Barça Stand Firm Over Messi

im sorry i have no sympathy for messi at all. the olympics is a very minor football stage and he has no need to go there. it has been ingeniously made a sub 21 tournament, designed to allow the youth to shine. messi may be sub 21 but he has no need to be there, he is already an international superstar. he is commited to playing for the real argentinian national team not the youth squad. if we didnt have to qualify for CL then there would be no need for this debate. the fact is we are a brand new team full of new faces and risking not qualifying for the CL (which i admit is very unlikely, but not impossible) by givin away are start player (that we pay loads of money) is too much to risk. i am annoyed with messi on this. his duty to argentina is at qualifications for WC and Copa America and the actual tournaments themeslves, not the Olympics game where football is a total side note.

the deal we are making is more than fair. argentina are being the stubborn ones. why cant he fly and play the matches for us and then fly back? thats arrogance from the argentinians. we are trying to compromise.

to blaugranaboy

hey your rigth about the olympics but it is important. no doubt about it brazil has never won a gold medal and they are going hard for it so it is important for argentina that brazil doent win that gold madal.this is why they want messi so much.

but anyways messi should stay with barca to play the CL qualifications .

wow another alot of you people will critizise this comment but did anyone see Memo Ochoa the mexican goalkeeper perform on sunday with jhis club it was shockingly amazing 10000000 times better than valdes.know this guy would put pressure on valdes and lets sell joquera

I agree about Memo Ochoa. He would be a mighty buy for. Man, was he fantastic!!!! ...

About Messi, I think we can win without him! we would definitely win with him but we will be fine should he go to China!!!

I tend to side with Messi's wishes on this issue. The Olympics are once every four years and are national competitions. He's under 21. Granted, he's under contract with FCB, but if the club persists in denying the Argentinian his chance to participate in the Olympics, it will only make a mockery of the phrase, 'mes que un club'. That phrase implies a greatness to the club, much like the fact they decided to sponsor a charity with UNICEF, rather than make a few million euros off a cell phone company.

Besides, if FCB hadn't been so niggardly when Milan initially offered €60m for Ronnie, we might already have a Villa or an Arshavin or whoever could comfortably cover Messi's absence. Laporta only needs to look to himself and his remaining directors for why this whole Messi issue is turning sour. First, Saviola, and now Messi. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't give Lionel the impetus to consider leaving the club at some future point. Frankly, Laporta can't be gone soon enough.

football players really shouldnt asprie to win the olympics. if they do they are setting their goals pretty damn low. sure its one more thing u can say u did, i still dont think he should go. u cant blame laporta for being nervous about him going. lets not forget potential injuries too. injuries when they are not on ur watch are annoying. but i agree i dont think laporta is doing well trying to block him from going. they should sit down and talk with messi and if he really is adamant about going, its not really our right to stop him against his will. my pt is i really dont think he should want to go.

im not getting into the valdes discussion. i know for a fact many people here are only 3-4 yr supporters and dont know the disaster in goals we had before him for yrs. plus he is a local boy. this isnt fantasy football, u cant just buy the best new thing out there all the time. and despite what most people think, when he is at his best, valdes is easily in the top 10 keepers.

and by the way, peqiuto, i dont know if english isnt ur first language but u cant use words like "niggardly". thats amazingly racists and dont be suprised when some people show u some hate when they read it

Pequito--

With all respect, I cannot agree with your first paragraph. There is more to the CL than simply the monetary benefits involved. It too is a prestigious competition with prized silverware, just like the Olympics. I do not see why valuing the importance of a CL trophy over an Olympic medal makes a mockery of the club motto.

It's true that Barca are more than a bunch of sports teams to the people of Catalunya. It is an institution of great political and cultural significance. But while it may be great for athletes to give back to the community when they can, the bottom line is Messi and all the other players are pro athletes--paid to compete for the hand that feeds them. Making players honor their contracts and club commitments in no way diminishes Barca's role outside of the sporting arena.

The real culprit here is not the Barca hierarchy. If people need someone to blame, blame Fifa for creating this headache in the first place!

Also, to embellish on the "players should honor their contracts" point: This is even more so with players like Messi who probably get paid somewhere around 100,000 pounds per official club match. For that kind of crazy money, the club has every right to expect (and demand!) his service.

