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Why Avram Grant must go...

Wednesday, 27 February 08, 01:10 PM · Comments (165)

I’m not much of an art historian, but had Michelangelo been sacked from the Sistine Chapel gig for being a bit of a prima donna and generally annoying the Catholic hierarchy, I suspect the incumbent Pope wouldn’t have called in Luigi’s Painters and Decorators and asked them to whack a dollop or two of emulsion into the gaps.

“Don’t you worry, Popey old son - my boy Luigi Jr. will sort it. He’s a bit like Botticelli, but handier with a Black and Decker. We’ll have a spot of panelling over those frescos, drop of magnolia to cover the heavenly choir of cherubs, lovely job…”

I suspect you probably know where I’m going with this cheap line in faux-satire. But I have to find some humour in the current situation down at the Bridge as I’d be crying if I couldn’t.

The reaction to losing a cup final, especially to a team we have generally dominated for two decades, is always likely to be based upon raw emotion rather than rational thought. Some days later, I still can’t feel anything but anger at the manner in which we were defeated by a team who weren’t even particularly good, just better organised by a good coach.

Have you ever seen a more clueless display from any team in a major final, let alone Chelsea?

As ever, if performances and results are unsatisfactory, it is the manager who will be under scrutiny. Avram Grant started well at Chelsea; whilst following Jose Mourinho was always likely to be difficult, the Israeli was diplomatic with the media and put together an excellent run of victories with a depleted squad which confounded his critics. He talked a good game, was disarmingly self-deprecating and the antithesis of his predecessor.

It should be noted that great sides don’t simply vanish when their mentors leave them; this is not to use the lazy argument that it is Mourinho’s team when it wins and Grant's when it loses, far from it. The mentality of a group of proven winners does not change instantly; Jimmy Armfield took Leeds United to a European Cup final which they lost, but it was essentially Don Revie’s team minus his more experienced guiding hand.

Not changing a good deal of what Mourinho built took a degree of courage on Grant’s part. Building upon solid foundations rather than making dramatic changes can reap rewards for a new manager following a successful manager. The AC Milan side that destroyed Johann Cruyff’s exceptional Barcelona in the 1994 Champions League final was managed by Fabio Capello, but in terms of tactical approach and a number of key personnel, they were still broadly Arrigo Sacchi’s team fine-tuned by the current England boss.

So are we simply a ‘team in transition’? Maybe, but use of this hackneyed phrase is often the domain of those seeking excuses for poor form. The fear is that the transition under a relatively inexperienced manager like Grant who has been found wanting when the spotlight falls upon him could be slow, painful and probably expensive. The quick fix would be to indulge Grant in the transfer market this summer, but if he is unable to coax decent performances out of the current squad when it matters, it is hard to see what good throwing more money at him will do.

Despite Grant’s protestations to the contrary, the football this season has generally been less than inspiring, but the performances against Liverpool, Olympiakos and Spurs were truly alarming. With the benefit of an almost complete squad to choose from, Grant looks at a loss as to how to deploy the riches at his disposal and unable to influence a tight game by means of substitution or tactical change. The team spirit, ability to retain and pass the ball, bold tactical changes and the sheer will to win have all but vanished.

Save for a few minutes at the end of extra time on Sunday, the number of shots Chelsea had on target in these fixtures can almost be counted upon one hand. As for the final, failing to offer any kind of genuine test to an unfamiliar back four (two new players, one back from injury and one played out of position) would be unforgivable for Derby, but for a club still in the hunt for three trophies, it is both inexcusable and woeful.

Significant defeats in the Roman era have often spelt the beginning of the end for the resident of the managerial hot seat. Claudio Ranieri’s “Nurse, the screens!” moment in the Champions League semi-final against Monaco; Mourinho’s second capitulation to Liverpool at the same stage of the competition last season. Both were deeply unimpressive performances that apparently convinced the owner change was needed.

For the sake of the stability of the club and the manager himself, Grant should not be subjected to the type of insidious whispering campaigns that undermined both Ranieri and Mourinho. He has also been on the receiving end of some vile personal abuse, which I sincerely hope does not escalate should our form deteriorate further.

Abramovich may have come to dislike the manager who delivered the silverware he craved (or at least some of it), but allowing the legacy he left behind to be squandered simply to prove his own judgement right would be truly unforgivable. There are too many well-funded, hungry teams around us to allow the club to slip into any sort of malaise that may jeopardize our position in the top four.

After the game on Sunday, a friend who has supported Chelsea for many years recalled the fall from grace and disintegration of the great 1970 FA Cup winning side after the 1972 League Cup final defeat to Stoke. To suggest that the same fate could befall the current team after a similar defeat to Spurs may be overly pessimistic, but it is a cautionary tale worth remembering against a backdrop of recent successes.

The results of the next three games could define our season, but will certainly tell us more of the mental and physical state of the team and whether recent form was simply a blip. On evidence available today, to my mind Grant clearly lacks the experience at the very highest level and is therefore not the right man to manage Chelsea Football Club. The overwhelming majority of Chelsea fans, (some ninety million of us if the spin is to be believed), can’t all be wrong.

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Posted by Jonathan Dyer | Comments (165)

165 Comments · Add yours

Yido
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Yido Wrote: | 19.29GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Haha, so bitter about the defeat....we were miles better than you, and what right do you think you have to say that just because you have beat us for the last two decades that you should do in every game.

Grow up, your not a big club, your just a club who's had alot of money and has bought recent success.

See you at the Lane soon.

MikeL
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MikeL Wrote: | 19.48GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Great article JD! I am supporting every word you have said in your writing. Avram MUST GO!!!

martin
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martin Wrote: | 19.54GMT | Feb 27, 2008

One defeat and you guys are ranting for change, its amazing the reaction from you people, and you probably consider yourselves football fans, money fans seems more appropiate, you guys probably change your cars every time it needs to get washed!!!!!!!!!

Small club with money
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Small club with money Wrote: | 19.57GMT | Feb 27, 2008

90 million, don't make me laugh!

David Jackson
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David Jackson Wrote: | 20.07GMT | Feb 27, 2008

I am flabbergasted by your comments! Spurs are brilliant! If I had to combine the two teams together, most of the players would be from Spurs -

Cech, Hutton, Woodgate, King, Terry, Lennon (he's better than Wright-Phillips), Essien (Jenas is as good as him but to be nice to you, I'll pick the Ghanian), Lampard (I would prefer Huddlestone but Lampshade can be great - he wasn't on the day), Malbranque (he's more dangerous than Ballack), Berbatov, Drogba (Keane is brilliant but again I need to be nice for you!) - so we have six from Spurs and five from Chelsea. What does that mean? Spurs are winners! You cannot expect the so-called big four last. They won't - soon you'll see Spurs replace Chelsea and Everton nudging out Liverpool for the Champions League in 2009/10.

JBagley
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JBagley Wrote: | 20.08GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Yido, you mean see us at 3-point-Lane soon.

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 20.18GMT | Feb 27, 2008

> soon you’ll see Spurs replace Chelsea and Everton nudging out Liverpool for the Champions League in 2009/10

Hmm. Maybe not the best analogy, but when you've just been laid for the first time in a decade, it's probably best not to start boasting about the next conquest until it actually happens...

Fifty
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Fifty Wrote: | 20.24GMT | Feb 27, 2008

I see all the White Hart Laners have woken up to smell the Fizzy Pop cup today.

Now sure where they've been since Sunday. Don't want to know.

Dio
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Dio Wrote: | 20.26GMT | Feb 27, 2008

@ Jonathan, as you well know, I predicted since this backstabber helped to worm his way in and push out JM that we would not win anything this year or even when he is here apart from maybe a Carling Cup final simply because of the desire of the opposition that may get to the final. In this case, Spurs, Ramos et all wanted it enough to give any club a run and so it passed that the opposition was greater than the Carling cup itself normally presents in desire. My alarm though is if you think by winning then next three games would somehow redeem this snake? We beat West Ham away 4-1 with 10 men last time, Barnsley? Olympiakos at home? Derby at home? it would be unthinkable that with the world calss players at Chelsea, we dont win ALL of these games!!! As I have said on numerous occasions, it is the 10% that make great managers, and winners, not the 90% of normal games when you have the type of squad we have. It may be okay for teams with inferior finances and who did not have the best manager around to create a double league winning squad, challenging Europe's best over the last three years!! NO...even with the next four games won, Grant's head should still be on the block. Sunderland, Tottenham, Man city and Newcastle away are the games that will tell, not the next Four. And I predict as before we will probably be in danger of slipping to Fourth or worse. 8 points is all that seperates us from 4th! That is JUST TWO GAMES and A DRAW! hardly out of sight! And with this guy in charge, I,m sorry, but everything points to a lot worse than what happended in the cup final over the next 8 weeks...either Roman does something about it NOW! or time to start praying I think!!! The whole premier league feared us, Europe feared us, the media, UEFA feared us! Now...? No more, and we are in danger of squandering all the climob up to the top of the mountain of world football we built up over the last three years. What have you done Roman, what have you done...?

barnsey
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barnsey Wrote: | 20.30GMT | Feb 27, 2008

It just shows at all the money in the world can't buy history, style and skill.Chelsea is a club without class or style who think they can buy anything bceause of Abromovitch. You were convincingly beaten by the better club and our victory is made all the sweeter because of ludicrous remarks contained in the above post.

