Monday Night's Mission Statement

Agree with your sentimentsn technology.

I feel that the TV companies need to insist that technology is used.
The product they (and we) pay for is flawed.

Get your finger out SKY, ESPN etc.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say the viewers should inundate BSKYB with messages to encourage/demand tachnology and to negotiate with FIFA and UEFA before the next TV contracts are let.

...And we can also campaign to ban the term "top four"!

Agree on Modders. He's been out for a while now and he will need to ease back into things. I wouldn't complain much about him starting from the bench his 1st game or two back in the squad. I can just see us throwing him in his 1st game back, then complaining when his performance isn't what shaded memory thinks it should be.

Ahh. The old video review.

Successful in the NFL? Here's how it works. It isn't a free for all.

For the first 28 minutes of each half, coaches must challenge an official's call to have it reviewed.
Coaches are allowed two challenges per game. If a call is not overturned, the challenging team loses a timeout.
No challenges will be recognized if a team has exhausted its timeouts.
In the final two minutes of each half and in overtime, only the NFL replay assistant in the television booth or press box can call for a video review. There is no limit to the number of replay reviews the replay assistant can request.
A review called for by the replay assistant is not tied to timeouts for either team.
The referee will make all determinations, regardless of time of game, after reviewing videos on a sideline monitor.
A time limit of 90 seconds has been placed on all video reviews.
Replay assistants will be part of a game's officiating crew.

If we adapt it to football...

For the first 40 minutes of each half, managers must challenge an official's call to have it reviewed.
Managers are allowed two challenges per game. If a call is not overturned, the challenging team loses use of a substitute.
No challenges will be recognized if a team has used all of its subs.
In the final five minutes of each half and in time time added on, only the League's replay assistant in the television booth or press box can call for a video review. There is no limit to the number of replay reviews the replay assistant can request.
A review called for by the replay assistant is not tied to substitution allocations for either team.
The referee will make all determinations, regardless of time of game, after reviewing videos on a sideline monitor.
A time limit of 90 seconds has been placed on all video reviews.
Replay assistants will be part of a game's officiating crew.

I would think it could only be used in offside for handball/foul(penalty) decisions

ban the term "top four"






I also want Ainsley Harriot banned. Unrelated to football I guess, but a campaign to do right is a campaign to do right in my book.

Please ignore "I would think it could only be used in offside for handball/foul(penalty) decisions" - computer decided I was posting it before I'd finished...

I would think it could only be used in disputed goals (goal scored involving a player coming from an offside position/ball crossed the line or not), handball or foul offences either which led to a penalty being awarded or not - in otherwords a disputed call.

The spectre of EVERY offside decision being scrutinised is horrific IMO. And as I said before - it isn't exaclty a free for all in say, the NFL - there is a risk-reward scenario.

Much welcomed post. Thank you.

Either way, the very idea we go from one/two blokes who can't be sure for certain to the wholly unforgiving tape de video is a good one.

BIOY Techies.

It's a privilege posting on here is it not? So kind sir, I thank you.

Though the end went a bit pear shaped cos I hadn't finished - and I like to try a bit of proof reading usually before I submit... "time time added on"?

That's far too complicated.

If in doubt the referee should refer to the fourth official / TV ref.

It takes as long as it takes

A team captain can complain about a decision but the referee will decide whether he needs TV assistance. If a captain is complaining too much the referee can caution him.


It's about respecting the referee but the standard of refereeing needs to improve.

It works fine in Rugby.

I think a NFL style replay system would be a disaster for FIFA. Our sport is the greatest on the planet because of the intense, nonstop, commercial-free action. The last thing I want to see is an excuse for the networks to break away while the referee stands on the sideline watching a monitor. Or, even worse, would be a coach who sees a match getting out of hand calling for a replay in order to give his players a break and turn momentum.

The only video system I would even consider would be the NHL system. They have extra certified NHL referees off-ice that watch the replays - while the play continues on. If they see a grave mistake they can then stop the game during a break in play and then reverse a call. This is where I'm not sure how it would work for football as the NHL rolls the game back to the point in time that the mistake occurred. If a penalty or a goal occurs in that timeframe then they are dismissed, because that time theoretically never happened. For football, perhaps this could just be additional added time? How would the referee track this time on his watch? What if a player gets a red card during the dismissed time?

That would be an absolute nightmare. All FIFA needs to do is strictly limit the circumstances under which video review may be undertaken. Basically, if there's not a natural break in play following whatever incident it is that needs to be reviewed, you're outta luck.

Disputed goal? There's already 30-60 seconds pause while the players celebrate. No disruption to the flow of the game in reviewing those.

Penalty? See above, substituting 'argue' for 'celebrate'. By the time they get through whinging about it and everyone's finally lined up for the spot kick, it's usually more like a minute and a half that's elapsed.

Sending off or second bookable offense? See above yet again. Natural break in play, usually some "discussion" happening, shouldn't be a problem to get these right.

And it'd be fine to limit the review period to 60 seconds or, really, as little as 30 seconds. If the decision made on the pitch isn't shown to be obviously incorrect within the allotted time, it stands.

This would affect the game so vanishingly little that it's just baffling why Blatter and his fellow dinosaurs continue to dig their heels in over it. Their fetishization of the referee's authority has simply got to end. At the highest levels, the pace of the game has reached a point where a referee can no longer be relied upon to make the correct decision an acceptable percentage of the time. But I don't blame the refs. The fact that they get so many decisions right is a testament to their skill and professionalism. We're just asking too much of them, and there's too much money at stake in the game these days for the authorities to be content with incorrect decisions--whose consequences can potentially be measured in the tens of millions of pounds--being made on a regular basis at the highest levels of the sport.

spot on - also we must not let this issue become a trojan horse for ad breaks in the middle of a game which sky/chairmen would love to bring in

No wonder you've only got 12 replies! All in all far too intellectual to reach 3 figures!! What do you think Jordan would think of the off-side rule?

You must be width over quality punter. The races worth winning are marathons. Not sprints.

By the way HH, I'm one of the modder's fan club, the sight of PSB playing on our left flank has left me feeling quite dejected.

Before his injury our modders was quite simply sublime - the best player in the premiership at the start of the season IMO.

How can we not be excited by him getting fit and ready to start delivering the goods for us again?

I think there would be very few calls where the re-play would have an impact. Penalties & "was it over?" situations are obvious, but how far should re-plays go?

The Henry Handball is something of a poster child for disputed goals, and I can see the appeal, but how far up the chain of events should we go? What if the pass to Henry started with a handball (then Henry to Gallas for the goal)? The argument then is that the whistle should have stopped play 20 yards up-field, so there wouldn't have been a goal. What if the infringement was 4 passes before the goal?

I guess my point is managers will always look for the advantage, so if reviewable stuff isn't a short list and strictly defined, we would be looking at a bigger mess.

For me, I'd limit use to penalties (including diving), ball over the line, and infringements in the penalty area where advantage is gained. Probably not perfect, but it's a starting point.

Will Modders coming back add something to the team ? Harry is just trying to wind us up, he probably rates Keane as a left sided midfielder

sorry MS,that sounds horrendous,

loses use of substitute.....

i don't see why we would want a challenge system,what about an intelligent person in a VT room,

if it's not a goal/penalty/red card then reverse the decision...sounds like the only way to do it for me,the people will just have to be on the case and sort it out quickly,if they can't tell,the decision stands....

to me the offside decision is the hardest,the linesman can't look at two places at once,but god knows how you sort that out,

whatever they do,the world cup/euro championships and qualifying fot those tournaments seems like the best place to try out technology moves to me...

on krank and modric,i think they are our best technical players,krank looks like a real No 10 all of a sudden,we appear to have quite a nifty team,let's hope they can live up to our expectations for the rest of the season,

i'm not sure i'd get rid of anyone in jan,if we don't have to,whats the point,if harry wants someone new then so be it,but it's very rare players are just going to come in and go BANG!

COYS....BIOYManc's

but not too good eh jfdit....dont want him in the manure/barca shop window just before it opens.

fuck i hope im wrong but and just maybe our league position will make modders think twice cos offers will be acoming

as for Krankie being a striker......i hadnt heard this HH?......apart from that we dont need another one even when Pavlova leaves

I don't think so, 'arry is very cute he'll look at our results since modders got injured and come to the same conclusion as any other person with two eyes & a brain cell - we missed the guy big time.

