here:
Hilsborough, Heysel, Munich- I'm not English, it isn't my place to comment. I don't know enough, can't know enough.
Rules issues:
We've seen I'm a bit concerned about penalties. Now for other things:
1) Salary Cap. I want to talk about this, but I'll address it last as it is the biggest issue.
2) Goal Line Technology/. Has to be implemented. Simple as that. Tennis uses it, to quite good effect. They even use a technology with nothing in the ball. Ball is smaller, faster, and more difficult to determine whether it is over the line. I have not heard one peep that Hawkeye is not good.
Simple way of implementing into the game- in a dodgy situation, play on until the technology determines it is in. This should be within a few seconds. If it is a goal, whistle blows- Goal. All subsequent play does not count. Cardable offenses do. Same way you can get carded during a stop in play.
3) Handball on the line penalties. This has to be a penalty and a red, and I'll explain why. I can't say that I like it. But, look at what happens when it is only a penalty, no red for all offenses. Defenders have no incentive not to palm the ball off the line. It will always be a goal, so why not a) turn a sure goal into a high percentage penalty, b) always do it, because maybe you don't get caught.
Without the card, there would be more handballs.
Now, inadvertent handballs on the line- penalty, no card, or a yellow. Not totally sure on which one makes sense. But you can't have a foul prevent a goal.
4) 10 yard spray. Why not? makes a lot of sense. Anything that helps a referee keep order and implement the rules fairly should be allowed. As for walking 10 yards, it is actually something that you can learn to do quite accurately. We don't need measuring things, just MORE PROFICIENT REFEREES...
damn. it seems I forgot to close one of my bold tags. My apologies.
Sin bin
offside
shirts
Retrospective refereeing
No bold this time, as I clearly am not qualified to use it.
5) Sin Bin- could work. Not totally sure of it as a concept. Other sports use it- Ice Hockey, and Water Polo come to mind. As in those- you should come back on when the opponent scores.
6) Offside- Oddly, I think the most sensible offside rules put forth so far are in place. I have often played in leagues with no offside. It turns the game into hockey, where you put a player out there to interfere with the goalie. You don't have to intentionally physically impede him to do this. Don't think it would be good.
7) Shirts- I love the shirt over the head. Shouldn't be a card. A few seconds of celebration has its place in the game. Card people for delay of game, not excessive celebration. The NFL has this problem as well.
8) Retrospective refereeing- Has to be done. The FA has this odd sense of Stare Decisis- where the first ruling on the field is controlling. That isn't how most court systems work that have appellate levels. When video shows new evidence, either of a brutal tackle, or diving, faking, etc. then cards should be given out. Diving has to be stopped. This is a great way to do it. You would have to look at 1, maybe 2 issues per game, so no more than 10 per weekend. You could employ 1 monkey to do this job. Surely the FA is up to it.
I feel a lot of why the FA and UEFA and FIFA are against this is because a clear set of rules on this issue would make it more difficult for them to fudge the rules when they see fit. It would also lead to criticisms of referees. Yet, I also think it would take some weight off of referees if it isn't used punitively against them. If a tackle looks bad, but they aren't sure if it is a straight red, they don't have to book. Something will happen later. Similarly, clear dives can be carded, but mostly a no decision can be used when unsure in the box.
On to Salary caps...
I have been detained by work matters and now have to leg it but there is much to consider.
I beg mercy for my howler re the yard rule. In a European context do they go with 9m? Thats 0.1512m closer. mmm Investigation required.
@PeteW
Thanks I will read later
I have been requested by the British Medical Council to point out that I cannot use the apellation Dr in a medical context. I don't want to bore you with minor details, it was just a bit of ill fitting carpet, an unfortunate stumble, outstretched arms, female patient, dreadful misunderstanding, unnecessary and vindictive disciplinary procedure and so on and so on, change of career blah blah
(sorry do want chips with that?)
Salary Cap-
The big one.
Most US sports have salary caps. This is NOT going to be a "The USA does it, so you should too" kind of post. But, since I know all of these sports and the cap relatively well, I feel I can share some insights into how this works.
The first thing you have to think about is why you want a salary cap. Is it because you want fairness, or because you don't like paying footballers a ton of money? If it is the latter, then that money goes to the greedy pockets of the owners.
There are 3 major cap systems in the US- Football (NFL), Baseball and Basketball. I'm not going to talk much about Basketball, as the mechanisms are byzantine and stupid. The NFL is quite interesting, and Baseball is merely OK for baseball- but might make more sense for European Football (specifically in Europe, and I'll explain why).