If I can just butt in on the "niggardly" point. There is nothing racist about this word and has nothing to do with the word blaugranaboy is thinking of. A niggard is a mean or stingy person, while niggardly means stingy or tight. A perfectly good English word.

I think FIFA is messing this up. If Barca is right (that there doesnt exist any rule forcing them to let Messi go), FIFA should just keep their mouth shut and let Barca decide. Its all about the regulations. Their moral speeches are just unprofessional.

blaugranaboy, let me point you to nic's comment on the use of the word 'niggardly'. The last thing I would have intended is for a racist comment. Seriously, Amigo.

blaugranafan, I agree with you and others that FIFA are making a mess of the Messi issue through their lack of a firm stance. Personally, I've seen these sorts of issues resolved within clubs to everyone's satisfaction on other occasions, so it's a shame it reached a point where FIFA felt the need to waffle in. I was surprised, quite honestly, that this issue with the Olympics has reached the point it's gotten to.

I don't understand the problem with people in europe are having with olympics. Olympics is the biggest sporting event ever. Barcelona has no right to hold messi. A player belongs to the country more than their club. Barcelona might be paying his salary, but he is no slave of the club. All of these emphasis one point Barcelona may have came a long way away from their stated ideals. I don't understand why european people always give more emphasis on club than country. Messi is an argentinian and he has the duty to defend his country for the gold. FIFA has already given enough concession to club, they only force them to release only players under 23 age. Even then the clubs come with more demands. This shows the greedy nature of the clubs.

I can't believe some of the comments i am reading, the olympics comes once every four years.... Messi should go... We are talking about his country... I see that alot of persons here are non-patriotic. I am not Argentinian, but i would love to see messi there, there are many Champions League qualifing to be played in a players career but how much olympics can a person play??? Come on it's unfair, I see alot of people here don't love their country... If i was a professional soccer [football] player i would want to play for my COUNTRY!!!!!.... I LOVE MY COUNTRY... Soccer [football] is also one of the most popular sport in Olympics. In Mosow 1980 the total attendance was 1,821,625, In 1984 Olympics in LA the total attendance was 1,421,627 fans, an average of 45,300 per game, the final between brazil and france drew 101,970 at the rose bowl. In Atlanta in 1996 the attendance was much the same 1,364,142 an average of 40,122 And i could go on and on and on. Most of the soccer [football] games in the Olypics draw more that "ONE MILLION FANS" except for Montreal with a reduced number of games as a result of the African boycott and it still drew 647,683 and the final was 71,617 a record for soccer [football] in Canada.. But note the poorest turnout for soccer [football] normally happends in Europe as in 1992 spain and 2004 Greece and this Olmpics will be kept in beijing so watch out, it maybe the most popular sport in the Olympics again... So what professional soccer [football] player wouldn't want to go???

I think Barsa's proposal to let Messi play in the QF of the Olympics is a fair one. It's a UCL qualifying match and not some useless exhibition game we need him for.

I hope the board handles this case with great care (don't wanna piss off Messi for sure!) while fighting for Messi's services.

I'm just fearing the worst i.e. let Messi off, he gets injured somehow in China and is ruled out for many months! EEEKS.

Frankly i would love to see Messi in the Olympics, i am sure we can qualify without him, lets have some confidence in our boys, we are a superstar team!

The only thing is while watching Messi shine in the olympics i will be so bloody scared at every tackle he gets into and every time he falls

I am worried him getting injured, and that will be a super bummer

cool pequito, glad to see that it really is an english word. i just know often when people first language is not english things can get jumbled. but even though i know its a real word now, id still would never use it in todays world. lol.

i thought people would be split about this olympic saga but ive stated my point already. the olympics may be hte biggest games in the world but i personally very much dislike them. i havent even watched them the last 2 times, not 1 second, besides the football when it gets to knock out round. this event is such a farce that every 4 yrs people decide to get all patriotic and support their country in events like track, swimming, diving, etc... even though they dont care and have NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO idea what happens in those sports between the Olympic games. they go support athletes they most dont have a clue who they are and for a few weeks get all excited about them. its so superficial and i refuse to do it. not to mention steriods and doping plauges it. nothing like supporting ur club or football national team. but regarding messi, personally i think it should be his decision. laporta shouldnt forcefully block it. i just thought messi was smart enough to know he now is the new number 10, the best player on this team, a great deal of responsibility now falls on his shouldrs and qualifing for the CL is vital to this season. if we dont the pressure under laporta and pep would be immense.

not to mention he will be more than fine to attend any of the next 3 olympics. maybe when we dont actually need him.