Crouch will be back on the bench when he's fit

And maybe add direct red cards to the list. Of course, as with diving for a PK, these are such judgment calls that these are all tough to overturn even with video.

for what it's worth.....

my team for 2moro,

i'm not sure the PAV is still at tottenham so i won't put him in...

----------gomes---------
hutton dawson bassong bale
bentley palacios jenas dos santos
------crouch keane--------

alnwick corluka naughton thudd rose defoe and whatever kid is around

some of those players need a run out,it will be interetsing to see what harry does,and if he plays a stronger side....

quite agree, hope Gio is fit, no mention of OS?

that is still a crackin side but would include Lennon on the bench

spot on Dave, the Ref decides as in rugby and cricket I might add, it also kills 2 birds with one stone, the other bird being respect for the ref, The FA are banging on about respect so lets give the the ref something the players have to be respectful about, anyway its our job as supporters to badger the blind twat.

I was on about the Hotspur slag, I will be delighted to see Crouch benched and only used in case of emergancies

KOJAC - I have a hunch 'arry is going to go with his strongest possible side tomorrow, entirely because of the opponent.

If he doesn't, I would like to see Rose in the starting lineup. He looked terrific for the U21 squad playing out on the left and looks like our long term solution at LM (Modders could then be moved back to CM where he belongs).

That's just it, though. If it's too tough to overturn within a minute (or less) of review, the decision stands. Think about the decisions we remember and still piss and moan about to this day, e.g. the Mendes goal that wasn't. Those would be overturned by video within ten seconds. The decisions that are so forehead-smackingly wrong that you're howling about it before you even see a replay; those are the ones it would be most useful to eradicate.

The more grey-area decisions we find ourselves dithering over and deliberating about for ages even after watching numerous replays on MOTD; those should stay as is.

Easy rule of thumb: if it didn't happen inside the 18, no video review. Only exception being fouls adjudged by the ref to be a straight red or a second yellow. That should keep the flow of the games humming merrily along.

Yup, keeping the game moving should be a big part in how any video review is implemented. At the end of the day I'm favor of whatever eliminates as many bad calls as possible, but balanced with minimal disruption.

Remind me; was Henry in or out of the 18 when he handled?

the linesman/assistant ref's flag should have been raised as dunne was challenged by squillaci who had been offside when the free kick was taken. henri subsequently controlled the ball with his arm and then his hand before crossing for gallas. from the replays it is evident that the linesman had a clear line of site to see henri's foul play. i would like the linesman to be asked some questions, has this happened? i never expected a replay. if our misfortune results in the use of technology being implemented (hopefully before the world cup) it would in a way be ireland/henri's legacy to the game. i used to describe maradona's goal against ingerland in 86 as the best ever scored followed quickly by adding that his second wasn't too bad either. i have now changed my mind. COYS.

Who in the hell is talking about Kranjcar as a striker when we already got the likes of Keane and Pav on the bench. I'm sure he'd do a great job but it is completly pointless, even if Pav were to leave in Jan.

Also, as an Irishman who accepts that we aren't gonna be be off to Africa in the summer, I'd just like to make a wee comment on the way the media are treating the whole situation. Its sad to see English journo's sniggering about the FAI's attempts to get any kind of comprehensible response from Blatter regarding the affair. We all know they would be first in the queue to whine if it were England who were cheated But that would never have happened, by the way, simply because England are a "big" team and Fifa would have them seeded up the arse so they'd be up against some pub team in the play-off. The thought of Beckham & co not going to the world cup and all the commercial benefits that would bring would give Blatter an aneurysm.

Y don't we shorten this and just do what we should do as Harry says "ASK THE PLAYERS!".

Very interesting debate. As a member of the overseas party north american branch who gets to watch lots of american football, the coach's challenge thing, video reviews really do work and don't impact on the game that much. But american football is punctuated with stops in play etc etc and is a totally different animal to football. I think video reviews should and can be a part of the game but as people have stated must be kept to a minimum. Maybe goal line, penaltys and goals where there is an obvious infringement that the ref missed. The latest thing to have another referee patrolling the 18 yard box is laughable. Just another person capable of getting it wrong. Bring in the technology.

Have taken tomorrow afternoon off to be able to watch the game on TV. I think it might just be a Spurs cup epic.

Would like to see a full strengh squad. Lets do the Mancs.

COYS

Hate to be a doom merchant, but I don't think we've beaten them in 10 years, and I bet you can count the number of times we've won in the last 20 on less than the fingers of one hand. And that includes twice a season in the league and the irritatingly high number of times we've been drawn against them in a cup, pretty much once a season for the past wee while. It's always preceded by a bunch of 'this time its our time'/'I can feel it in my bones' type comments which only makes it worse.

I'm thoroughly sick of our cup runs being ended by the mancs, it's like we're 'arbitrarily' booted out of a competition at the draw stage - and all that's varied these past few seasons is at what stage of what cup we get drawn against them. I'll eat my hat if that changes tonight, especially with this season's performance against the bigger teams.

Pessimistic I know, but I had to get that off my chest.

How about this:

Captain of team A challenges ref's decision. Ref then asks player concerned in team B if he (the ref) made the right call.

Player from team B either agrees with refs decision or not.

If still in dispute ref sees video, if ref clearly got it wrong player from team B gets yellow card for wasting time and poss yellow for offence. If ref clearly got it right captain of team A gets yellow for wasting time. If not clear original decision stands no yellows.

Eventually players will realise it's better to admit when the ref got it wrong and game will move quicker.

Rednose is playing 'the kids' again apparently.
All to the good for us and a perfect excuse for them if they lose. Which they ought to.

LINK

The FAI are an embarrassment unto the nation.

Why anyone would further humiliate themselves and their country, by cap in handing on a laughable request that is, at best, out there on a limb of a notion of a limb is beyond me.

Bad luck on the match, old boy, but them's the breaks. Slink off and maintain some form of dignified silence. Or at least grumble in a non plaintive manner.

No to replay. Hell to the no on 33 teams. Start flexing rules for these international Accrington Stanleys and where does it end? They do greater service to football as pseudo-tragic pariahs than they're ever going to do on the pitch in South Africa.

Whether you admit it or not, my clover clutching chums, this is your finest hour. Be Irish Spartacus, and do so quietly, if you don't mind.

If the ref has video available, why would he need to go through all that Judge Judy shenanigans?

I`d much rather the Irish went that those cheating French cunts

Than

How long does it take to review a questionable situation to determine whether it warrants a review?

A few seconds.

All it requires is for there to be dialogue between the ref and a 5th offical in a TV box - it doesnt have to be an offical 'timeout'. The 5th official just needs a quick 'hold fire on diecision whilst i look at again' in his ear or vice versa if the ref wants a quick second opinion. It doesnt need to be intrusive to the game.

The dialogue can be fluid and discrete with no distinction between decisions made by the ref or by the video replay.

How does refering for a quick second opinion to an official with a TV screen differ from a ref consulting the linesman?

Correct and right.

The older I get, the less tolerant I become. I seem to wander around muttering, swearing far more than I ever did. Phrases such as 'ease of use', 'who designed this?', 'Piece of dog muck' and the ever versatile, '21st Century, we're in the the 21st Century' seem to be on a loop.

'The best things in life are free'.
Wrong.

The best things in life are fucking simple. We can establish their bestness by their longevity and how well they have 'caught on' amongst humans.

So the list would include, sex, chips, ketchup, lego, movies, music, alcohol, coffee, cocaine.

Stuff that reliably works.

Things thay don't work would have to include teeth. No matter how well you slave over them only one in three bazillion people have never visitd a dentist.

Touch screens. 'It's greasy' No, just inherently bad design.

Apple Mac laptops. Heavier than dead body and as helpful. Probably looked space age in 1996. They don't fucking work. If they did they'd have a bigger market share. And as I don't buy into their reigous cult, but just want ease of use I'm neither conned or convinced.

So to football. You can put a wall of officials around the touchline and it still wouldn't work.

I've given the solution before. A panel of 3 consisting of ex players/managers etc who look at the VT and call it right live.

The time required can be mopped up by the inevitable replays etc.