NFL has a hard cap. Contracts are structured in complicated ways with varying levels of payment so that a particular player "counts" against the cap in various amounts over his contract year to year. Also, there is a hard 53 player team limit. This is more complicated in Football, as youth teams make calculating a firm total amount difficult.
Baseball has a soft cap, essentially a luxury tax. There is a limit, and when you go over you pay a tax that goes to the other teams that haven't exceeded the limit. This, for baseball, is very stupid. There is a firm 32 team league, so the rich are always able to outspend the poor. Some TV money is pooled, some is not. Merchandise goes straight to the team that sells it.
One of the reasons Salary Caps make sense in these sports is that there is no relegation. Teams can structure contracts knowing that they will exist in the same league, with similar revenues, and the same TV money each season.
On to analysis-
I think a "luxury tax" cap might work for European Soccer and here's why.
Any big team that is going to be capped is also playing in Europe to some degree. They have to think about a cap in their own FA, as well as UEFA.
The financial structures of leagues and the financial incentives are very different. Some leagues allow debt, some don't. Some require you to pay for your stadiums, others have government subsidies. Very tough to equalize things so that one firm number for player salaries is fair.
What a luxury tax will do is allow teams to pay players whatever they want, but if the aggregate of the team goes over a certain amount, the team pays an additional amount, a fixed percentage of the excess, back to the league, which is then equally allocated to teams that are under the cap.
I don't know how to make it work for transfers- perhaps the easy way is to set it at 40M pounds per year, for buying regardless of selling, and anything over gets taxed.
This makes some sense for the Prem, because it isn't a fixed league. Teams worried about relegation don't want to spend too much, because once they go down they might have to sell everyone if there is a lower league cap. It also gets some of the Big 4 money and sends it to smaller teams, rather than merely stopping them from paying money that they have.
This could then extend to the Champions League as well. Teams in the CL over a certain cap would forfeit some of their group stage money to teams under the cap. Then in the knockout, you get paid for games you appear in. Not sure if you want to tax it.
You might be asking "why should big teams pay little ones"? The makeweights contribute to that league. Think of the league as a product, not of the team as the product. Football fans don't want to see the Harlem Globetrotters win every time, they want a league they can win.
Reply to Clive:
So, you and your friends are always right disregarding of what they say? Hmmmmm.....
By the way I just pressed the button reply below the post where this info appeared. I did not really care, if it was message from The Righteous One (Clive) and his friends. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply to Be_Champions:
Groy,
what are you saying? compendiously!
Been taking a potion of Habs?
It appears it's National Troll Day today... must make a note for next year in my diary.
Reply to Blue_MikeL:
What the fuck are you on about?
Here some interesting stats...LINK
Great debate about the rule changes despite Moffat regularly popping up with his bollocks. Here's my top 5:
1. Technology - The cameras are there so why not use them? As well as this, we should definitely see the return of the TV screens in the dugout. I love it when managers can see that the ref has cocked it up and shouts some abuse at him. The replays are shown on the big screens anyway, so 40000 will see his mistake. I've always wondered how refs must feel when they make a terrible decision and then see it on th big screen a few seconds later? Fully explained after point 2.
2. Challenges - Just like tennis, each manager or captain gets 3 challenges for any incident he likes. You lose a challenge for a wrong decision and you keep it if you are proved right. This means you can challenge whether the ball went over the line (JT would have done it against Juve), or challenge a red card (the manager would have done it at Anfield after seeing it on the screen in the dugout in the Lamps-Alonso incident) or challenge a penalty (Wenger would have done it 4 years ago when Rooney dived when running past Campbell). The decision would then get referred to an official in front of the screen who has no contact with the ref (therfore impartial) who would then give the decision. The refs are so stupid that he may get it wrong but at least we'll all see how stupid he is.
3. Retrospective refereeing. An obvious one but i'd also add that you should be able to appeal yellows which have led to a ban (e.g. two yellows to make a red or your 5th/10th yellow of the season).
4. Set piece changes - A 10yrd spray for the wall to stand behind and making sure keepers stay on their line at pens. If in doubt, use a challenge as you'd get 1 more for extra time and another one for the pens.
5. A new Super CL. This top 4 rubbish has lowered the quality of the CL and a real CL for the Champions and runners-up of the major leagues would be great.
