The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves

Harry, hate to say I told you so .. I could see very early on in the season that this current set up is a ticking time bomb .. we are in serious trouble .. I'm not going to make any suggestions or call for heads because they are the people who know what they are doing .. we're just the mugs paying for it all ..

if its alright with you I am going to take a few weeks off from the site and newsnow and all things Tottenham (especially watching the f/ckers).. its not fair on those around me when my mood is directly affected by the results .. I cant see it getting any better for a while .. hence the vacation .. I wait in hope but sense despair.

As always, I am an optimist.

Here, here, Harry. Common sense. Ramos is a top manager and we're not going to find anyone better. It's going to take time to get the team right but when it does then there'll be no limits as there undoubtedly was under Jol. Have to look to the long term and be patient. If anyone saw the game today then they may have noticed tha that was our best home performance yet despite the scoreline.

bring back glenn hoddle

I'm at a loss for words, I don't know who to blame other than DC. We're too big to go down though eh?! Try telling that to Leeds! I am seriously worried that we may end up in a relegation dog fight with Stoke and Newcastle at this rate. I've got tickets to see the Liverpool game in Nov, anyone else want it instead? Don't fancy seeing us get beat 0-7!

Some goal from the boy. Binning Ramos would be wrong IMO but I'm too far detached from the effects the results are having to have may view be taken seriously.

When Jol was axed he was still backed by 90% of Spurs fans and it was the boards decision to recruit Ramos. When he joined I thought within a few months we would be playing swift attacking football like Seville played - how wrong I was. Apart from the excellent Carling cup run and victory his year in charge has been appalling. Every Surs fan knows that we need an experienced ball winning, experienced midfielder, a quality left midfielde or left full back ( depending on where Bale plays ) and a replacement for King - who although is a superb player should be a squad player because of his injuries. None of these positions were filled and I can't understand why. Instead we buy Bentley when we have Lennon, and Modric when we have Jenas. We also buy lightweight players like Giovanni & Modric when the premier league is all about power, strength and pace. As for the forwards Bent is not good enough and not a Spurs type of player, Campbell is an untried rookie at this level, Pavlechenko is also untried at the top league level and will take time to adapt to a new Country. Defoe and Keane were never replaced and now we are paying the penalty.
WE ARE in a relegation fight, we don't score any goals, create few chances and offer little protection to our fragile defence and offer no threat from corners and set pieces. The 'team' lacks direction, motivation, fight, passion and a sense of purpose. Ramos seems to pick the 'team' at random - no fan could possible guess the first 11 before a game and to appoint Jenas as acting captain is a joke - Woody was the only choice. Although the board and Commoli share a large amount of the blame for this crisis Ramos must be axed now - in the short term it is the only solution. Have no idea who to replace him with, maybe a caretaker manager to get us out of the shit until the end of the season.
Totally pissed off and cannot think of anything positive about the situation apart from the Spurs supportes - who have been fab in awfull times
COYS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I totaly agree, that was not a performance of a team going down.
We just need that spark to get us up and running.
I'd be intrested to see your player ratings, Bale, Campbell, Dos Santos were all poor for me.

Ramos - top manager. You get evaluated on results. In this case the results and the performances are really really bad. Clearly something is not going right. Only Kaboul spoke out so far - who will be the next to speak out. Sometime a good coach is brilliant in some leagues but no in others - due to cultural issues etc. I live in South Africa where Phillippe Troussier never really fitted in yet he did a terrific job with Japan. The different cultures played a huge part.

You're right - there is no point complaining we have to get on with it. We have dealt our own cards and have to deal with it.

First stop: lets shoot Ramos
Second - Butcher Comolli
Third - buy, buy, buy Bullard for midefield and boris karlov for defence.
Fourth - physically board up out goal - am happy to supply the wood

ramos out!

i want glenn hoddle back as manager. i want gerry francis as his assistant. i want el tel as director of football. and i want david ginola as an attacking coach.

get that and the glory days will be back for us.

i think we are on the down well dont think i know so.. what we need is to get rid of that twat of a director of football and allso get rid of ramose cause hes useless.. we need a good no nonsense english manager that understands the english game

Reply to sid trotter:

You're right - there is no point complaining we have to get on with it. We have dealt our own cards and have to deal with it.