Funny how folk who whine about the time consuming nature of using VT don't dwell on all the time thugs like Rooney and Terry spend chasing and pleading with the referee.

Shine a bright light upon what doesn't work, what's riddled with human error and bad design and bin it.

Let's start with refereeing errors.

Technology is a must have in todays game. The quicker it's implemented and the quicker and simpler the process is applied within the 90minutes the better and more beneficial to all.

Septic Tank Blather and people in general are the ones that make it far more complicated than it needs to be. Lets do it now (as Dani Lloyd said to Jamie O'H .... about the wedding of course).

Having listened to Septic Blatter's news conference, I have to agree with the FAI that a confidential and private approach to FIFA has been patronisingly dealt with (including the sniggering press corps wjo were present)and misrepresented.

Blatter was courting popularity at the expense of the Irish (it could have been anybody) and he should apologise.

'Spurs have had bad decisions against teams who are perceived as bigger by BSkyB - and we create merry hell.

Blatter is trying to cover the cracks with his misplaced humour. A serious issue with which he is incapable of dealing.

He and Platini need to admit they are wrong. But first they need to be told they are wrong.

You and I are not vable to do that. But the big Corporations are.

Where's the media when you need them?

You have just put into words the effect that reaching 45 has on most males.

I hope you are 45 or you're peaking too early; there'll be no hope for you when you get to 50!

A month from now the Apple movement will gain such legs that you will long for the the halcyon days of mild fanaticism we live in today.

You can add the BBC Micro B to the list though. That purveyor of Chuckie Egg gold. If the youth of today only had a bit of Chuckie Egg in their empty lives, there'd be a lot less ruddy stabbings, I'll tell you that for the price of nowt.

I agree that FIFA need to be given a message. I agree that the media can play a part in counter signing that message. But I disagree that the current message is the correct message.

Ireland got fucked, yes. But using this opportunity to beg FIFA: 'please sir, give us another chance' is an opportunity wasted. The only issue FIFA should be pressured into considering is that of introducing video resources.

Instead we have this 33rd team malarkey eating up space on my back page, which smacks of headless chickenery.

LINK

The link above needs to be watched until the end to show how FAI's confidential case was handled patronisingly and in public.

Yes Ireland were beaten. But it will happen to others.

The 33rd team question, according to the FAI's response, was nothing more than one point in a list of others.

The bigger picture, not Ireland's response to a cheating incident, needs to be looked at.

Your back pages will always be like this unless cheating is made accountable.

Quite agree thats its got to be a decision via video. Real times decisions will always be subject to human error.

The controversy will come if they're used for penalties where its an interpretation of a rule for fouls and hand-ball. Pundits disagree all the time about whether contact is made. Handball is a minefield, with the intention rule. For me, a shot on target blocked by an arm should always be a pen, intention or not.

A 3 man panel may only add confusion as there will certainly be disagreement, it could take time to reach a majority decision, I would go with a single video ref as per rugby.

ireland are currently no.36 in the fifa rankings and could not be described as an international accrington stanley. we went through our qualifying group unbeaten and second only to the world champions italy. as an irish football supporter i have never felt represented by our association the fai. they like many other national associations, the english fa included, have a history of bungling embarrassments. over two play-off matches against the french we were the better team but did not convert this dominance into goals(see villa v spurs). we were on the receiving end of a very poor decision which assisted the french on their way to south africa. there was never going to be a replay but the use of available technologies to assist the match officials will finally be introduced much as a result of henri's foul play. i wonder what kind of service to football england and their notorious 'supporters' will do in south africa. given your team and 'supporters' record i am sure that once more they will do you proud. service to football my arse.
away win tonight,COYS.

Wholeheartedly agree 'chucks, The FAI have yet again made me cringe with embarassment with their "humble proposal".

The keystone cops act that is John Delaney & co only open their collective mouths to extricate one foot and replace it with the other.

Laughing stock doesn't do it justice. I for one would rather draw a line under the whole fiasco and move on, and wish the cheating, french goon all the nastiest shit that can happen to one person. Would love to see him do a "Tiger Woods" too.

To more serious and pressing matters, if we carry our second half performance at Villa to OT this evening for the full 90, I reckon we'll be in the hat for the semis.(after added, added, added time)

My only wish for a positive outcome from this whole, fucking pantomime, is that the implementation of some sort of real-time video replay/goal line technology that is available to the ref will stop those cheating wankers getting away with murder.

Do you mean their "confidential humble proposals?"

Blatter's the one you should be aiming at.

All national FAs are the same.

It's the fans who really get hurt...and the infrastructure at grass roots.

If that is your only wish then you will be disappointed.

We need martyrs to the cause. Unless we have them you will get buggar all from FIFA.

...or UEFA.

Who is going to take on Blatter and Platini and realistically expect some sort of positive result?
You have a case to be answered, then those cunts just move the goalposts again, make up their own rules to suit themselves, e.g. seeding countries for play-offs.

Exactly.

You are the proletariat!

Answer:

The media. Particularly the TV companies who make the game what it is - money grabbing.

But if they offered video replays as part of the package we might get somewhere.

They could also add that they would like to get rid of Blatter...only half serious, there!

This whole debate seems really over complicated to me

Whilst we have old "fuddy duddy" technophobes in charge of our great game, things like this will always be an uphill battle!

Just like teaching your old granny how to use the PC, you have to keep it simple and introduce Video technology slowly!

In reality the amount of time the ref would need to turn to the video would quite limited, IF only used for situations where their view is blocked by a player and/or they and the assistant ref were not up with play!

What does the 4th official really do anyway, checking studs putting up the extra time and having his hair dried by rednose is not really a full time job is it?

If Sky supply an immediate replay from all angles, the ref can radio the 4th official, see IF they can verify the decision and then get on with the game !
IF Managers give said 4th official a hard time, they immediately get a touchline ban and IF any ref is relying to heavily on the video the ref association and premier league meet them and give them yellow card!

It's blatantly obvious that video replays need to be introduced, everyone can see that. And I do think it's now a matter of when rather than if.

As someone said earlier, it's not about eradicating every single refereeing mistake. It's about getting head-bangingly stupid mistakes overturned.

I'll eat my hat if that changes tonight

Fergies playing the kids.

How big is that hat of yours ?

Fer realz. I'm trying to convince myself why I shouldn't expect a win tonight. I think our second string is better than ManU's kiddie corps. I mean, those Besiktas guys did them at Old Trafford, and they're rubbish.

We will have Fergie tonight, no problem

if the FA or the the Prem people(whoever they are) were still actually in charge of english football,we would have video replay help for the referee by now,

blatter/platini want the rules to be the same for everyone and to control english football and it's money,if only we were still in charge of our own things....

we should tell fifa/eufa that we will make our own decisions for our game thank you

i think you're right daytripper,i think harry might play a full strength side,he usually actually does,

for once i'm not that fussed about the result tonight aslong as we play attacking football and go for goals,so i wouldn't mind having a look at the fringe lads tonight....either way i'm happy right now...

Can't agree Harry, the rules are very clear on the Irish match and technology will suck the life out of the game and make it even more weighted than it already is towards the top table clubs.

The ref makes decisions and sometimes they are shockers but what happens on the pitch between first and final whistle is the whole shebang and the final score stands even if the ref is hopeless. We of all people should know that when you look at the Mendes goal; the result stands, that's the game. Sometimes the sun shines on your back other times the wind is in your face: and that's part of an Irish saying. Life's unfair sometimes and so is football: get over it!

As for technology it is just a means by which the Wengers and Ferguson's will manipulate more points at the expense of less experienced managers and finacially weaker teams. The controversy is part of the life of the game: remove that and its suddenly bland.

We already have the mechanisms in place to deal with some unfair situations, cite players who cheat under the "bringing the game into disrepute" laws. Review games and cite incidents, players, managers and teams: it is (generously interpreted) within the laws of the game and should be used to punish those who profit by cheating. So much of it goes on because it works, even with video there is still difficulty in assessing the absolutes. Wenger and Co. will be there demanding replays and matches played again every time they drop points if they are allowed to. Review each game, dock points or give 3 match bans to players caught cheating and you'll find that the Pires's and Drogbas will stop doing it, especially if they don't get paid when they are under suspension. But hold up the game for a replay every time Wenger does not see an incident?