They should let Messi go.

Let him shine, he needs this.

I'd like to ask the folks who emphasize a player's 'duty' to a country where exactly they think that duty comes from. As in, I have a duty to honor my father and mother, I have a duty not to commit adultery--these are God's laws. I also have a duty to be an informed and responsible citizen. These are individual burdens required for a well-functioning democratic society. Where does a player get a 'duty' to play for his country whenever he is summoned? What about the sanctity of a contract that a player signs with his club?

@Barcel: Your comment about lacking patriotism is pretty offensive. Don't go there, mate.

Fuckin olympics!!!

@Blaugrana,

I am with you on this one Blau!!!

I think that the concept of obligation to country is "over" used in football. Certainly, we should love and do right by our places of origin but in the case it is not really the people of Argentina that Messi is beeing asked to honor but the AFA or Argentinian Football Association. Countries tend to assume that players belong to him and that assumption is intrinsicly false since the said players actually belong to other bodies. The said relationship between those bodies and the players are dictated by the terms of a countract, which is recognized by all the courts in the world. International law in general stipulates that in an arms lenght transaction, a contractual agreement exist when "consideration" is given for "value". In this case, "consideration" would be the money that Barcelona pays and "value" would be Messi's services. Such an agreement DOES NOT exist between Argentina and Messi. Now, some would argue that he might have a contractual agreement with his country since he is the holder of their passport. Well, citizenship is a birth RIGHT not an obligation.
Now allow me to back of for minute. Would it be nice for the player to be able to participate in the Olympics? Sure!!! But such a decision lays outside the parameters of his contractual dispositions with Barcelona.Henceforth, only Barcelona has the authority to allow such a departure from the general terms and only Messi has the prerogative to accept such an offer. The fact that he is needed for an important game at the club is irrelevant. Barcelona would still be right if it had no reason to keep him from participating other than enforcing the terms of their contract with him.

F**K.....

Well, I m kinda happy for Messi that all this got sorted out...I m glad that he got what he desired for...but at the same time, I m pisssed cuz I m going to the Red Bulls vs. Barca game and I wanted to see Messi play more than any others...It sucks that i won't be able to see him play live...F**k

blaugranaboy: no worries

There is history to the Olympics that stems thousands of years back. The ideal is a continuation of that theme too. The World Cup is a similar event, as is the European Cup. One only had to witness Euro2008 to see how much excitement it elicited not only from Europe, but the world as well. Even here in the USA the local sports channel, ESPN, decided to present the entire european competition--this while in the midst of the domestic baseball season. That was unprecedented. To see the celebrations in Spain following their victory underscores that sense of national identity. Believe me, I'm not the most patriotic of Americans, but if the USA won the World Cup, I'd be toasting to my national team with the rest of the country. How could I not? The last time I checked there was no ice in my veins.

The Olympics are no different in that respect. I've heard that we in the Americas value these competitions more than Europeans, and maybe that's where the difference hinges. Still, it's similar to the World Cup in being a national competition. But, somehow the fact that FIFA doesn't 'recognize' a competition that far outdates any of its own gives professional clubs the 'right' to exempt their players from the Olympics. This to me is an unmagnanimous gesture from the world organization. I know it's likely grounded in arguments of proprietary issues as well as the capitalistic urge, but, FIFA, show a little respect for a competition based on ancient traditions--and European ones at that.

@Maverick977

Hey I am with you. I am going to the game too but hey look at the bight side. we will get to check out our new recruits (Hleb,Caeres,Pique,etc...etc..) and keep in my Eto'o and Bojan are going to be there too, not to discount Puyol, Iniesta and the Euro MVP...my main man XAVI. Dude, this is going to be a great game!!!

the olypmics may be the oldest sport event but those ancient game did not invovle footbal by a long shot. it was actually only put into the games in 1990. so lets be realistic, it does not matter in the football world for anyone over the age of 21 (or 23, i forget which one). plus it involved like 8 teams or something stupid. i wouldnt mind if they took it out all together. then i wouldnt even care to know when it was on.