First stop: lets shoot Ramos
Second - Butcher Comolli
Third - buy, buy, buy Bullard for midefield and boris karlov for defence.
Fourth -...

no need for the wood mate, theres enough planks around WHL at the mo

and to that person that said bring back glen hoddle yeah he was a good player but ffs m8 he fails as a manager we all saw it once before

daniel levy needs to sale up cause he aint got a f***ing clue? we dont need a director of football we need a good manager that can buy his own players and not have some ex gooner scum trying to f**k us up...

Wake up and smell the coffee, something has to change now before it is too late for us to avoid relegation. I simply cannot understand the complacency about the situation we are in. Although i have some limited sympathy for Ramos regarding the stupid purchases the club made over the summer that does not explain or inability to keep a clean sheet, it does not explain our random team selections, it does not explain why King played on Thursday rather than in a more important league cup and does not explain why easily our best player today, Lennon, was taken off t the time that BMJ was undermined and then sacked I knew we would regret the stupidity of the decision, however to get out of this mess Ramos must go now.

super glenn has never been given enough time or a fair chance at any of his managerial jobs. he has been out of the limelight for a while, learnt from that twat wenger at monaco and is definitely the man to take us back to the glory, glory tottenham days.

Harry you seem to have a bit of brown on the end your nose and its not a freckle.

we cant afford to wait january for the arrival of Arshavin (if he will even come now, could end up at City). Should we take yet another risk like Pav, Modric and Giovani and make a swoop now for the Fat Ronaldo and Appiah??? probably cost us £150,000 a week in wages, but surely a better bet than the clowns we are playing with at the Minute???

Stoke, Bolton, Arsenal Liverpool.

Realistic points accumulated from these games???

Reply to Steve:

Wake up and smell the coffee, something has to change now before it is too late for us to avoid relegation. I simply cannot understand the complacency about the situation we are in. Although i have some limited sympathy for Ramos regarding the stupid purchases the club made over the summer that does...

Go on Steve.

You've barely begun.

Who do you put in once you've lodged JR?

Not looking for a row - just curious...

Thank fook I couldn't get sopcast working, another pile of cack.... The way Ramos has been chopping & changing the side all season, he is largely responsible for the form of our side, or lack of it. Persisting with square pegs & Bellend Eccunto has cost us dearly already, & don't bullsh*te me with players need resting, after 8 poxy league games???!!! (King excluded of course) Poor dears, lets hope the old credit crunch ain't affecting them too heavily.. We should have been fielding our strongest side in the league with our "top" :-| players in their natural positions from day one, that's if champs was truly our ambition, we're not exactly Man U for depth are we?!!. I love King, but should have faced facts & bought a replacement this summer, not a squad player (ie Corluka). I've had a few friends laugh at me for saying this, but it was nice to hear Graham Roberts back me up on setanta, bring in Ronaldo. If he's getting fit as rumoured, pay the man a wage, he's not contracted & still managed 17 goals before his last injury. Granted a temporary measure, but it'll bring with him a much needed lift for the side, & probably good for youngsters like GDS to learn from. Even if it's only til Jan. We gotta sit at the bottom for another two weeks now, two weeks of humiliation, thanks. If it's gonna happen, Ramos should go early this week, bring in Venables for his man management skills & groom Poyet for the hotseat. Comolli, get that sh*tbag piece of arse scum as far away from our club as possible please. Rant nearly over, but WTF didn't we buy a decent holding midfielder this summer while I'm at it?? Jesus, talk about meltdown, league over after less than a quarter of a season. (Nearly missed your new thread Harry!)

Was a the game today and the effot was better but the problem lies in the final third. We can't give the forwards decent ball to run on to.

Sacking Ramos will not help and strong minds and strong heads are needed at the moment.

Commolli has fucked up big time and will surely be sen the door

Levy too has a lot to answer for but he does have our best interests at hear as well as our wallets

Patience guys, patience...

Reply to top4tott:

super glenn has never been given enough time or a fair chance at any of his managerial jobs. he has been out of the limelight for a while, learnt from that twat wenger at monaco and is definitely the man to take us back to the glory, glory tottenham days.

Glenda wasn't given enough time?

so, pulling the mat out from under Ramos' feet right now when we are in full blown 'transition' mode for the umteenth time is justifiable in what way?