Fifty
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Fifty Wrote: | 20.40GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Fill your boots guys :

LINK

Bargains galore.

limetreebower
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limetreebower Wrote: | 20.41GMT | Feb 27, 2008

This is odd -- where were all the Spuds fans in the other thread? The one actually about the game? (Where we all acknowledged that Spuds were clearly the better side.) Why are they joining the "Avram Must Go" debate?

Oh wait, they're not joining any kind of debate, they're doing the funny "big club" thing. Tee hee. Well done, Spuds fans, that really hurts!

Very good piece JD, but I'm going to disagree. I've said all along that I don't expect AG to be our manager at the beginning of next season, and I sincerely hope I'm right about that, *but* I don't think an Avram Out campaign will do anything for us at this stage; and, anyway, I think we all know the suits aren't going to admit so quickly that they blew it.

As you rightly point out, both Claudio and José were undermined by lack of support from the suits, with unfortunate effects on the team. For better or for worse (certainly for worse, in my view, but I can't do anything about it) Grant and his assistants have the full support of the owner. If the fans turn against him vocally then the precarious stability will be ruined. I think this has been very noticeable at the Bridge: apart from the thirty seconds of "José Mourinho" chanting during the home draw with Fulham, and the booing of the substitutions in the, ermm, Newcastle game I think it was, the crowd has palpably been reserving judgment, waiting to see how things will turn out. We don't want to be in the idiotic situation that Liverpoo have got themselves into, where the anger of the crowd is messing up the club.

We ought to wait until the end of the season -- as JD (among others) has always maintained up to now. If, as I fully suspect, Grant comes out of the season with nothing, that's the time to make it clear that we expect a competent manager to be brought it, in orderly fashion, over the summer. And the key point is that at that stage, the suits are going to have to agree with us.

We're clearly not going to win the Premiership; we're hugely unlikely to win the Champions League (anyone see a Grant team beating Real/Barcelona/either Milan club/Arse/Man U over two legs? thought not); the FA Cup will likely come down to one game against Man U, and while anything's possible in one game, it's pretty hard to imagine a team that can't control Steed Malbranque and Jermaine Jenas being able to get past Carrick, Rooney and Ronaldo.

So, if we can grit our teeth and be patient, there's a chance of maintaining some continuity at the club while eventually making a change in the one position where the link is weakest (i.e. first team manager, of course).

The youth team is doing well. We're obviously being aggressive in signing good young players for the future (Di Santo, Ivanovic, the Italian kid from Reggiana was it?) The determination to make the team self-funding may be a fantasy but at least it's the right policy in principle. Generally there are a lot of signs that the lack of conflict within the club is helping the overall development.

Grant Must Go -- but not yet.

Think About It
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Think About It Wrote: | 20.43GMT | Feb 27, 2008

There were loads of similar comments about Martin Jol. The difference is that Jol had proved his limitations over 2 seasons and was finally fully exposed in his third. Grant's record in the league compares favourably with Mourhino's and his team plays the same negative tactics that the "Special One" deployed this in my view showing that the Special One was not so special after all. Bear in mind that Jol's team beat you 2-1 at the Lane, and if it wasn't for Jol's incompetence (rather than Mourinho's substitutions) we would have knocked you out of last year's FA Cup as well.

Grant has done OK for you really, but he loses one game and suddenly he is damned as useless. You should pay more attention to the bad influences that are Terry and Lampard and their ability to screw things up. Both are nowhere near as good as they think they are (witness their performances at International level) but were obviously instrumental in breaking-up the team that had been winning for you.

Spurs are not a great side yet, but then neither are Chelsea judged by the footballing standards of Arsenal and ManU. On the day though, Spurs were better than Chelsea. You can argue that the managers made the difference and you could be right. Ramos is probably a better manager than Grant, but with the resources that Grant has at his disposal I am sure he will win more for you than he loses. Time for judgement should not even begin until the end of the season.

limetreebower
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limetreebower Wrote: | 20.44GMT | Feb 27, 2008

@ Dio -- the 10-man 4-1 win over the Spammers was at home, not away. Can't remember what happened when we went away to Upton park last year.

Dio
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Dio Wrote: | 20.55GMT | Feb 27, 2008

@ limetreebower your right mate, my mistake.

Jose Musumba
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Jose Musumba Wrote: | 20.55GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Now this is the worst piece of writing you have done...

Before you get your knickers in a twist...I know this is you opinion but I have to be honest it is filled with too much bias...

You said...

"The reaction to losing a cup final, especially to a team we have generally dominated for two decades, is always likely to be based upon raw emotion rather than rational thought. Some days later, I still can’t feel anything but anger at the manner in which we were defeated by a team who weren’t even particularly good, just better organised by a good coach."

Need I say more? It is the anger speaking...

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 21.00GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Not at all Jose - it was a pitiful, clueless and utterly unacceptable performance that had been coming for some time. Grant is not good enough - that's my opinion.

I wonder how Ramos would have done as manager of Chelsea on Sunday? Think we know the answer to that.

I've never been as openly critical of a manager before, but for the good of the club, this clown needs to go.

Yido
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Yido Wrote: | 21.09GMT | Feb 27, 2008

I hope Grant stays and take you boys down the league to where you should be. Anyway, it's only one game and your all whinging like little girls. Face it, your the most boring team to watch and thats why everyone hates you, and the fact you think you can just buy everyone and everything. As much as I hate the other scum in N London, least they have ethics and are good to watch.

By the way, was nice to not hear you on Sunday, think that says it all about your support, fecking sh1te.

Jose Musumba
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Jose Musumba Wrote: | 21.16GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Would you have said the same if we had won that game?

Or will you still think that if he improves the squad (which played together for the first team in this final) and wins the league/champions league??

I think it is only fair when you count your eggs after they hatch...

If nothing comes through then the "Frog" will need to leave...but until then am going to support him and the rest of the squad...yes even Lampsie...

After all we are seeking to win...hope we are on the same page on this...

Jose Musumba
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Jose Musumba Wrote: | 21.17GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Sorry it was count your chicks...

Jiko
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Jiko Wrote: | 21.18GMT | Feb 27, 2008

"One source close to Grant claimed yesterday that the manager was not "under pressure" but admitted that senior figures at the club "are not happy" with the nature of Sunday's defeat. The source urged patience, and pointed out that Grant only recently signed a three-year contract, but also conceded that it's likely an "assessment" will be made at the end of the season." full story
LINK

Stowe
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Stowe Wrote: | 21.19GMT | Feb 27, 2008

I tend to agree with "Think About It"about Terry/Lampard despite the fact he's clearly a Spud. There are a lot of things that I love about John Terry. I love the fact that he'll take a boot to the head in a cup final in an attempt to save a goal. I generally appreciate his fire and I'll never question his love for this club. But his disruptive influence in this side has been noticeable over the last year and a half. He has experienced a significant dip in form (he's no longer the world beater--and goal scorer--that he was in our title winning years) and has been nagged by injuries for the better part of the last two campaigns. I don't believe that he's let himself get fit (fully) at any point because of his extreme desire to captain this team. In this case, he was back in under six weeks from an eight+ week injury. I'm not saying the man isn't an extraordinary healer but isn't it possible that the physios said eight because it takes eight to get back to FULL fitness? Playing at half mast is simply not an option (with a squad that's so plentiful there's no excuse for anyone to play with a knock) and when we have a blossoming backup partnership in Alex and Riccy, I don't know why Avram would bend and let him back. He's our captain, yes, and he should always have a place in the side. But somebody needs to take him aside and explain that such a rule only holds true when he's back to full fitness.

I don't think Lampard is such a disruptive player. As many have commented on here, I actually wish he'd be more assertive, more vocal--he seems to just go along with whatever's happening. He's an extraordinary goalscorer and has been a fine player for us and I'll be sad to see him go if he leaves. But he's got to decide whether he's going to be a leader or a squad player--each is fine but he's got to play the part whatever he decides.

Always blue.