The push for technology is really all about stoppages to accomodate adverts, the game and the fans have little to gain. Who are its main advocates? Those paid by TV companies.... co-incidence?

The game is in disrepute, when was the last time we got a favourable decision against any of the top four. Get the cameras in there is no argument against as far as I`m concerned. You do remember Pedro`s no goal at Old Trafford and the penalty decision when we were wining 0-2 last season. Blatter laughing at Ireland is the last straw if he was a man he`d fuck off the crooked bastard

Some good points Finn, but if we all had that attitude we would have stuck with a square wheel!

Should all the class not go on the school trip just because of the behaviour of 1 or 2 naughty kids?

Just because something is open to possible misuse, that is not reason enough to make it a none starter!

I think the win some lose some ideology does not really apply in the modern game. Its now faster, with a lot more at stake and if there is any opportunity to do away with Human error, I believe with should use it!

Your also talking more about retrospective reviews, which take place now anyway. If the 4th assistant is an assistant to the ref, then he should be able to help with any decision on the spot.

SAF won't be playing whippersnappers tonight. It's unlikely he'll be taking the league title to Manchester this season, and CL doesn't look too promising.

This piece of silverware has wormed its way up his list of priorities by default.

If we're to end our 20 year Old Trafford hoodoo, we'll have to beat men, not boys.

The camera never lies. That's an old non-Irish saying.

How are you managing to come to the conclusion that video footage is going to "make [the game]even more weighted than it already is towards the top table clubs"

I'm also slightly bemused by your main advocates signoff as well, while we're about it. I'm yet to find anyone who thinks continuum is preferable over Hawkeye technology. Are you saying everyone I have met is working for the media? Because if I'm living some kind of Truman show, that would, like, be totally awesome.

Good to see an argument of someone opposing the video replays. I disagree with most of your points though.

The bias towards the top 4 is all about shocking decisions going their way. With video technology it sure to reduce the number of these decisions and therefore even up the game from a officiating point of view. Would it be possible for the Mendes goal to not be given if video replays were used? Not a chance, but without video technology, noone can argue with the Wenger response of 'I did not see it'.

I also actually truly believe that good use of video technology can add extra to the game. In Rugby, which is similar in terms of continuous none stop play, video technology is used effectively and reduces the chance of fans going home knowing they have been kicked in the teeth by an awful decision. Where people argue that the injustice, or luck, is a part of the beauty of the game to allow interesting debates, does any fan on the wrong end of a shocking decision enjoy coming on to a website to rant about the poor reffing. It's good to vent out the frustrationg of being 'cheated' out of a game, but I can almost guarantee that it would be far more satisfying having the decisions fair.

And I disagree about this being pushed for to accomodate for adverts. It's a typically American thing and I can honestly say I've never seen any adverts come on when video technology such as Hawk eye is being used.

'technology will suck the life out of the game'

By life you must mean that feeling of having been hard done by. My mother was a great one for using the phrase 'real life' to mean any injustices, hardships or any manner of negatives one might encounter.

I see the opposite. Technology will remove the vampires that bleed my enjoyment. The unsighted and stubborn traffic wardens in black. The clowns that didn't see what millions of others did.

It will also rid the opportunity for managers, captains and any others with 'An Opinion To Share' from equally ruining me trying to watch a game of football.

Your commendable paragraph on the exisiting mechanisms for dealing with 'problems' is entirely accurate, but realy does rather sadly sum up the quagmire of appeals and point docking that is out dated and depressing.

Great Johnny Cash line. 'What is done in the dark will be seen in the light'. Probably originally Zechariah, but hey.

We need to shine a fucking searchlinght on these parasites.

Drogba simulated and dived? Replay the damn tape. It takes seconds. There is no time for ad space to be sold. Andy Gray watches stuff three times in slomo and it only takes him seconds.

That's what she said.

You identify the infraction and the ref walks up to Drog, says, 'You cheated and that's a red and a three game ban. Please leave the pitch'.

Judge Dredd is what we want. Instnat justice that works. I tell you now, the crime rate with fall.

One of the reason this 'Big Club' bollocks is allowed to exist is because of this whole delay of referee reports and FA meetings. Sack the whole process and show me instant full colour justice. Chelsea players saunter into these things armed with barristers and gawd knows what. They are playing the %'s.

Transparency is cool. It's unforgiving and lays bare the cheats and their masters in a heartbeat.

Ferguson sent to the stands? I want to watch him walk. Watch him brought to heel - LIVE

'if I'm living some kind of Truman show, that would, like, be totally awesome.'



Yeah, but you'd be on Freeview

Starring Academy Award nominee Ed Harris as Sepp "Christof" Blatter.

LINK

Write into my contract friends and family discount on the QVC channel, and throw in one of those writing upside down pens, and it's a done deal.

"You identify the infraction and the ref walks up to Drog, says, 'You cheated and that's a red and a three game ban. Please leave the pitch'. "

Harry - in one brief sentence you might have just convinced me to do a 180 and support the use of video. Although, I still wonder if the FA couldn't do more after these matches to make amends for the injustices?

Let's just take the ref out the game and let both sides go properly at it.

Ball technology rigged up to the score board for when it enters the net.

Yeah, let's pay 'em two bob a week and a packet of fags like the good old days. (the players that is)

I can offer you a pair of his n' hers velour bathrobes embroidered with the logo 'Hart To Hart', a hand signed photo of Claire Raynor and a bendy pencil.

Someone please go on the OS and look at the video clip "Seb up for the Cup" and let me know if Bass has been bagged and trussed into a mail sack.

I thank you.

looks like...

gomes,hutton,dawson,bassong,bale,lennon,jenas,wilson,bentley,keane,defoe,

walker,corluka,thudd,naughton,rose,crouch,pav,

he really doesn't like pav,and looks like a square peg somewhere,old habits die hard.....

Appreciate the comments, as I like to hear arguments prefereably from those without any particular axes to grind and test my own views in open forum, sadly this thread is almost ready for fish wrapping too (sigh).

My views on technology are based not on the technology but on the failings of people and the same failings we have now will manifest themselves with new tools, not ulike saying our ancestors killed with clubs we use guns the technology has merely expedited the ability to kill. I am convince that the bigger clubs will gain more from technology than they will lose. Wenger and Ferguson in particular (and their successors who will mold themselves upon successful models) will get minutea looked at and Hull and Stoke will only get cast iron reviews which would probably have been spotted anyway. Look at Wenger's reaction to being beaten by Cheatski last weekend, a blade of grass breaks in the 2nd minute and that changes the whole game.....chaos theory at the Emirates!

Look at how the extra time rule is exploited by Ferguson. It was put in place to stop teams going ahead then wasting time, but is used as a method to extend games with the hope of teams changing results at the death............and they do!

Technology will not stop the cheats, it'll just give them another avenue to exploit.

As for advertising, no offence but its pretty niaive to think that stoppages will not be exploited for advertising which they are in most sports and in most countries. The power brokers of football are ultimately controlled by the media as that is where the money is. The bigger clubs will get a slice somewhere out of that revenue stream and make the gap bigger again.

I am not against technology because of a liking for Ned Ludd, I think goal line technology etc. would be good, but it opens the discussion and the people who will frame the discussion are not those who have the game's interests as their primary motivation.

Continued............

I believe a fairer way to approach this is to take the result as it stands but cite and take action after the event. No, it will not allow Ireland into the World Cup or give us the extra 2 points at Old Trafford, but in the longer term will discourage players from taking a dive if they know there is a much higher liklihood of being caught, punished and as I suggested have a broad rule that players do not get paid when suspended as a contractual caveat imposed by the football authorities as a condition of registration, for all.

Again it will not change yesterday but will make a difference to the main problem which is that the cheats face no consequences even if they do get seen/caught. Reviews are far more in the public domain than on-the-spot decisions that in themselves may contain errors. Additionally if a decision is to punish a player and team by a red card during a game any subsequent fault in tha decision leaves us pretty much back at square one.

Review the extra time rule, we all know what happens at Old Trafford, but herin lies the rub: we already know who cheats and we pretty much know how. But the authorities do not and will not investigate the penalties and extra time goals at OT or the 55-70 minute game changing penalties at Highbury, or the diving at Stamford Bridge. Introduce technology and do you think the situation will change? No it will simply be exploired a different way and the authorities will still do FA (pardon the pun).