Reply to Be_Champions:
Just by way of observation, I started playing hockey again two years ago after a gap of 12 years or so. During this time, as you state, they did bring in the no offside rule. I have to say it hasn't noticeably changed the game. There is no real amount of goal hanging and goal keepers are protected from direct impedement. If anything it has got rid of any frustrations from the amount of incorrectly called off side decisions.
I'm not suggesting this should be applied in football, I agree that the current rules are fine, it is just the inconsistent application of them that is proving to be the problem.
Reply to Agh57:
Interesting stuff.
My thought is that football is a different enough game that it could become a problem. You could probably spare both strikers and still defend with 8 men. You can't do that in Hockey. The blue line rule in Hockey works a bit differently as well. A "neutral trap" would never work in Football, as you could play a deep ball in due to the running/ball movement disparity, which isn't as great in hockey.
Still, I think it would be worth a shot. I'd love to see two quality teams play a friendly where they agree to no offsides. I wonder how the game would change at a very high level?
The sweeper might become popular again, this time as something closer to a deputy goalkeeper.
Salary Caps: Australia has a Salary Cap for the AFL, Rugby League and A-League(football). In Rugby and AFL all players need to fit within the cap and this is strictly enforced. Interestingly player rights and endorsments also need to fit within the cap, so it would be hard to see this system working in European Football, as the likes of Ronaldo, Beckham etc make as much money off the field as on it.
The A-League also has a cap, however each team has one 'marquee' player whose wages are not included in the tally. This means that each team effectively has 1 star player around whom the club revolves.
All three leagues are very even and are rarely won by the same sides year after year.
However the major difference is in the player draft, whereby each team (in AFL and NRL) take turns to pick a player based on their final position the previous year (first picks last, last picks first, etc). In my opinion, this is what keeps thew competition competitive, rather than the Salary Cap.
I guess it depends what you want from your league. If it's a level playing field, that's fine. But with football being a world wide sport, the cost of living being different in each country, clubs receiving different sponsorships, and govt subsidies varying from country to country, I personally think any Salary Cap will be impossible to enforce in Europe.
On a different note, here's some more bollocks regarding Chelsea and transfers:
LINK
Liverpool and Manchester City are monitoring the progress of Michael Mancienne with a view to making a transfer bid. The Chelsea defender’s contract expires at the end of next season and both clubs are considering attempting to lure him from Stamford Bridge in the summer with the promise of more regular football.
Mancienne, 21, is due to hold contract talks with Chelsea at the end of the season, but it is by no means certain that he will commit his future to a club he joined at the age of 12. He has been frustrated at his limited opportunities since returning from a loan spell at Wolverhampton Wanderers in January, but he has fared better since Guus Hiddink was appointed interim manager last month and is grateful for the faith shown in him by the Dutchman.
After being ignored by Luiz Felipe Scolari, Mancienne made his Chelsea debut in the FA Cup fifth-round tie away to Watford and did well enough to start the Barclays Premier League match against Wigan Athletic a fortnight later.
Although he will remain with the first-team squad, Mancienne’s opportunities are likely to be limited for the rest of the season because Ricardo Carvalho has returned to full fitness, which could convince him that the time is right to move on.
Mancienne will listen to Chelsea’s plans for him in the summer but will take an open-minded approach to other offers, particularly those from high-profile Premier League clubs."
Of course we'd want to get rid of the only player in the past 5 years to make it through our youth system, who's been with the club since he was a kid and is a great future prospect to partner JT. And of course he'd be a first-team regualar at Liverpool ahead of Carragher, Skrtel and Agger. Absolute bollocks.
I see 'Mavis' Riley was on top form in the Arsenal v Hull game again last night...... How hard can it really be to get a referee that can get decisions right?
Introduction of technology has to be on my list of things that need to change in football. There is just no reason why clubs should accept wrong decisions, when tv replays can confirm the correct decision 9 times out of ten. When a decision is too close to call, it should be put back to the referee and his original decision stands.
I would use the technology for disputed goals, offsides and bad tackles. In all of these instances the game stops anyway, so there would be no need for things to be delayed.
Habs,
Did have a chuckle this morning when I read that. I think Michaels agent has had a few moments too many to himself and decided to 'fabricate' what's going on to get his client the best deal.
I'm confident enought to say Ivanovic will be a gonner if Guus stays (he hasn't featured as much as Mancienne). Give Michael all the pre-season games and he'll prove himself more reliable than Alex. And with the 'here and now' JT and Riccy C both broken versions of the title-winning team, there's a good chance one of them will be carrying a knock at some stage. Mancienne will get his chance next season, no doubt.