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 21.22GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Probably not, but we didn't and were never likely to. And I think I'm on pretty safe ground to suggest that as long as there is a hole in my arse, Grant's only chance of going to the Champions League final is as a guest of UEFA.

If he proves me wrong, I will be the first on here to congratulate him and admit it. And it doesn't detract from my support for the team, not one bit.

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 21.23GMT | Feb 27, 2008

> admitted that senior figures at the club “are not happy” with the nature of Sunday’s defeat

I should fucking hope so too.

alex
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alex Wrote: | 21.28GMT | Feb 27, 2008

> JD
Why dont you just drop this 'Grant must go' thing till the end of the season when ALL the 'results' would be available?...would make more sense then, moreso as May is just around the corner....'cos for now this theme will only serve as an unwanted distraction...my opinion

Always Blue!

Fifty
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Fifty Wrote: | 21.29GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Jose,

"Would you have said the same if we had won that game"

It would have been impossible to play that badly and win on Sunday. We've performed badly and won in the past, but never that poorly.

We never, ever looked like winning / scoring / passing to each other. It's AG's team, and he has to live by his decisions. And they were spectacularly awful.

Tony Glover
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Tony Glover Wrote: | 21.29GMT | Feb 27, 2008

One half intelligent response from a Spurs fan to an article barely mentioning Spurs? Bizarre, but indicative of the fuckwit mentality of some of their fans when it all comes down to that strange intangible "class" and the other subjective* account of recorded events known as "history".

* = history is written by historians, who being human will rarely have the capability to be completely objective.

The argument that we've no history is analogous to saying that since the French Revolution, France has no history....and as for modern day Russia after the USSR fell.....no discernible history since the Berlin Wall fell then? In philosophy this is akin to the "ad hominem" move, which merely shifts the debate "Is Avram Grant the right coach for Chelsea" to "You're bunch of nouveau rich Chavs who stole our thunder by spending money and being better than us". Fucking hell, they might as well call us ugly or fat so meaningless is their contribution.

I'm glad we've risen above that sort of bollocks, and even if they'd bothered to read my review they would have found little else but praise for Spurs and deserved criticism at all levels from management to players for us. But to my recollection we barely got a comment form a Spurs fan on that article, and yet somehow (syndication maybe) this one ended up being read by inmates of the North London College of Intelligence Challenged Cretins (Principal: D Pleat esq).

As for the article, well said JD. I concur with you, I think basic common sense says you do not fly under the radar for 40 years in football like Grant, and remain an undiscovered footballing management genius. Had he been any good, with any proven record, or proven experience of success at any level then we'd have been at the back of a queue for him....as it was we picked someone with the apparent stealth capability of a B2 bomber. Only one thing uis certain in football management, you will get sacked, or you'll die first. So Avram Grant, will, as I have previously predicted, be sacked in the summer or moved aside in favour of a "name" who can attract the best, inspire the best, lead the new, gain respect from the fans, encourage creativity and flair and most of all walk the fine wire between all of those whilst keeping the Paymaster General sweet. If not the summer, then maybe the year after. If I'm wrong and he proves us all wrong by winning trophies and playing like Brazil, then get the Humble Pie Lorry ready ...and make it a juggernaut. Somehow, though I reckon I'll be safe from that.

It's a big job....but we're a big club....by revenue, by fan base, by global brand, by honours, by location...by any measure you wish to put forward.

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 21.34GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Alex (and others) - I'm fine with the summer; if the club handles it properly and doesn't make a balls up of the process like it did with Jose.

If I’m wrong and he proves us all wrong by winning trophies and playing like Brazil, then get the Humble Pie Lorry ready

Tony, I'd bring the custard.

Peter
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Peter Wrote: | 21.36GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Tend to agree with Stowe here.

You all know my opinion of Grant

Tottenham fans aren't very bright, are they? So so bitter that we've been shitting in their ears for 20 years. Not bad for a small club...

Jose Musumba
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Jose Musumba Wrote: | 21.37GMT | Feb 27, 2008

@ Fifty

I am just thinking like Alex that give the bloke a chance till the end of the season before we begining throwing stuff at him...i am counting...

Jose Mourinho 1: 0 Avram Grant

Let us just keep counting till the close...

Peter
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Peter Wrote: | 21.38GMT | Feb 27, 2008

What Tony said.

Sayid
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Sayid Wrote: | 21.48GMT | Feb 27, 2008

a complete over-reaction.

1. we're in great position to advance to the quarters in CL (did AG not beat valencia away? or rosenburg away? im sorry those must have been "small" games, that JM's players won by themselves, no manager assistance)

2. we're on pace to fight for the PL title (again, must be all those "small" wins, when the team just managed itself)

3. still in the FA cup (benitez and wenger, where art thou?)

4. reached the CC final (again- JM's spirit won all those games, AG just managed to lose the final)

stop being so SPOILED! - let the season play out... if there are no titles i will be the first to call for AG's head. but at least let him fail before crying for his job!

limetreebower
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limetreebower Wrote: | 21.49GMT | Feb 27, 2008

@ Tony

I was going to protest that we ought to upgrade "Think About It"'s contribution from half intellignet to maybe 80% intelligent. Then I reread the post and saw the sentence "Grant's record in the league compares favourably with Mourinho's". Hmmm, "Think About It", I'm thinking about it, and I think that Mourinho's record in the league reads: three full seasons managed, WON the league twice.

Who exactly compares favourably with that??

Mike G
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Mike G Wrote: | 21.53GMT | Feb 27, 2008

OK, I've supported Spurs since my dad took me to see the 61 team. Like Chelsea years ago Spurs were and have been an average to good side punching (sometimes) above their weight. But, the idea that Chelsea is now a great team and an even bigger club is, in my opinion, an open question.

Bates did a great job, but had it not been for Roman Chelsea would have crumbled under the weight of debt and the costs of servicing it. Losing £74 million last year is no recommendation for thinking Chelsea could survive without him.

Without him the club would be in serious shit because it would be unable to compete financially. So, the conclusion is that the man is bigger than the club.

As for the team, each team has a 'personality'. A group of traits or characteristics that combine to give it that something that makes them unique, different and even great.

How many comments have Chelsea fans seen and even made themselves that the team is machine like. Comments about grinding our results or bemoaning setbacks because the team did not posses that special ingredient that wins with style and excitement to go with the undoubted (but dour) professionalism and backbone.

The flair and excitement Chelsea had left with Mourinho, because it was mostly all coming from him, and NOT the team. There has never been a moment that commentators and ex professionals have ever been excited in the same way they are by Man Utd or Arsenal at their fluent best.

So is the team great and can it ever be great. In my opinion Mourinho masked the lack of that special ingredient that marks a team out as great. Perhaps Roman knew it and decided he could do better. What a laugh. Installing a muppet as a manager was not the solution. Spurs fans know all about that from past experience.

So I suspect Chelsea is the sum of two big egos but that it has no 'soul' of it's own. A team that would win with excitement and dynamism whoever was in charge. The best example would be the great Liverpool teams under Shankly, Paisley etc.

Poor Chelsea. A club in the pockets of a rich amateur and frozen from developing it's own personality because of the special ego that became it's only outlet for real flair.

The Carling Cup final revealed that Chelsea's own fans know the truth but cannot find the rationale to explain it except in terms of sacking the manager to find someone that will give them their heart and soul back. Sorry to say it, but things are too far gone. As are the days when Chelsea fans think of playing at Tottenham as a trip to three point lane.

paul
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paul Wrote: | 21.54GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Keep up the comments. We'll take it at Spurs. The more that you carry on under estimating the opposition, the more you will get beaten. It was a 2 horse race....

I love the fact you guys reckon you have the devine right to win - keep on thinking it - the pain will be worse. We beat Arsenal out of sight, should have beaten United recently and now have beaten you - all within 2 weeks. The team is improving week by week, and the confidence is back. And we will carry on.

Why did you think you should have beaten us? Because you have had some type of flukey run against us for all these games - half of which were not deserved wins.

Get over it, and maybe support your team - which you didn't at Wembley!

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 21.56GMT | Feb 27, 2008

What Peter said about Tony

Peter
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Peter Wrote: | 22.04GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Didn't we beat West Ham 4-1 at the Boleyn last season? SWP had a cracker of a game.

I've no confidence in Grant. I think Spurs fans need to understand this is not about 'one game', it's about the very high standards we have set ourselves in recent years and failing to reach them. Yes, Jol won at WHL but that was against ten men and with a huge slice of luck. And Jol was forced into bad substitutions in the Cup match by Mourinho's tactical changes - he completely out-thought him. Our victory in the replay was so brilliantly controlled and one-sided it remains one of my favourite memories of all our many, many victories over Spurs.