Agree with your sentimentsn technology.

I feel that the TV companies need to insist that technology is used.
The product they (and we) pay for is flawed.

Get your finger out SKY, ESPN etc.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say the viewers should inundate BSKYB with messages to encourage/demand tachnology and to negotiate with FIFA and UEFA before the next TV contracts are let.

...And we can also campaign to ban the term "top four"!

Agree on Modders. He's been out for a while now and he will need to ease back into things. I wouldn't complain much about him starting from the bench his 1st game or two back in the squad. I can just see us throwing him in his 1st game back, then complaining when his performance isn't what shaded memory thinks it should be.

Ahh. The old video review.

Successful in the NFL? Here's how it works. It isn't a free for all.

For the first 28 minutes of each half, coaches must challenge an official's call to have it reviewed.
Coaches are allowed two challenges per game. If a call is not overturned, the challenging team loses a timeout.
No challenges will be recognized if a team has exhausted its timeouts.
In the final two minutes of each half and in overtime, only the NFL replay assistant in the television booth or press box can call for a video review. There is no limit to the number of replay reviews the replay assistant can request.
A review called for by the replay assistant is not tied to timeouts for either team.
The referee will make all determinations, regardless of time of game, after reviewing videos on a sideline monitor.
A time limit of 90 seconds has been placed on all video reviews.
Replay assistants will be part of a game's officiating crew.

If we adapt it to football...

For the first 40 minutes of each half, managers must challenge an official's call to have it reviewed.
Managers are allowed two challenges per game. If a call is not overturned, the challenging team loses use of a substitute.
No challenges will be recognized if a team has used all of its subs.
In the final five minutes of each half and in time time added on, only the League's replay assistant in the television booth or press box can call for a video review. There is no limit to the number of replay reviews the replay assistant can request.
A review called for by the replay assistant is not tied to substitution allocations for either team.
The referee will make all determinations, regardless of time of game, after reviewing videos on a sideline monitor.
A time limit of 90 seconds has been placed on all video reviews.
Replay assistants will be part of a game's officiating crew.

I would think it could only be used in offside for handball/foul(penalty) decisions

ban the term "top four"






I also want Ainsley Harriot banned. Unrelated to football I guess, but a campaign to do right is a campaign to do right in my book.

Please ignore "I would think it could only be used in offside for handball/foul(penalty) decisions" - computer decided I was posting it before I'd finished...

I would think it could only be used in disputed goals (goal scored involving a player coming from an offside position/ball crossed the line or not), handball or foul offences either which led to a penalty being awarded or not - in otherwords a disputed call.

The spectre of EVERY offside decision being scrutinised is horrific IMO. And as I said before - it isn't exaclty a free for all in say, the NFL - there is a risk-reward scenario.

Much welcomed post. Thank you.

Either way, the very idea we go from one/two blokes who can't be sure for certain to the wholly unforgiving tape de video is a good one.

BIOY Techies.

It's a privilege posting on here is it not? So kind sir, I thank you.

Though the end went a bit pear shaped cos I hadn't finished - and I like to try a bit of proof reading usually before I submit... "time time added on"?

That's far too complicated.

If in doubt the referee should refer to the fourth official / TV ref.

It takes as long as it takes

A team captain can complain about a decision but the referee will decide whether he needs TV assistance. If a captain is complaining too much the referee can caution him.


It's about respecting the referee but the standard of refereeing needs to improve.

It works fine in Rugby.

I think a NFL style replay system would be a disaster for FIFA. Our sport is the greatest on the planet because of the intense, nonstop, commercial-free action. The last thing I want to see is an excuse for the networks to break away while the referee stands on the sideline watching a monitor. Or, even worse, would be a coach who sees a match getting out of hand calling for a replay in order to give his players a break and turn momentum.

The only video system I would even consider would be the NHL system. They have extra certified NHL referees off-ice that watch the replays - while the play continues on. If they see a grave mistake they can then stop the game during a break in play and then reverse a call. This is where I'm not sure how it would work for football as the NHL rolls the game back to the point in time that the mistake occurred. If a penalty or a goal occurs in that timeframe then they are dismissed, because that time theoretically never happened. For football, perhaps this could just be additional added time? How would the referee track this time on his watch? What if a player gets a red card during the dismissed time?

That would be an absolute nightmare. All FIFA needs to do is strictly limit the circumstances under which video review may be undertaken. Basically, if there's not a natural break in play following whatever incident it is that needs to be reviewed, you're outta luck.

Disputed goal? There's already 30-60 seconds pause while the players celebrate. No disruption to the flow of the game in reviewing those.

Penalty? See above, substituting 'argue' for 'celebrate'. By the time they get through whinging about it and everyone's finally lined up for the spot kick, it's usually more like a minute and a half that's elapsed.

Sending off or second bookable offense? See above yet again. Natural break in play, usually some "discussion" happening, shouldn't be a problem to get these right.

And it'd be fine to limit the review period to 60 seconds or, really, as little as 30 seconds. If the decision made on the pitch isn't shown to be obviously incorrect within the allotted time, it stands.

This would affect the game so vanishingly little that it's just baffling why Blatter and his fellow dinosaurs continue to dig their heels in over it. Their fetishization of the referee's authority has simply got to end. At the highest levels, the pace of the game has reached a point where a referee can no longer be relied upon to make the correct decision an acceptable percentage of the time. But I don't blame the refs. The fact that they get so many decisions right is a testament to their skill and professionalism. We're just asking too much of them, and there's too much money at stake in the game these days for the authorities to be content with incorrect decisions--whose consequences can potentially be measured in the tens of millions of pounds--being made on a regular basis at the highest levels of the sport.

spot on - also we must not let this issue become a trojan horse for ad breaks in the middle of a game which sky/chairmen would love to bring in

No wonder you've only got 12 replies! All in all far too intellectual to reach 3 figures!! What do you think Jordan would think of the off-side rule?

You must be width over quality punter. The races worth winning are marathons. Not sprints.

By the way HH, I'm one of the modder's fan club, the sight of PSB playing on our left flank has left me feeling quite dejected.

Before his injury our modders was quite simply sublime - the best player in the premiership at the start of the season IMO.

How can we not be excited by him getting fit and ready to start delivering the goods for us again?

I think there would be very few calls where the re-play would have an impact. Penalties & "was it over?" situations are obvious, but how far should re-plays go?

The Henry Handball is something of a poster child for disputed goals, and I can see the appeal, but how far up the chain of events should we go? What if the pass to Henry started with a handball (then Henry to Gallas for the goal)? The argument then is that the whistle should have stopped play 20 yards up-field, so there wouldn't have been a goal. What if the infringement was 4 passes before the goal?

I guess my point is managers will always look for the advantage, so if reviewable stuff isn't a short list and strictly defined, we would be looking at a bigger mess.

For me, I'd limit use to penalties (including diving), ball over the line, and infringements in the penalty area where advantage is gained. Probably not perfect, but it's a starting point.

Will Modders coming back add something to the team ? Harry is just trying to wind us up, he probably rates Keane as a left sided midfielder

sorry MS,that sounds horrendous,

loses use of substitute.....

i don't see why we would want a challenge system,what about an intelligent person in a VT room,

if it's not a goal/penalty/red card then reverse the decision...sounds like the only way to do it for me,the people will just have to be on the case and sort it out quickly,if they can't tell,the decision stands....

to me the offside decision is the hardest,the linesman can't look at two places at once,but god knows how you sort that out,

whatever they do,the world cup/euro championships and qualifying fot those tournaments seems like the best place to try out technology moves to me...

on krank and modric,i think they are our best technical players,krank looks like a real No 10 all of a sudden,we appear to have quite a nifty team,let's hope they can live up to our expectations for the rest of the season,

i'm not sure i'd get rid of anyone in jan,if we don't have to,whats the point,if harry wants someone new then so be it,but it's very rare players are just going to come in and go BANG!

COYS....BIOYManc's

but not too good eh jfdit....dont want him in the manure/barca shop window just before it opens.

fuck i hope im wrong but and just maybe our league position will make modders think twice cos offers will be acoming

as for Krankie being a striker......i hadnt heard this HH?......apart from that we dont need another one even when Pavlova leaves

I don't think so, 'arry is very cute he'll look at our results since modders got injured and come to the same conclusion as any other person with two eyes & a brain cell - we missed the guy big time.