@diatus

yea..i love all the players, but man, Messi is Messi...It woulda been somethin to see him play live...but let's at least hope it's a great game...otherwise, my 3 hrs drive from Baltimore to NY would go on waste...anyways, r u from NY buddy??

Don't forget the importance of messi to the national team. The country is looking to him to help end their bad luck and he is heir to the no. 10 after riquleme steps aside. Argentina are also the current gold medalists at these games and want to be in full force to defend it. I am an albiceleste supporter and these games will be good experience for the road to world cup.

I do feel bad for these guys who were looking forward to see him in the U.S, i would be disappointed as well.

Maverick977
I understand what you mean. I am going to that game too and wanted sooo badly to see Messi. That's not happening now.

Good for Messi though. He and Argentina got their wish. I figured that Barcelona should let him go in the first place since it's making it look like they depend on him for every given second. They don't need Messi all the time. Argentina in my opinion though can't depend on Messi. YES, he is from Argentina and deserves every right to be with his national team but does him being there mean they will be more successful without him there? Maybe...maybe not. This could be something that wouldn't make a big diff to Barcelona or Argentina despite how things did or could have turned out.

All the best to both sides

"the olypmics may be the oldest sport event but those ancient game did not invovle footbal by a long shot. it was actually only put into the games in 1990."

what????? see: LINK=512/index.html

I respect everybody's opinions here, but I think many people are relying too much on one-dimensional hypotheticals and not really reflecting on the precedent that is being set here. Here's one that I think you should consider: What if it so happened that FC Barcelona had a starting line-up of 11 U-23 internationals, all of whose respective national teams were involved in the Olympics, and all of whom were called up for the Games. What then? You'd be ok with letting all of them go? I don't believe it for a second.

Some more hypotheticals:
1. Let's say the Olympics were played at the same time as the NBA finals. Assuming the following players were called up, would you really blame Kobe, Garnett, Paul Pierce, or any other NBA star for preferring to play for an NBA championship instead of playing at the Olympics? Would you consider them unpatriotic??
2. Do you blame Pete Sampras for sitting out Davis Cup matches and choosing instead to get some rest during a never-ending season so that he can make a run at Grand Slam events? Is Pete Sampras not a patriot? Does Pistol Pete hate America because he turned his back on the US Team?
3. Can you blame a tennis player this year who sits out the Olympics in order to rest up for the US Open? Does that player hate his country??

I'm betting the answers to these are no...

...The fact is that no one in favor of sending Messi to the Olympics (Fifa included) has put forward a *persuasive* argument as to why he should. Fifa's ruling is arbitrary, and all the fan petitions I've read are whinges and babble. The idea that it is countries who build up players and not clubs is downright ridiculous. It wasn't the Argentinian national team that made Riquleme, Messi, or Tevez the players they are today. Ronaldinho is not who he is because of the Selecao. He is who he is because of his growth at Gremio, PSG, and Barcelona. In all cases, it was the respective clubs that raised them, provided them with training facilities and coaching on a day-to-day basis for years; the same clubs who gave these players a chance and a spot in their starting 11. Players are called up to the national team BECAUSE they have shined for their clubs; not the other way around. How on earth do you get from these facts to this crazy idea that players owe their entire career to the national team?? The idea is ludicrous.

I'm not opposed to national squads or national competitions; I'm just a stickler for the rule of law.

diatus--cheers, mate. that's a pretty deep post you responded with! I'm really glad that you'll be able to get to see FCB play in NY, and I hope you enjoy it. I almost replied to your post about tickets (I live in DC), but I don't think my schedule allows me to attend the game. I've been waiting and waiting for FCB to return to play at RFK Stadium...I had the privilege of seeing them play AC Milan here during Summer 2003 in what was Ronaldinho's first ever match for the club. Hopefully, they'll make it back to DC soon, given their new promotional agreement with MLS.

@ Blau..

Of all people...man, you should see the game. I have been reading all year and trust me, you are hardcore. Forget your schedule man. This will make this upcoming temporada more enjoyable since this game will allow you to have a great measure of the players. Drop what you're doing and let's go to the game!!! I live right here in Bethesda and I am leaving the same day to drive back after the game...so pack up Blau!!!