Maybe not up there with the 6-1 or 4-0, but on a par with many of the 3-0s, 3-1s and better than most of the 2-0s, 2-1s, 1-0s and 3-2s.

Which of our victories at White Hart Lane did Tottenham fans like the most?

Stowe
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Stowe Wrote: | 22.14GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Peter-

It was at Upton. Up 1-0 through SWP, tied 1-1 and then we blew them out of the water. Shaun's second was fucking unbelievable.

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 22.26GMT | Feb 27, 2008

2. we’re on pace to fight for the PL title (again, must be all those “small” wins, when the team just managed itself)

Some people seem to think that unbeaten runs are the most important thing in games, and there's no doubt they play a significant part in any attempt to win trophies. But what's the point say, of winning every game for example in a cup competition 4-0 only to lose the final 1-0 by bottling it or playing poorly.

Ask a fan of the New York Giants would they prefer to have the record equaling undefeated run of the Patriots in a regular season, or lose a few games and win the Super Bowl?

Let's see how we cope with our two Super Bowl games against Arsenal and Utd. It's the big games most people see as the measure of AG's competence, and he's not come out looking good so far, but then again most people felt that from the start anyway.

sedentarydave
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sedentarydave Wrote: | 22.36GMT | Feb 27, 2008

This is not exactly a topic-specific contribution, but as a relatively impartial observer (after 40 years, bloody hell, it's not is it, yes it is, of supporting West Ham from afar, which is probably the best way to support them, I've almost achieved a state of nirvana / total indifference to how they do) I think this is (in general) a great blog.

I enjoy cruising the various football blogs, and yours is definitely a cut above in terms of quality. Usually excellent main contributors, then a good ratio of intelligent comments to semi-illiterate rants (although there are a few ... )

It's just a pleasure to read, far more so than most of the other screamingly biased sites I usually visit just once.

So, while I can't say I share your pain, I can do a pretty good job of empathising. Good luck for the rest of the season. Btw, quite a good David Hytner article on "The Puzzled One" in the Guardian today - have you seen it?

Peter
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Peter Wrote: | 22.38GMT | Feb 27, 2008

'Which of our victories at White Hart Lane did Tottenham fans like the most?'


Where have they all gone? No conferring!

Sayid
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Sayid Wrote: | 22.42GMT | Feb 27, 2008

@Clive
it's not about the small games and it's not about the big games - it's about the titles. period. and we're still very much in the hunt for all 3.

Johnny B
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Johnny B Wrote: | 22.43GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Whilst one result does not a crisis make, I have to agree that AG is not the man Chelsea need, RA has brought in a man with minimal pedigree who will, I believe, just agree with the Chairman with regards to who will play and when. i.e JT, who seems to have a close friend in Abramovich. Considering the quality available at Chelsea there was no reason to start with an unfit Terry or Lampard and Anelka on the wing in place of Joe Cole??!! I honestly don't understand WHY Avram started the game like this but I'm happy to say I didn't care as I'm a Spurs fan!! It's more than obvious to anyone that as soon as Cole came on and you went to a 4-4-2 you were much more of a threat, you just gotta ask, why you didn't start with your strongest attacking line-up and why did RA employ, as manager, a guy that quite frankly has no real experiance and no-one had ever heard of? There was a power struggle at Chelsea between Mourinho and Terry, Abramovich favored Terry so sacked Jose and bought in a manager who would not disagree with the big centre half and therein lies the problem!

Sayid
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Sayid Wrote: | 22.45GMT | Feb 27, 2008

@clive
and one more thing - the giants are a great example of patience - everybody was calling for their coach after some early losses.. where would they be now if their management over-reacted as well?

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 22.47GMT | Feb 27, 2008

@Sayid
That's what I and most people have said all along, and as far as the League goes our games against the teams directly above us are the ones that could well decide it, so those big games will count.

MikeL
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MikeL Wrote: | 22.51GMT | Feb 27, 2008

@Jose Musumba
Jose, it looks you like to count things. First you were counting Grant's ten first games and said that he passed the test. Now when you realized that this conclusion of yours, about him passing any test, is quite premature you started to count silverware. Well, its is much better mate, but I hope we won't move into counting his seasons in Chelsea. This count should not go above ONE, we are already laughing stock anyway.

Peter
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Peter Wrote: | 23.08GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Hi Sedentary Dave

On behalf of the regulars, including the semi-illiterate ones, thanks for your kind words.

I read the Hytner piece. It's a bit 'meh'. The problem with mainstream media is that they don't have the sort of in depth knowledge of the club that supporters share and I don't think the Guardian has ever really got its finger on the Chelsea pulse in the past few seasons. I mean, they managed to find one of the few Chelsea fans who hated Mourinho to write a 'why I'm glad Mourinho has gone' piece simply because it backed up their party line, never mind the fact it was directly opposed to what 90% of Chelsea fans thought.

Martin Samuel of the Times is the chap who gets Chelsea best. He's a Hammer, of course.

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 23.13GMT | Feb 27, 2008

and one more thing - the giants are a great example of patience - everybody was calling for their coach after some early losses.. where would they be now if their management over-reacted as well?

Team Owners in the NFL rarely get rid of head coaches in mid season, they certainly don't like to pay compensation unlike football owners/chairmen in our country. I think Liverpool are a prime example of that currently with their American paymasters.

Jiko
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Jiko Wrote: | 23.16GMT | Feb 27, 2008

Soon I saw the team sheet I knew that there is a good chance AG will blow it.
Let see what where we end up. Negative campaign is not good guys. Everything should not fall apart like that. Got the feeling some people are more interested in AG failure than anything else. Do not thing AG is the best choice, do not think JM was either. It is hard to find kind of managers like the Red Nose and the (as JM politely called) the “voyeur”. AG came in a emergency situation and was doing ok till now and we like it or not he will be here till summer at least.
Buy the way Chelsea have players to beat T-ham any time, so dear t-ham fans be aware

@JD - > admitted that senior figures at the club “are not happy” with the nature of Sunday’s defeat

I should fucking hope so too.
:))) OK but I would be more impresed by : "conceded that it’s likely an “assessment” will be made at the end of the season.”
no much point pushing the issue now or is it?

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 23.22GMT | Feb 27, 2008

SedentaryDave

Thanks for the compliments - very much appreciated. Don't forget to come back after the game on Saturday...!

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 23.33GMT | Feb 27, 2008

@/Jiko
A few things....

How can you say that JM wasn't the best choice to manage Chelsea, what else did he need to do? and please don't say win the Champions League, it's a bloody cup competition, you need luck as well tactical nous.

You seem to think that people are more interested in AG failing, read the posts again, not just on this topic from JD but others on this site, and you'll see how wrong that statement is.

Ah! the Fergie and Wenger comparisons, for people that have short memories Fergie was as brash and as controversial as JM was, that's what makes these people stand out from the rest. Wenger well he's just a Voyeur!

And the last point Chelsea have players to beat West Ham, we also had players to beat Spurs.

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 23.35GMT | Feb 27, 2008

SedentaryDave

Thanks for the compliments - very much appreciated. Don’t forget to come back after the game on Saturday…!

But only if you lose! ;-)

Joe
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Joe Wrote: | 00.01GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Reasons why he MUST go
1. He cant compete with the big teams just wait until we face someone like Real Madrid in the UCL!
2. He is unfair to the players, picking JT over Alex, Drogba over Sheva even though Andriy scored 2 in his last game and Drogba will almost definetly leave at the end of the season

munkeyfeet
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munkeyfeet Wrote: | 00.33GMT | Feb 28, 2008

I love the article and agree its worrying.

we should however support the chels like never before, sing louder than ever before and be as united as we can be. That way we can lift them but more importantly come the end of the season, we can stand there and call for his head saying that we did our part and we didn't add to the problem.

we lose any more big games though in such a piss poor style and this munkey will personally give ag the stallions head.

Chelsea Fans’ Online Petition to Sack Avram
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Chelsea Fans’ Online Petition to Sack Avram Wrote: | 00.35GMT | Feb 28, 2008

[...] this petition would go very nicely with Jonathan Dyer’s article on Chelseablog titled “Why Avram Grant Must Go“. The text of the petition is this: Avram Grant should go. He is not a top quality coach to [...]

Dio
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Dio Wrote: | 00.47GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Hey all, maybe some good news! Maybe Roman really is listening! Maybe he is getting embarrased! Just maybe Grant will be gone....there were visiting public there at the ground so even though they could not hear, there's no question Roman was there, and he's not usually there at all!! Let's hope the following is true!

From The Mail today.