When the next clown in charge starts rebuilding 'his' team, will you give him much time?

Lies/effot?


Oops

Reply to Gaz:

Stoke, Bolton, Arsenal Liverpool.

Realistic points accumulated from these games???

Dont worry about the other 3 mate, the stoke game is HUGE.
I do think Ramos will go if we get nothing from that one.
(I can see us getting 3 points up there and climbing off the foot of the table)

It is becoming progressively harder and harder for me to take this. It's not that Ramos never had the tools to do his job, the tools were there at the end of the season when he looked at Tainio and Malbranque and said they weren't good enough, and sent them both into Roy Keane's arms.

Be that as it may, there is still enough skill on this team to win something, even against bloody Hull, Stoke, the Mackems....fuckin Wigan for christ sake! We should be mopping the floor with these teams!

Isn't the hallmark of good man-management the ability to take what you have, recognize the abilities and flaws of those under you and put them into positions where they are able to complement each other?

These squad selections are fucking ludicrous, Dos Santos is a natural left-winger, Modric is a natural AM, Lennon and Bentley are both right wingers...

And what about guys like Stalteri? Isn't he a bloody full-back? Why don't we play him there instead of Zokora, or Jenas or fuckin anyone else who isn't a fullback?

I understand these are the same gripes had on behalf of the sorry lot we support, but to me it's becoming increasingly clear that something fundamental is not being done. It's not the manager, it's not the board, it's not the players. The whole apparatus of this club needs to be revamped and revitalised, from the bloke who chops the lawn at the training grounds, to the man who signs those retarded cheques the rest of us only dream about.

The only way to effectively do this, is new ownership. I see it in the other sports I follow, in ice hockey, in gridiron and in basketball. Someone needs to come in to make the hard decisions, someone without friends and loyalties, who's willing to put their money where their mouth is.

I actually rate Ramos, which is why this whole sad story is leaving me confused and lost. I's like I picked up a beautiful woman, only to have her steal my car and leave me wandering around naked in the street, muttering to myself about how things really should have been.

It seems to me Harry, that when you are in shit it is time to stop wriggling or you will sink further in it. With the squad of players that JR has to call on things can only better. The league top six has already gone, so the cups are all we got. Perhaps in Jan we will get some of the players that we need. Unless they cock that up like this summer. All we can do is hope.

Reply to corlukas-veruka:

Harry you seem to have a bit of brown on the end your nose and its not a freckle.

It's a Minstrel.

Sunday night is Minstrel Balancing Night in the Hotspur household.

Harry is right we all need to get real.

I was at the match and it was in the main a much better team performance. We had shape, players seemed to know what to do and there was an urgency about us. Several players played really well and even my personal whipping boy JJ grafted and fought for everything.

So why did we lose ? I hear you scream.

We lost because we do not appear to have any strikers. We created so many chances that if someone told me it was more than a hundred I might believe them. We hit high centres low centres , pull backs, little through balls etc etc but our strikers failed to capitalise on them.

The pick of the misses was a crossed ball to Bent just outside the six yard box unmarked but on his left foot !!!!! So of course he fluffed it. If Defoe had been playing or Yakubu or Gibril Cisse we would have won comfortably.

Anyone who blames Ramos need a reality check fact is we have sold three top quality strikers without replacing them. OK Pav may come good but Benty was 4th choice this time last year and shows no sign of becoming anything decent. Ramos does not sign the players Commolli does if someone should be blamed it's that useless piece of French merde.

Have to weigh up keeping faith that Ramos, versus giving any replacement enough time to save us.

Still plenty of games left, I reckon Ramos will be here at the end of October, but after that?

Have you ever thought of Education!

Sorry, not saying Ramos should be sacked, but it's his fault our team has yet to gel - players in wrong positions, quite simply wrong players selected, & not allowing players to have a run together. The blame for our lack of goals lies with Cockmolli who should be sacked IMO. If Ramos loses the dressing room (& I'm not convinced he hasn't already) then he has to go, simple.

When Ferguson took over Man U he nearly got sacked in the first couple of seasons...what a mistake that would have been. Through their patience and foresight he went on to create one of the greatest dynastys within football.

Those that have experience in management of any form know it takes time to gel a team. ie Forming Storming Norming Performing. This is an on going cycle, hence with the reshuffle in the it started again. We are now in the storming phase where players are establishing their roles within the team. Once they havedone so theywill start to normalise and steady the ship. Then and only then will they start to perform to their potential.