Crouch will be back on the bench when he's fit

And maybe add direct red cards to the list. Of course, as with diving for a PK, these are such judgment calls that these are all tough to overturn even with video.

for what it's worth.....

my team for 2moro,

i'm not sure the PAV is still at tottenham so i won't put him in...

----------gomes---------
hutton dawson bassong bale
bentley palacios jenas dos santos
------crouch keane--------

alnwick corluka naughton thudd rose defoe and whatever kid is around

some of those players need a run out,it will be interetsing to see what harry does,and if he plays a stronger side....

quite agree, hope Gio is fit, no mention of OS?

that is still a crackin side but would include Lennon on the bench

spot on Dave, the Ref decides as in rugby and cricket I might add, it also kills 2 birds with one stone, the other bird being respect for the ref, The FA are banging on about respect so lets give the the ref something the players have to be respectful about, anyway its our job as supporters to badger the blind twat.

I was on about the Hotspur slag, I will be delighted to see Crouch benched and only used in case of emergancies

KOJAC - I have a hunch 'arry is going to go with his strongest possible side tomorrow, entirely because of the opponent.

If he doesn't, I would like to see Rose in the starting lineup. He looked terrific for the U21 squad playing out on the left and looks like our long term solution at LM (Modders could then be moved back to CM where he belongs).

That's just it, though. If it's too tough to overturn within a minute (or less) of review, the decision stands. Think about the decisions we remember and still piss and moan about to this day, e.g. the Mendes goal that wasn't. Those would be overturned by video within ten seconds. The decisions that are so forehead-smackingly wrong that you're howling about it before you even see a replay; those are the ones it would be most useful to eradicate.

The more grey-area decisions we find ourselves dithering over and deliberating about for ages even after watching numerous replays on MOTD; those should stay as is.

Easy rule of thumb: if it didn't happen inside the 18, no video review. Only exception being fouls adjudged by the ref to be a straight red or a second yellow. That should keep the flow of the games humming merrily along.

Yup, keeping the game moving should be a big part in how any video review is implemented. At the end of the day I'm favor of whatever eliminates as many bad calls as possible, but balanced with minimal disruption.

Remind me; was Henry in or out of the 18 when he handled?

the linesman/assistant ref's flag should have been raised as dunne was challenged by squillaci who had been offside when the free kick was taken. henri subsequently controlled the ball with his arm and then his hand before crossing for gallas. from the replays it is evident that the linesman had a clear line of site to see henri's foul play. i would like the linesman to be asked some questions, has this happened? i never expected a replay. if our misfortune results in the use of technology being implemented (hopefully before the world cup) it would in a way be ireland/henri's legacy to the game. i used to describe maradona's goal against ingerland in 86 as the best ever scored followed quickly by adding that his second wasn't too bad either. i have now changed my mind. COYS.

Who in the hell is talking about Kranjcar as a striker when we already got the likes of Keane and Pav on the bench. I'm sure he'd do a great job but it is completly pointless, even if Pav were to leave in Jan.

Also, as an Irishman who accepts that we aren't gonna be be off to Africa in the summer, I'd just like to make a wee comment on the way the media are treating the whole situation. Its sad to see English journo's sniggering about the FAI's attempts to get any kind of comprehensible response from Blatter regarding the affair. We all know they would be first in the queue to whine if it were England who were cheated But that would never have happened, by the way, simply because England are a "big" team and Fifa would have them seeded up the arse so they'd be up against some pub team in the play-off. The thought of Beckham & co not going to the world cup and all the commercial benefits that would bring would give Blatter an aneurysm.

Y don't we shorten this and just do what we should do as Harry says "ASK THE PLAYERS!".

Very interesting debate. As a member of the overseas party north american branch who gets to watch lots of american football, the coach's challenge thing, video reviews really do work and don't impact on the game that much. But american football is punctuated with stops in play etc etc and is a totally different animal to football. I think video reviews should and can be a part of the game but as people have stated must be kept to a minimum. Maybe goal line, penaltys and goals where there is an obvious infringement that the ref missed. The latest thing to have another referee patrolling the 18 yard box is laughable. Just another person capable of getting it wrong. Bring in the technology.

Have taken tomorrow afternoon off to be able to watch the game on TV. I think it might just be a Spurs cup epic.

Would like to see a full strengh squad. Lets do the Mancs.

COYS

Hate to be a doom merchant, but I don't think we've beaten them in 10 years, and I bet you can count the number of times we've won in the last 20 on less than the fingers of one hand. And that includes twice a season in the league and the irritatingly high number of times we've been drawn against them in a cup, pretty much once a season for the past wee while. It's always preceded by a bunch of 'this time its our time'/'I can feel it in my bones' type comments which only makes it worse.

I'm thoroughly sick of our cup runs being ended by the mancs, it's like we're 'arbitrarily' booted out of a competition at the draw stage - and all that's varied these past few seasons is at what stage of what cup we get drawn against them. I'll eat my hat if that changes tonight, especially with this season's performance against the bigger teams.

Pessimistic I know, but I had to get that off my chest.

How about this:

Captain of team A challenges ref's decision. Ref then asks player concerned in team B if he (the ref) made the right call.

Player from team B either agrees with refs decision or not.

If still in dispute ref sees video, if ref clearly got it wrong player from team B gets yellow card for wasting time and poss yellow for offence. If ref clearly got it right captain of team A gets yellow for wasting time. If not clear original decision stands no yellows.

Eventually players will realise it's better to admit when the ref got it wrong and game will move quicker.

Rednose is playing 'the kids' again apparently.
All to the good for us and a perfect excuse for them if they lose. Which they ought to.

LINK

The FAI are an embarrassment unto the nation.

Why anyone would further humiliate themselves and their country, by cap in handing on a laughable request that is, at best, out there on a limb of a notion of a limb is beyond me.

Bad luck on the match, old boy, but them's the breaks. Slink off and maintain some form of dignified silence. Or at least grumble in a non plaintive manner.

No to replay. Hell to the no on 33 teams. Start flexing rules for these international Accrington Stanleys and where does it end? They do greater service to football as pseudo-tragic pariahs than they're ever going to do on the pitch in South Africa.

Whether you admit it or not, my clover clutching chums, this is your finest hour. Be Irish Spartacus, and do so quietly, if you don't mind.

If the ref has video available, why would he need to go through all that Judge Judy shenanigans?

I`d much rather the Irish went that those cheating French cunts

Than

How long does it take to review a questionable situation to determine whether it warrants a review?

A few seconds.

All it requires is for there to be dialogue between the ref and a 5th offical in a TV box - it doesnt have to be an offical 'timeout'. The 5th official just needs a quick 'hold fire on diecision whilst i look at again' in his ear or vice versa if the ref wants a quick second opinion. It doesnt need to be intrusive to the game.

The dialogue can be fluid and discrete with no distinction between decisions made by the ref or by the video replay.

How does refering for a quick second opinion to an official with a TV screen differ from a ref consulting the linesman?

Correct and right.

The older I get, the less tolerant I become. I seem to wander around muttering, swearing far more than I ever did. Phrases such as 'ease of use', 'who designed this?', 'Piece of dog muck' and the ever versatile, '21st Century, we're in the the 21st Century' seem to be on a loop.

'The best things in life are free'.
Wrong.

The best things in life are fucking simple. We can establish their bestness by their longevity and how well they have 'caught on' amongst humans.

So the list would include, sex, chips, ketchup, lego, movies, music, alcohol, coffee, cocaine.

Stuff that reliably works.

Things thay don't work would have to include teeth. No matter how well you slave over them only one in three bazillion people have never visitd a dentist.

Touch screens. 'It's greasy' No, just inherently bad design.

Apple Mac laptops. Heavier than dead body and as helpful. Probably looked space age in 1996. They don't fucking work. If they did they'd have a bigger market share. And as I don't buy into their reigous cult, but just want ease of use I'm neither conned or convinced.

So to football. You can put a wall of officials around the touchline and it still wouldn't work.

I've given the solution before. A panel of 3 consisting of ex players/managers etc who look at the VT and call it right live.

The time required can be mopped up by the inevitable replays etc.

Funny how folk who whine about the time consuming nature of using VT don't dwell on all the time thugs like Rooney and Terry spend chasing and pleading with the referee.