"Roman Abramovich continued his inquest into Chelsea's Carling Cup Final shambles on Tuesday by holding the third in a series of crisis meetings.
The owner, who witnessed the bust-up between captain John Terry and assistant coach Henk Ten Cate at a Stamford Bridge training session in the build-up to Sunday's showpiece, called the warring pair together for clear-the-air talks
Manager Avram Grant and chief executive Peter Kenyon also had to attend the meeting. This followed his post mortem on Monday into the 2-1 defeat by Tottenham, where the club's board, coaching staff and senior players were asked to explain the debacle. Defeat had prompted Abramovich to enter the dressing room straight after the final whistle.
The embarrassing flare-up between Terry and Ten Cate had also been seen by astonished members of the public who were on a stadium tour.
Tuesday's meeting was the third time Abramovich has flexed his muscles in the wake of Chelsea's humiliation at Wembley. The billionaire was so dismayed at his side's capitulation that he was already in the dressing room to speak to the players before many had even left the pitch.
Monday's inquest was at Chelsea's Surrey training camp and manager Grant was left under no illusions that he must deliver either the Premier League title, Champions League or FA Cup if he is to survive beyond the summer.
Abramovich's decision to take a much morehands-on approach will serve only to increase the pressure on Grant, chosen by the Russian to succeed double title-winning boss Jose Mourinho.
As if to emphasise that Abramovich intends to keep far closer tabs on team matters, he even stayed behind at Chelsea's training ground to watch those players not involved on Sunday, including Ashley Cole, Andriy Shevchenko and Claudio Pizarro, take on an Arsenal youth team in a practice match.

AND EVEN BETTER NEWS although a long shot!

"Grant hit more trouble on Tuesday when he was warned he is in danger of missing out on the pro - licence he needs to continue as a Premier League manager after pulling out of the latest coaching class in Tel Aviv on Monday following the Wembley defeat because he was called on to explain his side's shortcomings to Abramovich.
Israel's head of coaching Amnon Raz accepted his explanation but made it clear Grant would jeopardise his chances of finishing the course if he was absent again.
Raz said: 'He called me to say he had a busy schedule and could not attend and I imagine he probably had a good enough reason. But he will have to be careful because if he misses many more, it will be the end for him. He has to be here for at least 70 per cent of the classes, or he doesn't get his licence."

Maybe what we need to do is stop him getting on the plane!!!!!ha!

Matt
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Matt Wrote: | 03.44GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Poor old Avram, one bad result and we all want to sack him! But his future is in his own hands. All he needs to do is be bold and select the best team for the match in hand. For the Carling Cup Final this would have meant Ballack instead of Lampard and Joe Cole instead of Anelka. Simple really. We would have had 11 against 11 rather than 9 against 11 (because Nico was never played into the game and Lamps and SWP just didn't get going all the time they were on the pitch). Perhaps he could try this team against west sham. By the way Spuds fans - well done. You were the better team on the day and deserved your win. Just don't get too carried away, it was only the Carling Cup.

SimonT
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SimonT Wrote: | 05.28GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Very well said, JD, I share your sentiment absolutely!

Grant has already smashed up one piece of family silver single-handedly! No no no no no bloody way we would still let him in charge a moment longer! Without winning trophies means the 'Chelsea' brand would be very much devalued globally. A wise businessman like Roman would know he must cut his losses NOW or risk further damages to Chelsea FC.

READ MY LIPS... The experiment of putting Grant in charge of Chelsea is truly over!

Greenlight
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Greenlight Wrote: | 06.44GMT | Feb 28, 2008

LINK

Rikaard is the tip from the Daily Mail.... And hasn't he done spectacularly well with his bunch of 'too many superstars' this year!

I have never really warmed to the bloke, ever since the row with Jose and Frisk.

I am happy to give him a go though, if it means Avram gets to move upstairs to 'Director of Football' again.

As for all the Spuds fans on here..... If you actually bother to read any of the posts since the Cup Final, you won't find more than a handful that suggest anything other than Spurs being by far the better side. Congratulations on your success.... Can't wait for Ramos to come to Chelsea!!... Roman get yer wallet out!

Sid
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Sid Wrote: | 09.04GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Nicely written article JD but doesn't especially add to what's already been said in the other thread - maybe just clarifies it a bit. I'd say to your mate that breaking up the 1972 team was in completely different circumstances. Then with too little cash an issue, now with too much!

Stowe seems to think JT came back in under 6 weeks and that it was too early. Excuse me, but the Arse game was Dec 16th and the Huddersfield game Feb 16th. On my calendar that's a day less than 9 weeks on an injury that was scheduled to take 6-8 weeks to heal. And you couldn't ask for an easier return than Huddersfield at home either. So, will you withdraw the claim? And also promise not to believe the old tosh written by people with an agenda so easily? We both know that's the wisest recourse...

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 13.40GMT | Feb 28, 2008

I suppose people will have their own views on this type of management approach, is it delegation, or someone who has no idea? Answers on the back of a beer mat for a chance to win the holiday of a lifetime!
LINK

Harry
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Harry Wrote: | 15.00GMT | Feb 28, 2008

At first, I didn't want to say anything about Grant although I did not agree with his appoinment because I thought, "hey, at least he's winning games". But the performances that we have put on show in our last three games are very worrying indeed. And I just feel he has to go. I dont think he will be here next season. I really dont.

I agree with you, our next three games could make or break our season. We have to bounce back this weekend and we have got to make the quarter-finals of the Champions League. And I'm pretty sure we'll do both. We've never lost two in a row for a long long time and I doubt it'll happen now. Well, I hope... hee hee

Tony Glover
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Tony Glover Wrote: | 15.03GMT | Feb 28, 2008

@ Clive

Where I work, it's called delegation...by people with no idea. Sorry. not very helpful. But it does eem to be the way of life...the higher you go, the less clue you have about what's going on.

Munkeyfeet
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Munkeyfeet Wrote: | 15.18GMT | Feb 28, 2008
Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 15.26GMT | Feb 28, 2008

@Tony
Correct.....you are the lucky winner of our holiday of a lifetime. ;-)
But you're right, isn't it the way with most big companies that incompetence is rewarded with promotion, or huge sums of money from golden handshakes.

Tony Glover
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Tony Glover Wrote: | 15.34GMT | Feb 28, 2008

@ Clive

Absolutely, in politics and business the price , for failure, it seems is a huge pay off and financial security for life, whilst the new broom comes in and sweeps away any mention of achievements of the previous regime. Whilst the like of us...the workers...have to accept that "change is inevitable". Sorry, the old SWP in me coming out there (as in Socialist Workers Party not Shaun Wright Phillips!

Cynic..moi?

@ munkeyfeet - I'd be happy with this if true, and there's no doubt a groundswell of comment and speculation is building in the press and broadcast media. RA must be tempted...surely.....Rijkaard has the experience, the clout and of coursh also, the Dutch charm with the presh, also!

Munkeyfeet
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Munkeyfeet Wrote: | 15.49GMT | Feb 28, 2008

@ Tony - i would be too

Lippi, Rikaard, Ramos, O'Neill, Scolari, Bilic.

Any of those would be better.

Who would you chaps love to see and why?

Peter
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Peter Wrote: | 16.02GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Not sure about Rijkaard. Chelsea is a very different fish to Barcelona, where he'd have been bolstered by the sort of basic background support and knowledge of how to run a successful football club going back decades that we can't provide.

I think it needs either somebody with shedloads of experience all over the planet, or somebody young and fresh with a hankering to cause some mischief and a willingness to fight the good fight.

Incidentally, this is heartening. Kakuta, Stoch and Nouble all look the business, fingers crossed.

LINK

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 17.12GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Not sure about Rikjaard

seconded - bit of a slippery character, but has done well at Barca (very jammy last minute goal saved them last night in the Cop Del Rey against Valencia who mounted a rear guard action of the like I've never seen before).

The bloke who we can't mention due to inevitable commotions in Fifty's trousers scored for Valencia... ;-)

Fifty
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Fifty Wrote: | 17.35GMT | Feb 28, 2008

JD,

I think we can safely say that if Baron Greenback remains in charge, there's more chance of me playing up front for Chelsea next season than him. It would have been a coup to get him from Valencia when JM was in charge - I doubt very much he's pleading with his agent to get him a move here so he can work with Mr Personality.

Replacement-wise, I'm not sure about Rijkaard either. The feud with JM and Frisk did him no favours in my eyes, and he's struggled to keep a happy ship at Barca with all the superstars there (although, by all means, bring a few with you Frank). Ramos - no chance. Lippi - no thanks. O'Neill - done well at the clubs he's been at, but untried at the very best (ditto Mark Hughes). Bilic is an exciting possibility, but then International management is completely different to club management.

Apparently there's a guy called Jose from Portugal who's looking for work. Half-decent record as well by all accounts.......