Admitedly we are lacking in stickforce which will make things hard. However once the teams confidence starts to return our present strick force will suffice til January.

Whilst it is good that fans are passionate and want the taem to win, it is not only unproductive, fikkle and naive to give up on Ramos and the team it is also not the actions of a true fan.

I wear my Spurs Jacket with pride and shall continue to do so. Whilst it is good for fans to express their view I will not support inexperienced and niave views from those that are easily demotivated.I think we have witnessed enough poor decision making and treachery within our club without our fans assisting them, the press and other clubs.

Now is the time for a rally cry...not devision and derision
"To DARE is to DO"

Reply to HarryHotspur:

Reply to corlukas-veruka:

Harry you seem to have a bit of brown on the end your nose and its not a freckle.

It's a Minstrel.

Sunday night is Minstrel Balancing Night in the Hotspur household.

you should try peanut m&m's much more skill involved

Reminiscing,eh?Marvellous.And enduring.OK,I read Martin Jols piece in the times today,how we had a backbone of English players and two successive seasons of a top 5 finish,and a dodgy curry the only thing keeping us out of the european champions league and fame and fortune.Then what,we let Martin go,much against everybodys wishes,sold every Englishman we had and the ship sunk without trace taking all hands with her.
If only we had martin back and everything would be fine and dandy.Get rid of juande,get rid of Levy cos what did the buggers ever do for us,eh?
Gave us a cup,thats what for starters.Buried millions into buying new players to bring us up to the next level,where we could compete realistically with the top four and push on because lets face it ladies and gentlemen our homegrown backbone were simply not going to cut it at the rarified levels we were looking to aspire to.
It hasn't worked out.Yet.Because this is a game of inches,and we have some top quality players out there that so many teams would give their eye teeth for.
We need some glue,and I think Hutton on his return will supply that.Our movement and passing has on occasion been the best i have ever seen at this club however,we need penetration in the last quarter on the pitch,and i think that will come,unfortunately it may not come until january,but come it undoubtedly will.
Our Levy has done his level best to make us the team du jour and hats off to the man.
It will come.
One final thing,2007-11 games and one victory against derby last year-as much as I loved the man Martin had to go.Ask me about Juande in 11 games.
We are so close to doing it right.Keep the faith.

Agreed. Let's retain some perspective and give Juande and Gus the time they need (that said, after his role in the the departure of MJ and his decisions since, I reserve judgement on our current DoF). I should add, that, as a lifelong fan, (my 1st visit to the Lane was 41 years ago), I'm fairly used to us under-performing. For those who've forgotten along the way, It's part of being a football fan. It makes the glory all the sweeter when it comes, and come it will; just have some belief: we expect the players to but all too often show little of it ourselves. I must admit I grow weary of those who's loyalty seems only a few games deep. Perhaps they need to live through a relegation, as in '77, to experience chronic despair and real failure. We're some way off that, trust me, but even if it should happen, which I very much doubt, so be it. Let's remind ourselves, none of us contributing to this key website actually play for the team, we're simply supporters. That doesn't mean that we don't matter, far from it. Our role is to support the side, through thick and thin - and to be mindful of how we conduct ourselves; we are after all part of THFC. We must aspire to the same glory ideal ourselves that we expect we wish of the guys on the pitch, in both our own spirit and behaviour. Booing them off demeans them - and us. Shouldn't we try to support them more generously each game - and applaud them at the end of it - no matter how well or badly they do? The way some of our number have reacted to our poor start, and how some former players have continued to receive stick years after they've moved on has deeply saddened me: Trust me when Sol, Berba or Robbie next play at the Lane, I'll be standing up applauding them -they served us well when they were with us and left because, well, that's they way the game has become. We want our management and players to stand up and be counted: perhaps we should show them the way by demanding the same standards of ourselves.

Reply to Winegum:

When Ferguson took over Man U he nearly got sacked in the first couple of seasons...what a mistake that would have been. Through their patience and foresight he went on to create one of the greatest dynastys within football.

Those that have experience in management of any form know it...

Winegum - you talk good sense. Read his post people. It takes time to breed success.