Shine a bright light upon what doesn't work, what's riddled with human error and bad design and bin it.

Let's start with refereeing errors.

Technology is a must have in todays game. The quicker it's implemented and the quicker and simpler the process is applied within the 90minutes the better and more beneficial to all.

Septic Tank Blather and people in general are the ones that make it far more complicated than it needs to be. Lets do it now (as Dani Lloyd said to Jamie O'H .... about the wedding of course).

Having listened to Septic Blatter's news conference, I have to agree with the FAI that a confidential and private approach to FIFA has been patronisingly dealt with (including the sniggering press corps wjo were present)and misrepresented.

Blatter was courting popularity at the expense of the Irish (it could have been anybody) and he should apologise.

'Spurs have had bad decisions against teams who are perceived as bigger by BSkyB - and we create merry hell.

Blatter is trying to cover the cracks with his misplaced humour. A serious issue with which he is incapable of dealing.

He and Platini need to admit they are wrong. But first they need to be told they are wrong.

You and I are not vable to do that. But the big Corporations are.

Where's the media when you need them?

You have just put into words the effect that reaching 45 has on most males.

I hope you are 45 or you're peaking too early; there'll be no hope for you when you get to 50!

A month from now the Apple movement will gain such legs that you will long for the the halcyon days of mild fanaticism we live in today.

You can add the BBC Micro B to the list though. That purveyor of Chuckie Egg gold. If the youth of today only had a bit of Chuckie Egg in their empty lives, there'd be a lot less ruddy stabbings, I'll tell you that for the price of nowt.

I agree that FIFA need to be given a message. I agree that the media can play a part in counter signing that message. But I disagree that the current message is the correct message.

Ireland got fucked, yes. But using this opportunity to beg FIFA: 'please sir, give us another chance' is an opportunity wasted. The only issue FIFA should be pressured into considering is that of introducing video resources.

Instead we have this 33rd team malarkey eating up space on my back page, which smacks of headless chickenery.

LINK

The link above needs to be watched until the end to show how FAI's confidential case was handled patronisingly and in public.

Yes Ireland were beaten. But it will happen to others.

The 33rd team question, according to the FAI's response, was nothing more than one point in a list of others.

The bigger picture, not Ireland's response to a cheating incident, needs to be looked at.

Your back pages will always be like this unless cheating is made accountable.

Quite agree thats its got to be a decision via video. Real times decisions will always be subject to human error.

The controversy will come if they're used for penalties where its an interpretation of a rule for fouls and hand-ball. Pundits disagree all the time about whether contact is made. Handball is a minefield, with the intention rule. For me, a shot on target blocked by an arm should always be a pen, intention or not.

A 3 man panel may only add confusion as there will certainly be disagreement, it could take time to reach a majority decision, I would go with a single video ref as per rugby.

ireland are currently no.36 in the fifa rankings and could not be described as an international accrington stanley. we went through our qualifying group unbeaten and second only to the world champions italy. as an irish football supporter i have never felt represented by our association the fai. they like many other national associations, the english fa included, have a history of bungling embarrassments. over two play-off matches against the french we were the better team but did not convert this dominance into goals(see villa v spurs). we were on the receiving end of a very poor decision which assisted the french on their way to south africa. there was never going to be a replay but the use of available technologies to assist the match officials will finally be introduced much as a result of henri's foul play. i wonder what kind of service to football england and their notorious 'supporters' will do in south africa. given your team and 'supporters' record i am sure that once more they will do you proud. service to football my arse.
away win tonight,COYS.

Wholeheartedly agree 'chucks, The FAI have yet again made me cringe with embarassment with their "humble proposal".

The keystone cops act that is John Delaney & co only open their collective mouths to extricate one foot and replace it with the other.

Laughing stock doesn't do it justice. I for one would rather draw a line under the whole fiasco and move on, and wish the cheating, french goon all the nastiest shit that can happen to one person. Would love to see him do a "Tiger Woods" too.

To more serious and pressing matters, if we carry our second half performance at Villa to OT this evening for the full 90, I reckon we'll be in the hat for the semis.(after added, added, added time)

My only wish for a positive outcome from this whole, fucking pantomime, is that the implementation of some sort of real-time video replay/goal line technology that is available to the ref will stop those cheating wankers getting away with murder.

Do you mean their "confidential humble proposals?"

Blatter's the one you should be aiming at.

All national FAs are the same.

It's the fans who really get hurt...and the infrastructure at grass roots.

If that is your only wish then you will be disappointed.

We need martyrs to the cause. Unless we have them you will get buggar all from FIFA.

...or UEFA.

Who is going to take on Blatter and Platini and realistically expect some sort of positive result?
You have a case to be answered, then those cunts just move the goalposts again, make up their own rules to suit themselves, e.g. seeding countries for play-offs.

Exactly.

You are the proletariat!

Answer:

The media. Particularly the TV companies who make the game what it is - money grabbing.

But if they offered video replays as part of the package we might get somewhere.

They could also add that they would like to get rid of Blatter...only half serious, there!

This whole debate seems really over complicated to me

Whilst we have old "fuddy duddy" technophobes in charge of our great game, things like this will always be an uphill battle!

Just like teaching your old granny how to use the PC, you have to keep it simple and introduce Video technology slowly!

In reality the amount of time the ref would need to turn to the video would quite limited, IF only used for situations where their view is blocked by a player and/or they and the assistant ref were not up with play!

What does the 4th official really do anyway, checking studs putting up the extra time and having his hair dried by rednose is not really a full time job is it?

If Sky supply an immediate replay from all angles, the ref can radio the 4th official, see IF they can verify the decision and then get on with the game !
IF Managers give said 4th official a hard time, they immediately get a touchline ban and IF any ref is relying to heavily on the video the ref association and premier league meet them and give them yellow card!

It's blatantly obvious that video replays need to be introduced, everyone can see that. And I do think it's now a matter of when rather than if.

As someone said earlier, it's not about eradicating every single refereeing mistake. It's about getting head-bangingly stupid mistakes overturned.

I'll eat my hat if that changes tonight

Fergies playing the kids.

How big is that hat of yours ?

Fer realz. I'm trying to convince myself why I shouldn't expect a win tonight. I think our second string is better than ManU's kiddie corps. I mean, those Besiktas guys did them at Old Trafford, and they're rubbish.

We will have Fergie tonight, no problem

if the FA or the the Prem people(whoever they are) were still actually in charge of english football,we would have video replay help for the referee by now,

blatter/platini want the rules to be the same for everyone and to control english football and it's money,if only we were still in charge of our own things....

we should tell fifa/eufa that we will make our own decisions for our game thank you

i think you're right daytripper,i think harry might play a full strength side,he usually actually does,

for once i'm not that fussed about the result tonight aslong as we play attacking football and go for goals,so i wouldn't mind having a look at the fringe lads tonight....either way i'm happy right now...

Can't agree Harry, the rules are very clear on the Irish match and technology will suck the life out of the game and make it even more weighted than it already is towards the top table clubs.

The ref makes decisions and sometimes they are shockers but what happens on the pitch between first and final whistle is the whole shebang and the final score stands even if the ref is hopeless. We of all people should know that when you look at the Mendes goal; the result stands, that's the game. Sometimes the sun shines on your back other times the wind is in your face: and that's part of an Irish saying. Life's unfair sometimes and so is football: get over it!

As for technology it is just a means by which the Wengers and Ferguson's will manipulate more points at the expense of less experienced managers and finacially weaker teams. The controversy is part of the life of the game: remove that and its suddenly bland.

We already have the mechanisms in place to deal with some unfair situations, cite players who cheat under the "bringing the game into disrepute" laws. Review games and cite incidents, players, managers and teams: it is (generously interpreted) within the laws of the game and should be used to punish those who profit by cheating. So much of it goes on because it works, even with video there is still difficulty in assessing the absolutes. Wenger and Co. will be there demanding replays and matches played again every time they drop points if they are allowed to. Review each game, dock points or give 3 match bans to players caught cheating and you'll find that the Pires's and Drogbas will stop doing it, especially if they don't get paid when they are under suspension. But hold up the game for a replay every time Wenger does not see an incident?