As the link in Peter's post shows, there's at least a few in the depths of the club who know where the goal is.

Get Kakuta playing against Barnsley !!!

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 17.52GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Very true...

I think part of the problem is that we're almost doing things by committee at the moment. Grant, Ten Cate, Clarke with Arnesen lurking in the background; it needs one very strong character to take command, but I'm not entirely sure Roman wants that type of person in charge. Or JT, if the rumour mill is to be believed!

Mark
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Mark Wrote: | 18.32GMT | Feb 28, 2008

I think Rijkaard would be a good choice. He wears a suit well so should keep most posters here happy. Having successfully upset the bigots in the Matthew Harding end with a Jewish manager we might as well go for a Black manager. Pity Sammy Davis Jnr. is no longer available.

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 18.42GMT | Feb 28, 2008

I didn't mention Grant's lack of sartorial elegance in the article. Would be cruel to kick a man when he's down...

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 18.47GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Pity Sammy Davis Jnr. is no longer available.

I think Stevie Wonder would be a better choice, even he could see things that AG misses during a game!

limetreebower
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limetreebower Wrote: | 20.39GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Interesting that today's Guardian leads with a story on Rijkaard being ready for Chelsea.

Sadly, this is probably exactly what we need -- a whispering campaign in the media. Although it'll be based on the usual shallow/kneejerk judgments, maybe the idea that Grant isn't good enough will gather momentum, and by the end of the season, one hopes, it'll be a general assumption in the press that he's going to be replaced.

I just can't see Abramovich admitting his mistake otherwise.

The nightmare scenario is that we win the FA Cup (all it takes is one good game). Then at the very end of the season Grant will be a (sort of) hero and it'll be that much harder to get shot of him.

It'll be a horrible moment, but think about it and you know I'm right. Barnsley are our best hope for change.

Anthony
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Anthony Wrote: | 20.50GMT | Feb 28, 2008

What I know (it's not that juicy or new but shows what a joke the club has become):

Ten Cate was appointed by the Russian/Benelux contingent over the head of both Grant and Clarke. Neither of them wanted him, and first found out that Chelsea were after him through the press. Very strange providing that Grant was RA's appointment.

Ten Cate has fallen out with both Clarke and quite a few of the first team. Apparently he is super aggressive and incredibly arrogant. Grant's role is supposed to be to smooth relations between the coaches (Clarke and Ten Cate) and the rest of the squad. Other than that he does nothing. Grant has refused to intervene in a variety of rows involving Ten Cate, most notably the one between the latter and Clarke. Apparently Clarke is on the verge of resigning, though I have also heard strong rumours that Ten Cate might be fired.

Apparently, as we have read, first team training is a shambles, and is largley run by Ten Cate, as his primary role is to have overall control of coaching the first team. Apparently training at Barcelona was similarly shambolic at Barca under Rijkaard and Ten Cate.

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 20.54GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Interesting to read that Anthony, thanks. Certainly seems like there are far too many cooks for our own good down in SW6.

lollipop
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lollipop Wrote: | 21.06GMT | Feb 28, 2008

@ JOE
"He is unfair to the players, picking J.T over Alex, Drogba over Sheva even though Andriy scored 2 in his last game..."
Supposing A.G had played Alex and Sheva in the Final and we STILL lost, which i think is more than likely seeing as the team played badly as a whole? There`s always a "what if so-and-so had played or what if he`d of played?". End of the day, pure and simple, we just weren`t good enough regardless of who did/didn`t play. The only player i`m upset didn`t start on sunday was Joe Cole. Would we of won if he`d been on the pitch for a full 90 minutes? Who knows? Maybe we wud`ve...maybe we wudn`t of. All i`m certain of is that Joe should NEVER, EVER be put on the bench if he`s fully match-fit. He`s proved his worth in my opinion to be in every starting line-up. Ok. Alex is a good player but J.T is a GREAT player, defender AND Captain...J.T IS Chelsea. He`s commited to the club and his anger at losing the final was apparent on his face at the end of the game. I`d never start a game without him being there..he`s a rock to the Chelsea boys and a big threat to opposing teams. As for Didier and Sheva...ABSOLUTELY NO CONTEST!! One is priceless and i would personally sink into a state of depression if he leaves in the summer ( got everything crossed that he stays)..the other is a useless, part time player on a semi-permanent sicknote from the Ukraine with a golfing fetish. Leave it to you which you think is which. Leave Sheva to warm the bench for the boys who REALLY want to play for Chelsea i say. At least he can`t injure himself just sitting on his arse..then again, you never know with him!!

Is Richard Branson still planning on doing those trips to the moon? Suppose if we all contributed to a ticket for Avram.........
Up the Chels xxx

lollipop
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lollipop Wrote: | 21.15GMT | Feb 28, 2008

P.s all the speculation about Grant getting the boot and Rijkaard "ready for talks with Chelsea", i just Don`t see any of it happening at all. As depressing as it is, the fact remains that A.G signed a 4 year contract, so i think we`re stuck with him whether we like it or not..which at the moment, about 98% of us don`t. I can see half the team leaving before he does at this rate, especially with all the rumours of unrest that are circulating. It would cost Chelsea FC too much to get rid of the bugger!!!

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 21.17GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Is Richard Branson still planning on doing those trips to the moon? Suppose if we all contributed to a ticket for Avram………

Apparently he is - mate of mine had just been offered a 20% discount on one. Brings it down to about £80k - bloggers, get your wallets out.

Chelsea fan
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Chelsea fan Wrote: | 21.25GMT | Feb 28, 2008

You guys are stuck with Avram for some time, hehehehe it serves you right, next time keep successful managers in the club.

I do not think that frank would leave Barca to come and manage Chelsea, with Ten Cate and Avram Grant in the team, you kidding? the man is made of the same stuff as JM, would not accept interference in his work.

Keep Avram "the Loser" Grant he may still deliver another 30 wins against the minnows, hehe.

No silverware at all as long as this loser is the manager.

Syed
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Syed Wrote: | 21.36GMT | Feb 28, 2008

Henk Ten Cate should be sacked ASAP. What an utter rubbish. Why do we need another assistant manager if we have Steve Clarke?

lollipop
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lollipop Wrote: | 21.37GMT | Feb 28, 2008

@ JD
There we go then...problem/manager sorted! Have a word with that mate of yours. Sing along now " fly me to the moooon!!!".....
p.s would that be cash or cheque?

fan of makelele called sarah
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fan of makelele called sarah Wrote: | 21.58GMT | Feb 28, 2008

hi...
well,i am sorry for losing carling cup final but lets face it: we can't win all the time.
at least we came to the finals and lost against pretty strong team (who are getting stronger and stronger).
Avram Grant is OK.He maybe doesn't have witty humour as Mourinho...(i sometimes got irritated by his constant commenting),but he is OK manager and most important will probably develop young stars while Jose just bought already affirmed players and put the youth on the bench...
Give him time.He is still learning whats not good,to be learning on such a big job as being a manager of Chelsea.chelsea went trough lot of trouble this season,so 3rd place isn't so bad either.next seasong I expect more...
p.s. if he leaves this season,I would be really mad in case Rijkaard comes.I can't stand that guy and I don't want us making English version of Barcelona (Ten Cate -Rijkaard...)!!!Marco Van Basten will do the job as far I am consirned(in case Grant leaves).
one more thing,sorry for my errors in the text because english is not my first language.
see ya...and long live makelele!

Munkeyfeet
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Munkeyfeet Wrote: | 22.03GMT | Feb 28, 2008

@ Limetree - You got me nodding with you - i agree i hope we get knocked out ala liverpool by the barnsley - then he really has no where to run. What we dont want is a McClaren to happen - pull off the odd one result and then put off the inevitable - so that we try to bring in a manager late and they cant buy the players they want over the summer and we lose another year.

@ Lolli - we lost because Frank played - simple :)

We dont need another JM - we need someone older who knows how to play the political game.

More than one way to skin a cat.

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 22.35GMT | Feb 28, 2008

If we stick with tradition... then regardless of winning the FA Cup, he should be sacked like our three recent winners. Now that's what I call continuity!

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 23.08GMT | Feb 28, 2008

If this story is to be believed, then it looks like player values are falling inline with the Tesco value range of products!
LINK

Fifty
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Fifty Wrote: | 23.10GMT | Feb 28, 2008

LINK

Can't imagine AG was there, but his usual head-to-toe black ensemble would have looked a little different peppered with neon pink and green paint splats !!!

Fifty
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Fifty Wrote: | 23.14GMT | Feb 28, 2008

And Sinclair's joined Charlton on loan till the end of the season. So much for giving youth a chance, particularly with Barnsley (no disrespect to them) in the Cup next week.