Reply to yet11:

Reminiscing,eh?Marvellous.And enduring.OK,I read Martin Jols piece in the times today,how we had a backbone of English players and two successive seasons of a top 5 finish,and a dodgy curry the only thing keeping us out of the european champions league and fame and fortune.Then what,we let Martin...

At last sensable level headed thanking. This is the sort of support we need.

Here's an idea... A bit radical I suppose but:

Why don't we pack the f**k out Stoke in a couple of weeks.. sing our bloody hearts out for the lads, the team we all love, show THEM that WE care, quit booing and all play our part in getting us out of this shit. I'm hurting, hurting like mad, watching my team fall apart and unable to help, but I can. I can sing, shout, lap and make enough noise for someone out there to hear..

So come on boys and girls, it's our club, lets get behind them and do our bit.

COYS - BIOYC!!!!!!

At a bit off a loss here tonight... i'm not angry, just fed up, fed up with the dross we're getting served up, i expected defeat today, cause like every other spurs fans i know our frailties, and knew we would be out battled. The concerns are we cannot buy anyone until January, and i seriously worry that what we have at our disposal will just be steamrolled by every other team...at least at the moment...
Unfortunately, i see no restbite, we have Stoke away next game, then Bolton (who will surely out battle us), we then have the Arse and Liverpool, 4 defeats on the spin could leave us with 2 points from 11 games. I'm sorry but that is a very realistic situation right now, we cannot stop goals going in, we cannot create chances, and we cannot score goals, we dont have enough heart in the team. We urgently need new blood, but that will be January at the earliest, and by then we could be dead and buried. Ramos, i want to believe in, but unfortunately if he cannot, and it's obvious to see get any more out of the players at his disposal, then it maybe time for a change before we're dead and buried, but then who do we get in? Who is their too replace. We need to keep behind the team, as otherwise, as per normal we'll kill any chance of them turning the tide, that said sometimes a change in management can help us as fans to, to get behind the manager, and team, feel like there's new direction...
Right now it's no time for kids, we need the experienced players. I would be building from the back, and trying not to concede, even a couple of nil-nils would be an improvement.

yep,i'm afraid after many weeks and months of defending ramos i'm starting to get pulled along with the tide of disgruntlement.things just aint right as many have pointed out,player positions,squad rotations,resting players when we have barely got started,standing there with arms folded looking on like a dear in the headlights when we concede,giving no directions to players as what to do,and so on and so on.also one of the more interesting things that amused me was when pav said a few weeks ago about how tired he was from all the fitness and weightlifting exercises,2 1/2 hours i think he said,surely when a team is low on confidence and are not gelling the best place for them would be on the training ground getting to know each others game,practicing set pieces,free kicks,shooting,not building up muscle for some imaginery weightlifting competition,i mean how unfit can a professional footballer that has spent most of their life eating right and exercising be that unfit in their twenties?more training sessions and less building muscle please mr ramos.on a funny note,the best quote i saw today was on spurs official match commentary that i watched-'and on 65 minutes zokora let fly from 25 yards-ball sailed into paxton road',lol,god help us.

Reply to MattYid:

Here's an idea... A bit radical I suppose but:

Why don't we pack the f**k out Stoke in a couple of weeks.. sing our bloody hearts out for the lads, the team we all love, show THEM that WE care, quit booing and all play our part in getting us out of this shit. I'm hurting, hurting like...

That's the spirit soldier!

There was progression today, of sorts. anyone who couldn't see that just doesn't want to see it. Slowly but surely, the players will grind out a few results, and the confidence will come back. 442 must be played, as we didn't look as disjointed as previous outings this season.

We need to get behind them, not boo the f@ck outta them.

you're encroaching upon bedtime sonny.

Fuck off to bed like a good lad and let the adults talk.

Reply to prakash daswani:

Agreed. Let's retain some perspective and give Juande and Gus the time they need (that said, after his role in the the departure of MJ and his decisions since, I reserve judgement on our current DoF). I should add, that, as a lifelong fan, (my 1st visit to the Lane was 41 years ago), I'm fairly...

Its a pleasure to see the passion and loyalty we deserve at OUR club

I was going to comment about Arshavin is a must buy in Jan, but your new thread H........... Get that fucking Comolli out!

to go down would be good for the experiance and make us stronger as a unit

Reply to MattYid:

Here's an idea... A bit radical I suppose but:

Why don't we pack the f**k out Stoke in a couple of weeks.. sing our bloody hearts out for the lads, the team we all love, show THEM that WE care, quit booing and all play our part in getting us out of this shit. I'm hurting, hurting like...