BlueBayou (108)
Over here it's not 9 but 9.15 meters. Quite hard to measure exactly though. Few years ago some nerd from Cologne University discovered that the distance at freekicks between ball and wall varies from 7 to 10.5 meters (German First and Second Division). That's a lot, isn't it?
So it Arsen-Anal in the semis!!! I am excited to tell you the truth. Big clubs and big managers are tested in this sort of games! This is the real opportunity for us to revenge our league losses. First we get Arsen-Anal than Man USA! In this turbulent season FA Cup will be a good trophy!!!
"Carthargo Delenda Est"
KTBFFH
If what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, then why don't I feel like Hercules right now, or at least a lighter shade of Incredible Hulk green?
A measure of the amount of crapness that has plagued me over the last week or so is to say that I know exactly how the average Villa fan is feeling.
But I'm not a Villa fan and our lads have been doing rather well of late. And it's amazing what a difference that can make.
I know that we can be quick to criticize players and teams that don't perform well, or worse still, don't try, but when they do their best they are contributing in no small way to their supporters well-being.
My point here is that there are many people around, rather than short career sportsmen, who should be wearing celery caps.
Finally got some spare time and logged-in yesterday with five days of catching up to do. Started speedily reading with one hour allocated, but then reached BBs excellent piece and decided to just relax and enjoy.
Four hours later got to here.
Didn't know about the darker side of Turin and BB conveyed a real sense of Gotham City about the place. It's not so surprising then that both Juve and Torino have suffered such extreme tragedies either - football imitating life or vice versa?
And Tony's point earlier is well made - I'm always surprised at how little is made of the Superga disaster. Imagine today that Man Kitty were the darlings of Football GB and Manu (Busby babes et al) were largely forgotten.
Not sure if that's how it is in Italy, but that's certainly how it seems from here.
This week off must seem like a long time to the team and I hope that they're given the chance to rest and sharpen up for the next bout of games.
They've obviously put lots into the last month or so and silly bookings and little injuries are early signs of fatigue setting in.
Greetings to each.
@Blueeyes #123
Thanks for clearing that one up and the stats you give tend to suggest the positioning of the wall needs sorting out.
@PeteW
Thanks for the article and it is a reminder of a quite horrendous day. I agree with you and Tony that there are certain events that should not be the subject of football 'banter' as it were. I suppose some of the chanting is an effort to shock, as large groups of young men (and not so young) have always sought to do but that does not excuse it.
One thing I noticed in the piece was that the author seemed to elide over Heysel.
“The Heysel Stadium disaster of 1985, in which 39 fans had been killed by a falling wall during a riot just before the European Cup final between Liverpool and Juventus, had dealt a blow to the city’s footballing culture. “
In the same way that Liverpool fans suffered at Hillsborough, why not stae that the dead were Juve fans and mostly Italian? Strange.
To this day I cannot get to grips with the way the Sun acted. As the author suggests it was bound up with a very pro-Thatcherite agenda and Liverpool with Hatton in charge was seen along with the miners and one or two others as the last outposts of opposition. I remember the characterisation of the fans and by implication the dead as victims of their own drunkenness and stupidity.
People should be regularly reminded of the depths to which British journalism sank.
One other thought is that the Bradford fire, which killed 56 is never given the same prominence as these 2 incidents. Granted, Liverpool and Juventus are giants of the football world, but it only preceded Heysel by 18 days. Despite having seen both tragedies on TV, until I looked the date up I didn’t realise the 2 incidents were quite so close together. What a month for football.
On a lighter note and re your mention of matters Catholic, I remember growing up regarding Liverpool as the Orangeman’s team. I believe that several members of the Orange order were involved in Liverpool’s foundation. And while sectarianism has not been as pronounced as in Glasgow, there is a Protestant and Orange Order tradition in Liverpool. Obviously Liverpool FC draws its support from all comers but for the author to refer to Liverpool as a ‘Catholic’ city is to ignore a strong Protestant tradition with long standing links to Belfast and particularly it’s ship workers.
Hussey does ignore Heysel, but he's written about it before. The standfirst here is interesting, as it suggests Liverpool should in some way be absolved of guilt because it was 'inevitable' and I have some serious quibbles with his notion that Liverpool fans were angels, but it's a thoughtful, heartfelt piece.
LINK
Whenever I think of the Sun's disgraceful reaction to Hillsbrough, I also remember this, closer to home (and from the above article).