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 23.26GMT | Feb 28, 2008

@Fifty
I think AG knows risking anything other than experience would be foolish. He realises he needs to win something if he's to survive.

limetreebower
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limetreebower Wrote: | 01.11GMT | Feb 29, 2008

Any other bloggers lucky enough to be local, our youth team will play the home leg of their FA Youth Cup semi-final on March 7th, at the Bridge. Entrance free I gather. I'm going to try my best to go. It might be a lot of fun to see some of these kids.

lollipop
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lollipop Wrote: | 02.23GMT | Feb 29, 2008

@ MUNKEYFEET

BEHAVE YOURSELF!!!!!!

Marco
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Marco Wrote: | 04.41GMT | Feb 29, 2008

@limetreebower
Our youth team is a successful team until it starts to be mentored, and managed by the clown.
Once that happens the success goes out of the window, after all class, intelligence and NOUS respond to class, intelkligence and NOUS, very much depleted in cfc since JM left.
Could the cfc board get JD out of retirement and manage the team?
could be cheaper!!!!

alex
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alex Wrote: | 13.53GMT | Feb 29, 2008

> Marco...
Why are you sounding as if JM knew anything about our youth team?...He made no impact whatsoever in that direction so dont just go there blindly!

In all of 3 yrs plus, which player would we say was fully integrated in mainstream chelsea?

A lot of thrash is being thrown around by way of comments from some bloggers above...some are even scanning for negative gossips from the media (whom they now find 'friendly' and 'reliable') just to score some cheap points and pursue their bile-filled agenda...

What a pity!...Even rival teams, managers and fans would tell you that the more objective thing to do is wait out the season for a proper assessment and effective change management (if need be)...but some of our own just cant wait for that 'short' time...

3 points from the hammers and an upset at the emirates would do just fine for this weekend and set a proper tone for midweek...

Always Blue!

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 14.24GMT | Feb 29, 2008

Why are you sounding as if JM knew anything about our youth team?…He made no impact whatsoever in that direction so dont just go there blindly!

In all of 3 yrs plus, which player would we say was fully integrated in mainstream chelsea?


We virtually had no youth team development, it was an area that needed to be addressed, JM knew that, so did RA. So it's a little bit wide of the mark to say in three years we hadn't integrated anyone into the first team... it takes a little longer than that.
A recent news item on Sky sports news before Christmas last year highlighted just that, with our coaches saying that it would be a few years yet before we start to see fruition in that area.

Fifty
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Fifty Wrote: | 14.33GMT | Feb 29, 2008

Didn't see this yesterday :

LINK

Certainly an interesting read. Probably gubbins, as with all paper talk, but I'd like to think there's some truth in it (as in RA knows he's made a mistake. Oh and the bit about AG just avoiding defeat at home to preserve the record, but that was pretty obvious).

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 14.43GMT | Feb 29, 2008

I just read that Fifty before you posted the link, lets hope the truthful bit in all that is.... that he's made a mistake.

Fifty
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Fifty Wrote: | 16.01GMT | Feb 29, 2008

Regarding the youth team, congrats to each and every one of them for getting to the semi's.

I think the future looks pretty good.

I have heard from 3 separate people, all of whom have season tickets at Norwich, that Ryan Bertrand has been their best player for a month or so, playing at left back. They reckon he's so composed for his age, really quick and agile, and reads the game well.

Two of them also mentioned he's probably better than Ashley, but that's not saying much is it ??

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 16.06GMT | Feb 29, 2008

I have heard from 3 separate people, all of whom have season tickets at Norwich, that Ryan Bertrand has been their best player for a month or so, playing at left back.

There's a coincidence Fifty - was out with a Norwich s/t holder last night who said exactly the same thing.

Interesting article too; could well all be paper nonsense, but it's not ridiculously sensationalised, just suggesting that the owner realises there is a problem; doesn't take a great deal of working out that something isn't right with the team at present.

Peter
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Peter Wrote: | 16.19GMT | Feb 29, 2008

'Having successfully upset the bigots in the Matthew Harding end with a Jewish manager we might as well go for a Black manager.'

Well Ruud wasn't exactly unpopular. Considering our support is so WASPISH, we've done pretty well with our last few managers - black, three catholics and now somebody jewish. Add Hoddle and his 'unorthodox' beliefs, and we're just waiting for a muslim (now I wonder how THAT would go down...) Can any club match that for diversity?

The Ten Cate stuff is very interesting. Perhaps we should cut JT more slack for the ruck.

Jack Cork has also got very good reports at Scunthorpe - was put forward as the player of the season in the Observer.

I'm supposed to be at leaving do next Friday, but will try to get out of it cos I'd love to see the future (albeit, probably not our future. They'll all be at QPR by 2010).

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 16.31GMT | Feb 29, 2008

we’re just waiting for a muslim

Not management obviously, but didn't Anelka convert to Islam?

It is difficult not to get excited about the prospect of a decent youth team; such a big leap to make it into a Premiership side though; I remember watching Leon Knight in the reserves against Derby (I think) a number of years ago and thinking he was Zola's heir apparent. And then there was Jody Morris... Read an article somewhere recently where Lamps was bemoaning the lack of respect amongst younger players; had an air of 'back in my day...' about it, but he made a valid point that the whole boot cleaning / running around after senior players did give him a bit of perspective on things and something aspire to.

Fifty
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Fifty Wrote: | 17.19GMT | Feb 29, 2008

JD,

You made your way to Norfolk then ??

I'm sure none of them are allowed to cross the county boudary......either to get out or come in !!!

Jiko
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Jiko Wrote: | 17.19GMT | Feb 29, 2008

Arnesen is at centre of Chelsea war
LINK

all is getting a bit confusing, a?

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 17.23GMT | Feb 29, 2008

You made your way to Norfolk then ??

No - this particular Canary escaped some years ago and is still at large in London town!

I take it that's where you hail from Fifty?

Fifty
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Fifty Wrote: | 17.37GMT | Feb 29, 2008

JD,

Yep, Naarfark born and bred me (bar a year or two in the Midlands).

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 17.37GMT | Feb 29, 2008

Arnesen is at centre of Chelsea war

Looks like RA is getting all the headlines he hoped to avoid under JM's leadership.
Then again most of us know that the media don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. They'll have us believe next that Prince Harry is on the front line in Afghanistan, and not the film set of the next Rambo movie.

Free Bet Man
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Free Bet Man Wrote: | 21.18GMT | Feb 29, 2008

I'd love to see Rijkaard at the Bridge at the end of the season, as I imagine many Chelsea fans would. He is a fantastic coach with undoubtable credentials but that does not give Arnesen the right to go under the radar to try and attempt to bring the Dutchman to the club at a time where the foundations are shaking on a greater scale than that of the quake on Wednesday morning.
It seems no matter what the fans say, Roman will get his way no matter what - just think back to the Ranieri days - but why should those around Grant create a similar media circus to that which spelled the end of the Italian's reign?
In the long run , i.e. next season, I cannot see Avram still at the helm and I think he is the wrong man for the job simply because he is tactics are bewildering at times. Give the man the rest of this campaign and rebuild at the end of it, praying meanwhile that over the next three month's our club doesn't sink into a mini-oblivion.

Left Footer
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Left Footer Wrote: | 22.24GMT | Feb 29, 2008

For all those who slagged off Frank and JT for supposedly talking their way back into the team last Sunday, have a look at the captain's Thursday interview on the CFC site and in several papers this morning. There are actual quotes from the man himself, notably missing from all the reports cited last week to prove he was picking himself and "running" Chelsea. Some "fans" really ought to be ashamed.

We have the right players and the right captain to lead this team to success. We just need the right manager. Oh, wait, I seem to remember we had one of those...

Karl
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Karl Wrote: | 22.54GMT | Feb 29, 2008

The pressure is getting to Grant....

LINK
LINK

We are well and truly back on the back pages.

Mark
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Mark Wrote: | 23.29GMT | Feb 29, 2008

Yes - reading between the lines I think LINK is aimed directly at Jonathan Dyer for "Why Avram Grant must go…" :-)

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 23.43GMT | Feb 29, 2008

Well he better get used to it, it's no worse than the crap that JM had to put up with. If he wants to play with the big boys all this goes with the territory, perhaps that's something else that's gone over his head.

SimonT
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SimonT Wrote: | 23.53GMT | Feb 29, 2008

"Just because we lost one game. I don't want to defend myself about this.", he said.

You lost a bloody Cup Final at Wembley, watched by million viewers around the world, you bloody clueless puppet!

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 00.05GMT | Mar 1, 2008

"Roman Abramovich has never told me one player that he needs to play, never told me to pick the team this way or that. I'm in charge. Please, you need to respect my professionalism."