Agreed, we are cockrells we should be "Cooing" not "Booing". We need to show our guys that we will support them through thick and thin. What theyre going through is tough (irrespective of wage). Booing them will only serve to make thiongs worse.

Reply to MattYid:

Here's an idea... A bit radical I suppose but:

Why don't we pack the f**k out Stoke in a couple of weeks.. sing our bloody hearts out for the lads, the team we all love, show THEM that WE care, quit booing and all play our part in getting us out of this shit. I'm hurting, hurting like...

The crowd were totally behind the team today singing and cheering, so I don't know what you're on about.

Reply to onedavemackay:

Harry is right we all need to get real.

I was at the match and it was in the main a much better team performance. We had shape, players seemed to know what to do and there was an urgency about us. Several players played really well and even my personal whipping boy JJ grafted and fought...

I have actually spent some time reading through the comments on here thus far and ODMs makes the most sense to me.

Although i've almost become bored of watching us play because I virtually know for sure we wont score a goal, the teamwork and work-rate of all involved is commendable compared to the first games of the season.

JJ(who I still support regardless of his critics) was doing a bit of a Malbranque for me today in that whilst some of his final balls were pathetic and he gave the ball away cheaply on a couple of occasions he worked his arse off to get the ball back and i'm beginning to think that he is one of the best tacklers we have in the team at the moment.

The one thing (aside from our lack of finishing courtesy of Bent and Frazier) that does annoy me today is that Pav was forced to come off early because bearing in mind he has played only a handful of games he looks to have a killer instinct in front of goal and is will to shoot where others faff with the ball.

When and IF he gets going properly I do think he will be a very important played for Spurs.

BUT I truly don't quite understand Gus saying that him and Bent are too similar to play together...honestly? Does anyone else agree or I just being slow?

Reply to Winegum:

Reply to prakash daswani:

Agreed. Let's retain some perspective and give Juande and Gus the time they need (that said, after his role in the the departure of MJ and his decisions since, I reserve judgement on our current DoF). I should add, that, as a lifelong fan, (my 1st visit to the Lane was 41 years ago), I'm fairly...

Its a pleasure to see the passion and loyalty we deserve at OUR club

Well, that makes at least 2 of us, Winegum. I know there's tens of thousands of like-minded supporters of this great Club. I guess we'll all just have to cheer a bit louder from now on, if only to encourage the doubters. (East Stand Upper Block A, family section)

Reply to dizzy:

to go down would be good for the experiance and make us stronger as a unit

sorry Dizzy,going down is not an option,I was there in 77 when we were relegated despite the efforts of naylor mcallister and the deadly i.moores(for england).We got back up by the skin of our teeth by drawing 0-0 at Southampton last match of the season(packed out,couldn't get in,game relayed to us by a young lad looking at the match from a tree!)
Dodgy times my friend,but the next season-ardiles,ricky villa...ah bliss.maybe you're right....no you're not , don't get me started.

Today was probably our best performance this season. Corluka is proving to be more than capable at centre back and even Zakora put in a creditable performance. Hull defended deep and valiantly and in this respect deserved something from the game. Only a moment of brilliance from Giovanni bagged all three points.
However, our final ball into the box was awful, especially from corners, and we have three strikers who pretty much play the same game: running into space behind the back four onto through balls. None of them can effectively hold the ball up or run at defenders with the ball. There is no variation and for an opposing manager this is easy to counteract. Playing against a team defending as deeply as Hull Ramos had no options to play up front, thanks to the dealings of Levy and Comolli. A transfer policy of buying to fulfill the ambitions of a Plc rather than a football team has finally caught up with us. More than the extra £2m it would have taken to secure the services of Arshavin, more than the extra £5m we got for Berb.
Levy has lost sight of what really makes this club a desirable 'asset' and that's having a successful football team. In this respect I do not believe that he has the club's best interests at heart. Instead we sign young players with potential who retain their market value but collectively do not form the makings of a team. Boys to do the job of men.
If you're going to boo at the end of a match, direct it at the West Stand.