The push for technology is really all about stoppages to accomodate adverts, the game and the fans have little to gain. Who are its main advocates? Those paid by TV companies.... co-incidence?

The game is in disrepute, when was the last time we got a favourable decision against any of the top four. Get the cameras in there is no argument against as far as I`m concerned. You do remember Pedro`s no goal at Old Trafford and the penalty decision when we were wining 0-2 last season. Blatter laughing at Ireland is the last straw if he was a man he`d fuck off the crooked bastard

Some good points Finn, but if we all had that attitude we would have stuck with a square wheel!

Should all the class not go on the school trip just because of the behaviour of 1 or 2 naughty kids?

Just because something is open to possible misuse, that is not reason enough to make it a none starter!

I think the win some lose some ideology does not really apply in the modern game. Its now faster, with a lot more at stake and if there is any opportunity to do away with Human error, I believe with should use it!

Your also talking more about retrospective reviews, which take place now anyway. If the 4th assistant is an assistant to the ref, then he should be able to help with any decision on the spot.

SAF won't be playing whippersnappers tonight. It's unlikely he'll be taking the league title to Manchester this season, and CL doesn't look too promising.

This piece of silverware has wormed its way up his list of priorities by default.

If we're to end our 20 year Old Trafford hoodoo, we'll have to beat men, not boys.

The camera never lies. That's an old non-Irish saying.

How are you managing to come to the conclusion that video footage is going to "make [the game]even more weighted than it already is towards the top table clubs"

I'm also slightly bemused by your main advocates signoff as well, while we're about it. I'm yet to find anyone who thinks continuum is preferable over Hawkeye technology. Are you saying everyone I have met is working for the media? Because if I'm living some kind of Truman show, that would, like, be totally awesome.

Good to see an argument of someone opposing the video replays. I disagree with most of your points though.

The bias towards the top 4 is all about shocking decisions going their way. With video technology it sure to reduce the number of these decisions and therefore even up the game from a officiating point of view. Would it be possible for the Mendes goal to not be given if video replays were used? Not a chance, but without video technology, noone can argue with the Wenger response of 'I did not see it'.

I also actually truly believe that good use of video technology can add extra to the game. In Rugby, which is similar in terms of continuous none stop play, video technology is used effectively and reduces the chance of fans going home knowing they have been kicked in the teeth by an awful decision. Where people argue that the injustice, or luck, is a part of the beauty of the game to allow interesting debates, does any fan on the wrong end of a shocking decision enjoy coming on to a website to rant about the poor reffing. It's good to vent out the frustrationg of being 'cheated' out of a game, but I can almost guarantee that it would be far more satisfying having the decisions fair.

And I disagree about this being pushed for to accomodate for adverts. It's a typically American thing and I can honestly say I've never seen any adverts come on when video technology such as Hawk eye is being used.

'technology will suck the life out of the game'

By life you must mean that feeling of having been hard done by. My mother was a great one for using the phrase 'real life' to mean any injustices, hardships or any manner of negatives one might encounter.

I see the opposite. Technology will remove the vampires that bleed my enjoyment. The unsighted and stubborn traffic wardens in black. The clowns that didn't see what millions of others did.

It will also rid the opportunity for managers, captains and any others with 'An Opinion To Share' from equally ruining me trying to watch a game of football.

Your commendable paragraph on the exisiting mechanisms for dealing with 'problems' is entirely accurate, but realy does rather sadly sum up the quagmire of appeals and point docking that is out dated and depressing.

Great Johnny Cash line. 'What is done in the dark will be seen in the light'. Probably originally Zechariah, but hey.

We need to shine a fucking searchlinght on these parasites.

Drogba simulated and dived? Replay the damn tape. It takes seconds. There is no time for ad space to be sold. Andy Gray watches stuff three times in slomo and it only takes him seconds.

That's what she said.

You identify the infraction and the ref walks up to Drog, says, 'You cheated and that's a red and a three game ban. Please leave the pitch'.

Judge Dredd is what we want. Instnat justice that works. I tell you now, the crime rate with fall.

One of the reason this 'Big Club' bollocks is allowed to exist is because of this whole delay of referee reports and FA meetings. Sack the whole process and show me instant full colour justice. Chelsea players saunter into these things armed with barristers and gawd knows what. They are playing the %'s.

Transparency is cool. It's unforgiving and lays bare the cheats and their masters in a heartbeat.

Ferguson sent to the stands? I want to watch him walk. Watch him brought to heel - LIVE

'if I'm living some kind of Truman show, that would, like, be totally awesome.'



Yeah, but you'd be on Freeview

Starring Academy Award nominee Ed Harris as Sepp "Christof" Blatter.

LINK

Write into my contract friends and family discount on the QVC channel, and throw in one of those writing upside down pens, and it's a done deal.

"You identify the infraction and the ref walks up to Drog, says, 'You cheated and that's a red and a three game ban. Please leave the pitch'. "

Harry - in one brief sentence you might have just convinced me to do a 180 and support the use of video. Although, I still wonder if the FA couldn't do more after these matches to make amends for the injustices?

Let's just take the ref out the game and let both sides go properly at it.

Ball technology rigged up to the score board for when it enters the net.

Yeah, let's pay 'em two bob a week and a packet of fags like the good old days. (the players that is)

I can offer you a pair of his n' hers velour bathrobes embroidered with the logo 'Hart To Hart', a hand signed photo of Claire Raynor and a bendy pencil.

Someone please go on the OS and look at the video clip "Seb up for the Cup" and let me know if Bass has been bagged and trussed into a mail sack.

I thank you.

looks like...

gomes,hutton,dawson,bassong,bale,lennon,jenas,wilson,bentley,keane,defoe,

walker,corluka,thudd,naughton,rose,crouch,pav,

he really doesn't like pav,and looks like a square peg somewhere,old habits die hard.....

Appreciate the comments, as I like to hear arguments prefereably from those without any particular axes to grind and test my own views in open forum, sadly this thread is almost ready for fish wrapping too (sigh).

My views on technology are based not on the technology but on the failings of people and the same failings we have now will manifest themselves with new tools, not ulike saying our ancestors killed with clubs we use guns the technology has merely expedited the ability to kill. I am convince that the bigger clubs will gain more from technology than they will lose. Wenger and Ferguson in particular (and their successors who will mold themselves upon successful models) will get minutea looked at and Hull and Stoke will only get cast iron reviews which would probably have been spotted anyway. Look at Wenger's reaction to being beaten by Cheatski last weekend, a blade of grass breaks in the 2nd minute and that changes the whole game.....chaos theory at the Emirates!

Look at how the extra time rule is exploited by Ferguson. It was put in place to stop teams going ahead then wasting time, but is used as a method to extend games with the hope of teams changing results at the death............and they do!

Technology will not stop the cheats, it'll just give them another avenue to exploit.

As for advertising, no offence but its pretty niaive to think that stoppages will not be exploited for advertising which they are in most sports and in most countries. The power brokers of football are ultimately controlled by the media as that is where the money is. The bigger clubs will get a slice somewhere out of that revenue stream and make the gap bigger again.

I am not against technology because of a liking for Ned Ludd, I think goal line technology etc. would be good, but it opens the discussion and the people who will frame the discussion are not those who have the game's interests as their primary motivation.

Continued............

I believe a fairer way to approach this is to take the result as it stands but cite and take action after the event. No, it will not allow Ireland into the World Cup or give us the extra 2 points at Old Trafford, but in the longer term will discourage players from taking a dive if they know there is a much higher liklihood of being caught, punished and as I suggested have a broad rule that players do not get paid when suspended as a contractual caveat imposed by the football authorities as a condition of registration, for all.

Again it will not change yesterday but will make a difference to the main problem which is that the cheats face no consequences even if they do get seen/caught. Reviews are far more in the public domain than on-the-spot decisions that in themselves may contain errors. Additionally if a decision is to punish a player and team by a red card during a game any subsequent fault in tha decision leaves us pretty much back at square one.

Review the extra time rule, we all know what happens at Old Trafford, but herin lies the rub: we already know who cheats and we pretty much know how. But the authorities do not and will not investigate the penalties and extra time goals at OT or the 55-70 minute game changing penalties at Highbury, or the diving at Stamford Bridge. Introduce technology and do you think the situation will change? No it will simply be exploired a different way and the authorities will still do FA (pardon the pun).