Quite right AG... the team and tactics had your fingerprints all over it, probably RA might have done a better job though!

Deep Blue
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Deep Blue Wrote: | 00.22GMT | Mar 1, 2008

Looks the man is starting this "western" again :-)

LINK

Deep Blue
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Deep Blue Wrote: | 01.16GMT | Mar 1, 2008

:-) I mean, the man is starting to think "western".

robina
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robina Wrote: | 01.20GMT | Mar 1, 2008

I have to say, I like the more vocal & opinionated Avram Grant.

Marco
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Marco Wrote: | 02.13GMT | Mar 1, 2008

One GAME???? the man is a loser.
What does he mean one game???
I can recall at least 5 games where chelsea won
with lots and lots of luck.
Chelsea had the wrong tactics, agai8nst Liver, olympiakos, etc etc
and he still says one game?
Well 1 game where silverware was involved.
Not a convinced manager, speaks like if he is a top manager, c'mon AG
admit your shortcomings, AG will not manage to convince the chelsea fans
Chelsea fans are not like RA, that believes any crap from AG. The gift of the "gob" may save you with RA, but not with the fans.
A vile back stabbing disrespectull manager, he back stabbed JM, thats how he got the job. So many wins yes, against very very poor opposition, when a better organised team with slightly better players, the man(AG) goes all defensive.
He demands respct NOW, LOL LOL, he never gave respect to the manager that he followedand inherited the players.
The man is a FAKE.
I support entirelly "Why Avram Must Go..." title of this blog.
the sooner he goes the better, even if cfc wins, CL, EPL, FA cup the world title etc etc it will only bve by the professional and players pride and professionalism.
AG is not believed by any polayers in the team, they know he is a FAKE.

Dio
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Dio Wrote: | 06.59GMT | Mar 1, 2008

He still does'nt get it does he. The reason why so man yChelsea fans have come out against him is because he is THE BACKSTABBER and he will never be forgiven! Get it Avram and move on Brutus!!!

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 13.22GMT | Mar 1, 2008

As a little side issue to our managers situation, I just wonder if JT had come out with similar comments to Stevie Me what we would be making of it. There has been enough said about JT's possible disruptive influence on this blog, but I can't help but feel Gerrard is doing something that is even more underhand. It's either going one of two ways with him, he's perhaps trying to point out to the owners that Senor Benitez doesn't have what it takes for him to win him his Premiership medal and needs to be replaced. Or it's another cry to clubs to come and get me, beacuse I can't play with this mediocrity anymore!

If it is the latter would we want him or do we need him? on a personal level I hope we don't get drawn in to another transfer saga this summer.

Deep Blue
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Deep Blue Wrote: | 14.40GMT | Mar 1, 2008

@ Marco & Dio, with both you 100%.

AG, is so incompetent that instead playing mind games with his opponent trainers, he is playin it with his own players. Does he have any clue about the Job? Makes me sick to think that he will be sacked and still will get lots of money for what he hasn't delivered.

Jonathan Dyer
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Jonathan Dyer Wrote: | 15.15GMT | Mar 1, 2008

... is aimed directly at Jonathan Dyer for “Why Avram Grant must go…”

When this blog speaks Mark, the great and the good (and others) listen... ;-)

Be very interesting to see the team for today...

Dio
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Dio Wrote: | 15.23GMT | Mar 1, 2008

@deep Blue
unfortunatley, it happens in all walks of life! Like when directors and managers oversee a company's fall in profits and told to go with a huge golden handshake, sometimes worth millions. it does'nt seem right but that's life. Theonly difference is that most of the time they did a good job but things started to drop off. With Grant though, he's never done a good job! and before some of you Grant Lovers come on here, Mourinho, with his FIRST day in British football beat the great MAN-U on his first day at the office, something Chelsea FC hardly ever did! so get your facts right about what success means, not mediocre success when you have the riches we have now!

MikeL
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MikeL Wrote: | 16.19GMT | Mar 1, 2008

@Dio
There is no point to explain to these, so called "Grant Lovers" about football and facts. People who like Avram Grant by are by definition people who have not got any clue in football. Well, this is something they share together CLUELESS.

Marco
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Marco Wrote: | 17.48GMT | Mar 1, 2008

JD you should start another blog to complement the "Avram must go..."

"SEASON TICKETS ON HOLD UNLESS AG IS REPLACED"
or something like that
I for sure will not buy mine if he is still there.

@Deep Blue
Yes you so right, unfortunetely we NOW live in a society where mediocracy is better rewarded than achievement, well it is the MARKET society that is being implemented upon us, but we vote for those cretins......

Anyway against WH it will be a easy win...

limetreebower
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limetreebower Wrote: | 20.41GMT | Mar 1, 2008

Just seen the team announced for the Hammers. We've been rotated! Paulo, Cashley, Maka, Ballack, Kalou, Joe all start.

So I can't be wise after the event, I'm saying now that I don't think this is a bad selection. 4-3-3, Ballack and Lamps both playing, Anelka in the middle of the front three. Maka tidying up, otherwise a premium on passing through midfield and attacking on the wings. No Drogba to lump it up to.

But will Grant and his team have got them actually executing a game plan? Oink, oink, flap.

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 20.52GMT | Mar 1, 2008

But will Grant and his team have got them actually executing a game plan? Oink, oink, flap.

I've seen a picture of a pig flying on that Pink Floyd album, so anything is possible.

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 21.23GMT | Mar 1, 2008

Yep looks like those pigs are flying a bit like the Red Arrows at the moment

Nick Benfield
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Nick Benfield Wrote: | 21.24GMT | Mar 1, 2008

I'm having to make do with radio commentary. Damn. 3-0 already.

lollipop
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lollipop Wrote: | 21.41GMT | Mar 1, 2008

@ CLIVE,

Don`t think J.T would stoop as low as Gerrard somehow. He`s been quoted as saying he`s not at all happy with the way his team have performed this season and that they haven`t tried hard enough. Even winning the C.L wouldn`t make up for the disappointing way in which they`ve played. The tosser seems to forget that he`s been an integral part of the very team he runs down!! Or maybe HE has even started to believe his own hype, in a way distancing himself from the rest of his team. Almost like he`s saying; "yes, i know as well as everyone else in England that we`re shite but don`t put me in the same class as these complete amateurs!" God!! I HATE him so much!!!
J.T would never do that. he`s a professional, that`s the difference. CLASS V NO CLASS.

Chels are winning at the mo, 3-0. Lamps penalty, Joe Cole and Ballack. My SuperFrank has just been given a red card!!!! 2nd in his whole career. Apparently, violent conduct on Boa Morte. Commentators are saying it`s a scandalous decision, he only pushed him and he shouldn`t of got a red card for that. W****RS!!!!!!! Come on Chels...

limetreebower
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limetreebower Wrote: | 21.50GMT | Mar 1, 2008

Hmm, I guess Frank and Ballack really can't play together!

Oh well, last time we had a central midfielder sent off agaianst the Hammaz (Maniche wasn't it?) we scored four.

May the Aerial Pig Display continue.

Clive
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Clive Wrote: | 21.59GMT | Mar 1, 2008

Hmm, I guess Frank and Ballack really can’t play together!

But surely that should be a decision for the manager to make and not the referee!

Marco
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Marco Wrote: | 23.36GMT | Mar 1, 2008

Nothing has changed AG still has to go
On Wed another difficult team against the Favs

Free Bet Man
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Free Bet Man Wrote: | 00.08GMT | Mar 2, 2008

Good result today, obviously the players wanted to give the fans something back after the dire recent performances but you have to wonder whether it was purely a matter of the players taking it upon themselves to go out there and actually play today or if Avram's tactics have influenced the match?
Now I haven't seen the game, I was covering a different match for work but I doubt that AG had it in him to make drastic changes for this one. If I'm wrong hats off to him, if not then it is just further proof that he does not really run this club and it is those around him, influential players and staff that truly make the decisions at Chelsea.
Either way I doubt that this is a major turning point of our season, roll on Wednesday...

biggs
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biggs Wrote: | 00.25GMT | Mar 2, 2008

so, when we loose, it's avram's fault, but when we win - it's the players...:) cute.

lollipop
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lollipop Wrote: | 00.45GMT | Mar 2, 2008

@ LTB

You`re right! 4 goals it was. Joe Cole got 2...

lollipop
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lollipop Wrote: | 00.51GMT | Mar 2, 2008

I mean Ashley Cole go 1...Joe got 1, sorry!!...

limetreebower
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limetreebower Wrote: | 00.55GMT | Mar 2, 2008

Can't wait for Match of the Day. Until then, I'm off to the garden to shoot me down some bacon.

Cashif
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