'The Echo devoted swaths of space to witnesses' accounts reporting that the riot had been the work of the National Front, Chelsea or Leeds supporters or had even, as one diehard Red insisted, been provoked by disgruntled Evertonians.'
All football fans are hypocrites, of course, but it is this sort of thing that I guess, makes some Chelsea fans feel Hillsborough is fair game, when clearly it isn't. Two wrongs and all that.
And one to add to your booklist, this excellent piece of fiction about Heysel.
LINK
As for sectarianism in Liverpool, I've never managed to get to the bottom of which club is Catholic and which is Protestant. They fact they both sing Celtic anthems ('You'll Never Walk Alone'/'For It's A Grand Old Team') doesn't help, and Liverpool did have a record of playing friendlies against Celtic for years; but then Everton have a Catholic church built into their away end, which should be the clincher in any argument.
In the end, I imagine it doesn't really matter and is doomed to fail as are all attempts to assign a religion to an English club (I note here our own dismal efforts to be the English Rangers some years back, when Arsenal fans made a similar limp attempt to pretend to be the 'Catholic' team of North London because of the Irish community in Islington).
Don't get me wrong, I think that it is only right that Liverpool should pause to remember the fans that lost their lives at Hillsborough.
However, I think it is bloody hypocritical to not then pause to remember Heysel when the efforts of Liverpool fans went a very long way to killing 39 Italian fans.
I hope that doesn't sound too harsh, but let's not forget that for all of the hyperbolic bullshit that the press and tv come out with every time they play in Europe, Liverpool were largely responsible for the single largest act of hooliganism ever perpetrated at a football ground and for the demise of English football in the 80's and 90's.
Reply to PeteW:
Have an Everton supporting mate whose Catholic family have been in the city for generations - grandfather was something of a local hero as a union leader back in the 20's / 30's - reckons that Everton were always the original Catholic club. Sure there are probably Liverpool fans with similar stories, but like you say, the church is the clincher...
Incidentally, the FA are planning to a minute's 'applause' at our semi (not a silence, and not, unsurprisingly, at the Everton-Mancs game) for the 20th anniversary of Hillsborough.
I think this is a terrible idea.
Jonny - interesting, I wonder if it started to change in the 80s when so many Irish fans started to follow Liverpool (and United).
Reply to KaiserJonny_II:
Curious then that there are quite strong links between Everton and Glasgow Rangers recently with more than a dozen players having played for both clubs over the last 25 years or so - most notably Mad Dog Duncan Ferguson?
@Petew - My dimming memories of my days of Scottish football recall "For It's a Grand Old Team" being sung by lot of clubs' fans - including Rangers.
Arse were always regarded as the London Irish of football until Arsewhinge frog marched them into a different sort of Gallic direction.
Talking of M. Arse, why on earth didn't he get sent from the touchline last night?
Even half way through the first half he was bitching and bleating about 'time wasting'.
Hull were openly and understandably slowing the game to suit their style and nullify Arse's physical advantage, and as a tactic it's surely no different to running around frantically trying to speed the game up.
I was very impressed by Phil Browns set-up and but for their lack of quality and depth they would easily have taken the match. It'll be interesting to see how he copes when a bigger side eventually grab him.
Reply to PeteW:
They probably think the silence wouldn't be respected and that applause is a way of masking any 'unpleasantness'.
It's a trick our continental colleagues have used for ages.
Reply to fansincethesixties:
I find the whole 'minute of applause' idea to commemorate the death of 96 people remarkably unpleasant; it just isn't right. That said, having read the views of some of the fuckwits on other sites who seem to want to turn the whole thing into some sort of anti-Liverpool protest, I suppose that silence would probably be completely unworkable. Quite sad, really.
On these cheery notes I think I'll retire for the night.
Reply to KaiserJonny_II:
Minute's applause is a horrendous idea..... Good knows which idiot at the FA thought that one up.
Incidently, on the Scousers, according to the Times, Benitez has signed on to lead them to another 5 years in the footballing wilderness!
Only downside with that is that JM will probably now become the front runner for the Real Madrid job and rule out any chance of a return to Chelsea.
I'm still betting on Jose as a Manky Blue.
Celery Caps:
Like most of us I am concerned by the idiotically inflated wages that some footballers are being paid, not least because it contributes to their equally idiotic and inflated egos, but I can also remember the times when it wasn't like that.
In the good (not so) old days the end of most footballers playing careers meant them either running or propping-up a local bar.