As I said on the other thread - I understand and appreciate the calmer people trying to keep us all level-headed about this. They're have been some brilliant posts along these lines. I hear the recourse to history that is pointing at Fergie's start at Man Utd. I completely and utterly agree that in my 20 years of supporting this club it has been nothing but restart after restart after restart and the continuation, season after season, of 'transition periods' that justify shit football and poor results. With a few periods of exception, this has been the Tottenham way in all my time of supporting them.

This said, and all taken into consideration, how long should we give Ramos? I would be happy to give him seasons if we were talking about a few seasons of mid-table mediocrity and the odd decent cup game. That's transition. But transition isn't the kind of craziness that's going on now. Patience doesn't mean sticking around at the bottom of the table until we're all but out of the hunt for safety and then we're all allowed to panic.

With the way football is today can we afford to get relegated? You can kiss goodbye to new ground plans if that were the case, and we'd all have to get used to a very different style of existence - they'd be no guarantees about coming back - ask Leeds.

So, all in balance. And a balancing thought to those point to Fergie and the need to get through the latest 'transition' phase. We're reaching a point, that will hit us some time in the next few months, where it's make or break. We're not so far off it, and as many have said, sometimes losing is such a habit that not even the greatest tactician could break it. Only a change and a shock works sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I want Ramos to work, badly. I pray he does. But... we can only cry 'patience!' for so long, not because we lack endurance or patience, but because the situation has become bloody serious. We're not far off it.

oh dear, some of you have been listening to russell grant and can tell the future. sounds a little too like the effluent of taurus for me. 7 games into the season and it's all over, what premature ejaculators you are. i'm for waiting 'till the fat lady sings, and if the ship goes down, you'll find me on the foc's'le alongside my squeaky spanish captain & his hamster singing; we are tottenham, we are tottenham super tottenham of the lane.........

Reply to corlukas-veruka:

Harry you seem to have a bit of brown on the end your nose and its not a freckle.

I'm so pleased that someone else other than me thinks that about Harry and some of his bum banging pals

AND ANOTHER THING.................ROB STILES


Unbelievably poor, including the free kick decision that led to their goal, but his performance drove my mate to shout " Hope you swallow your whistle and die Stiles". Ahhh bless

Reply to SE15YID:

Reply to corlukas-veruka:

Harry you seem to have a bit of brown on the end your nose and its not a freckle.

I'm so pleased that someone else other than me thinks that about Harry and some of his bum banging pals

Are you homophobic ?

I think we are all deluded if we think Ramos did a good job. We are blinded by the fact that we won the carling cup and scalping our neighbours 5-1 enroute. He has been below par IMHO. How many games have we won since then ? If you can count on just 1 hand, you know you are in trouble already. Why blame Connoli alone ? When he got Modric and Dos Santos, we were all smiles, werent we ? That they turned out to be a bit lightweight is neither here nor there. I think the manager is failing to bring out the best in the team and we have to accept that. Man to Man, we were better in every position against Hull. Then how did we lose it ? Its the collective spirit and the will to win. Something that has gone missing for a long time now.

can anyone give me a reply on my last post about how much body buiding and weightlifting other teams make their players do?i have this very disturbing image of our dressing room looking like the new sketch from little britain in america-you know-the one with the two body builders-except its bently and jenas.

Reply to tottenhamtony:

When Jol was axed he was still backed by 90% of Spurs fans and it was the boards decision to recruit Ramos. When he joined I thought within a few months we would be playing swift attacking football like Seville played - how wrong I was. Apart from the excellent Carling cup run and victory his year...

Did you see the game today?

Reply to SE15YID:

Reply to corlukas-veruka:

Harry you seem to have a bit of brown on the end your nose and its not a freckle.

I'm so pleased that someone else other than me thinks that about Harry and some of his bum banging pals

SE15 - you're a troll.

Congratulations on the promotion from 'unidentifiable stain'.

Reply to Discospurs:

As I said on the other thread - I understand and appreciate the calmer people trying to keep us all level-headed about this. They're have been some brilliant posts along these lines. I hear the recourse to history that is pointing at Fergie's start at Man Utd. I completely and utterly agree that in...

you put a good arguement in abalance manner.

My concern is that much of the panic amoungst our fans is with perspective given the summer transfer window and indeed who should take responsability for it.