@Maverick

No Man, I am from Maryland!!! NY gets a bit crazy for me. I tried back in days and I had more fun than recommended so I moved closer to the mason-dixon line...you know... things move a bit slower down here...I love it!!!

i want messi play for Barca in the CL qualifiers this 12/13 August. But, i understand in the same time he should go play in the Olympic... Maybe Pep can try to win the CL qualifiers without Messi..we have a strong team with or without messi..yeah, should have a trust on the other players..

Sometimes we argue and we argue stupidly, how can you compare the CL qualifings to an NBA final.... you are kidding me, we are not even talking about the CL group stages, we are talking about qualifing.... Who watches CL qualifing???? How can a reasonable sound human being compare CL qualifing not "QUALIFING" with NBA finals, we should even compare the CL qualifing to even the NBA playoffs ... If there should be any comparison it should be the first 5 games of the NBA regular season and i tell you KOBE, KEVIN would all prefer to be on the USA dream team than play the first 5 matches of the NBA regular season.

I don't see how you can fault a guy for wanting to play for his country, esp. if its within the guidelines. Did all of you who oppose Messi's Olympic aspirations also fret about potential injuries when Iniesta and Xavi or anybody else for that mattter played in the Euro Cup this past summer? Personally, I hope Messi plays well and comes back hungry for more success. So, does this rule him out for the US trip b/c I have tickets for the Chicago game and was hoping to witness his magical left foot with my own four eyes.

Dear Barcel,

Thanks for your comment. One of the best things about this blog is the vigorous debate that occurs in some of its threads, and I appreciate your enthusiastic contribution.

I'm afraid that I don't understand what you're trying to say for much of the first part of your post, so I won't address that segment. As for your reference to my hypotheticals, I think you have missed the point. I was not attempting to equate the importance of a CL qualifier to a soccer player with the importance of the NBA finals to a basketball player. If that was unclear, I'm sorry, although I don't think it was ambiguous. I was instead asking readers to consider a series of hypothetical situations, one of which entails the scheduling of the summer Olympics during the time when the NBA finals would also be held. The point of such an exercise is to show how ridiculous it is to call certain people unpatriotic.

That's all I was trying to get across: Consider a situation, and then consider a series a "what ifs". I was not trying to predict what either Kobe or Kevin would actually do or prefer to do in such a situation. To revisit the hypothetical you addressed, consider *if* either Kobe or Kevin preferred to play for their club teams and *if* their club teams requested that they not go to the Olympics. In such a case, does calling the players and the club coaches and owners unpatriotic (as perhaps you and M. Maradona would) withstand the test of ridicule?

And even though I never compared the importance of any two sets of games or competitions, I'll address that point anyway since you brought it up. Let's say it's playoff time. In the moment, it may *seem* that there is nothing more important than the next game in an ongoing playoff series. However, I think this view is wrong and would suggest that these games are not necessarily more important than the first five regular season games (let's go with 5 games, since you suggested it).

...

...

Consider the hypothetical situation in which a team has their star player injured for the first five games of the season and the team goes 0-5. However, the squad manages to make a valiant playoff run late in the season and nearly makes it to the post-season. But alas, they place 9th and miss the playoffs by one game. We can never be certain, but it's reasonable to think that if the star player was healthy for the first five games of the season, the team would have made the playoffs. And *perhaps* they would have gone on to win a championship. The bottom line: every game counts.

This is the view I take with Barca. Every game counts. A reasonable argument can be made that last season was not lost later on during the season when they clawed back to within 2 points, then 5, then 7, then 10, then 9, then 8, then...(or whatever the trend in point differential was), but that it was lost during the first half of the season--maybe even during first three weeks of the season when Barca drew away to Racing and Osasuna. When you are competing in a pennant-style format, every game counts--even the early ones.

Thanks again for your post, although I can't say that I appreciate your views. I admit that I may be unreasonable at times; I'm not sure what an unsound human being is; and I'll let other people judge whether or not I'm stupid (it's not really for me to say). However, I don't lack patriotism. But you're entitled to have your own opinions and to share them here. That's the great thing about this blog.

Cheers.

[this is my last post on this thread]

LOL. LMAO. Blaugranafan i hope if U do have kids take time out with them and teach them, they will learn from U. your reasoning capability is not too bad