The rare exception had the business sense or advice to provide themselves with a future worthy of someone who had entertained many thousands, or even millions, of people.
Anyone who saw the recent Paul Gascoine interview will have had a glimpse of how all too many players ended up, and not necessarily caused by alcohol abuse.
So I do think that players should get what they're worth although we seem to be going way beyond what is sensible or even sustainable and a middle way needs to be found.
One way of limiting crazy wages might be to ensure that clubs provide adequate pension funds for all players based on a proportion of salaries.
Something like this is probably already in place but the contributions are not yet enough to prevent the current excesses.
A sliding scale so that higher wages meant more going into the communal pension fund would also benefit smaller clubs.
There must also be some concerns about the scouting system which now tries to pick ever younger kids.
What happens to all those who don't quite make it?
It's hard to believe that their education won't have suffered after being courted by clubs and agents from ridiculously young ages.
Reply to PeteW:
Thanks again for more interesting reading Pete. One could discuss that period of football, more for its off the field significance, 'til the cows come home. It was very bound up with major changes in the way not just English but European societies perceived themselves and their aspirations, but that's for another day.
And another book. With all this spending on books, 'cause I don't think they'll have that one in the library, I wont have any money left for drink or feeding the children. (in that order obviously).
Reply to BlueBayou:
Re my current status vis a vis medical matters, it may interest you to know that today at work in a moving 4 hour ceremony full of speeches, orchestral music, poetic rendition but unfortunately no cash changing hands, I received my certificate for attending an "Emergency Aid for Appointed Persons Course".
So bring unto me all the collapsed, the faint, the dismemebered and the bruised, for I can give you aid.
It's the start of my long road back to the pinnacle of medical practice.
I thank you
I was reading Pat Nevin on the club website (and Giles Smith, quality as usual ‘There’s a famous adage that says you should try everything that life offers once, except incest and Morris Dancing. And generally, over the years, I’ve mentally added “rooting for Liverpool” to that short list.’). It is sadly obvious that he does not consult this blog or if he does he has forgotten some of our recent reports.
He has set a competition whereby you associate any player past and present with a vehicle and tell him why.
But our very own Mark has been there and done it, worn the tea shirt and had it laundered at least once.
LINK - comments
A shoe-in for first prize I’d say.
That's 3 in a row do I get a prize?
Reply to BlueBayou:
Shouldn't you be more industrious; you might get a P45! ;-)
Have just seen a funny clip which shows Captain Cesc picking on our wee innocent Michael - perhaps under instructions from Big Phil!
LINK
Has Moffatt been trolling through You Tube? Frank makes his entry at approx 2min 30sec
LINK
Does this make it a Clive 3-in-a-row sandwich?
Reply to ZOneAndOnly:
That doesn't sound good :-)
On a different topic, if all goes to plan Bruce Buck should beon Big Match Countdown. It may seem strange, but he's usually one of the best guests on it as he answers most questions pretty bluntly, like he did in that interview a couple of weeks ago to explain Phil's sacking and a lot of other Chelsea issues.
Bayou,
"Emergency Aid for Appointed Persons Course".
Sounds to me like only appointed persons are able to receive the emergency aid. What sort of workplace-injury-related discrimination is that?
Who gets to pick who does and does not qualify?
ManUre vs Barcelona
Liverpool vs Bayern
Chelsea vs. Porto
Arsenal vs. Villareal
Winner of Manure vs. Winner of Liverpool.
Yes, what about disappointed persons? It seems a little harsh that they should have to endure injury added to insult.
I dreamt last night that we lost 4-0 to Spuds. What made it worse was that in the dream I "woke up", thought "phew thank God that was only a dream" and then it turned out that we actually had lost 4-0 to Spuds. I didn't really get myself sorted out until cup of tea was in hand.
As starts to the day go it wasn't so good. I assume this means that the omens are in and the draw is about to pit us against the 'Poo.
LINK
Hackett is stepping down. I do not believe things will be better, but it is god he is leaving. Yesterday Martin Atkinson missed crucial penalty and red card in Zenith vs Udinese game, after Udinese player handed the ball out of goal. What is it with English referees?
Reply to Fiftee:
It is strange isn't it. I had to copy it off the cert because of the curious wording.
I did wonder whether George Bush and the Christian right are correct and we are in the "Last Days", so its a typo (or code)and I have unwittingly been subsumed into some strange brotherhood who give Emergency Aid to the "annointed"?
Reply to moffat:
Dream draw :-), but I do not believe we will be so lucky.