Lets start by putting thing into perspective. Firstly Enic our beloved owners whilst being some of the richest owners in football lost £Billons in on the stock market which put them in a situation where they may wish to sell us. This in itself creates a lack of confidence in the club.

Secondly players leaving. Keane leaving was in NO way a decision by RAMOS. Whilst Keane gave us 6/7 great years he always supported liverpool and wanted to go there before the end of his career. I guess the club/owners/camolli wanted the monney.
Now with Keane leaving we would have hoped to keep Berb until Jan to get a replacement but united played dirty tricks and we(Camolli) accepted it for a price. One of these Should have been kept until a viable and capable replacement was found and bought.

Steed and co, well they were passionate but not of the level we were aspiring to become prior to the departure of Keane and Berb.

Now as for who came in well a couple of hopefulls. Were they enough.....I dont think Ramos, you, I or anyone in football believes so.

Who is responsable hmmmmm well under our system of management the Director of Football is responsable for Buying and selling of players not the head coach/manager.
No one has heard Commolli explaining what and why things happened in the summer? In most businesses this would be required!

So where do we go from here? Well Ramos has now effectively got a new team without all the necessary componants which he must deal with. If you look at his history there are very few better qualified people in the business than him, As someone pointed out Jol was in a similar position last year only he had Berb, Keane and Defoe.

Our team is in the storming phase (see my previous article) so will take time

bring back the witch-finder general and dust down the ducking stool. some of us are f*ckin' angry and wanna go on a witch-hunt. sadly we have'nt thought it through. is it levy's fault,comolli's or ramos'?. perhaps it's psb, the 'poisonous presence' or even s*l campbell, f*ck it let's string 'em all up. or perhaps we should call ambulance chasers r us, 'cos where there's blame there's a claim.
alternatively we could tough it out like grown-ups and support the team do or die. COYS COYS COYS

Reply to billybigspud:

bring back the witch-finder general and dust down the ducking stool. some of us are f*ckin' angry and wanna go on a witch-hunt. sadly we have'nt thought it through. is it levy's fault,comolli's or ramos'?. perhaps it's psb, the 'poisonous presence' or even s*l campbell, f*ck it let's string 'em all...

Amen

Reply to WhiteyThomson:

Reply to onedavemackay:

Harry is right we all need to get real.

I was at the match and it was in the main a much better team performance. We had shape, players seemed to know what to do and there was an urgency about us. Several players played really well and even my personal whipping boy JJ grafted and fought...

I have actually spent some time reading through the comments on here thus far and ODMs makes the most sense to me.

Although i've almost become bored of watching us play because I virtually know for sure we wont score a goal, the teamwork and work-rate of all involved is commendable...

What Gus is trying to say is that Bent will just get in the way and with only Pav on the pitch at least someone who can score will get the majority of the chances.

harry, why do you always put down BMJ. A manager that got us out of 14th place finishings to two 5th places and a lot of good cup runs, you must be mad to go along with what we've got now. It's no coincidence that when that nob from ar5na1 took the job it went down hill from there, and it's obvious there is something seriously wrong going on at the lane. If ramos has got more tactical awareness than jol, where is it? you live in a dreamland sunshine along wwith the spurs directors. Wake up and smell the coffee cos if something isn't done soon(and i don't mean sack the manager) we're gong down and we'll be like the spanners!

Reply to flps:

harry, why do you always put down BMJ. A manager that got us out of 14th place finishings to two 5th places and a lot of good cup runs, you must be mad to go along with what we've got now. It's no coincidence that when that nob from ar5na1 took the job it went down hill from there, and it's...

Lets not forget that Ramso has had the rug pulled from under him by Commolli by selling half the team to make money due to Enic financial situation

2 points from 21 says it all and add to it that we are blessed to be still in europe!Who is to blame,who knows....if Ramos sanctioned all purchases then it ultimatly lies with him.I doubt he did though which is even more alarming...we need an Alex Ferguson who buys who he wants,when he wants and will do anything to get 'em not a Levy/Comolli(who to blame)??? who are trying to get the best deal based on finances alone...get rid of Comolli but dont replace him, that system just dont work in the prem. At least if the manager is the only one buying players then everyone knows where the blames lies. Today was better in terms of effort but thats where it ends,we still look dodgy and shockingly lacking in confidence at the back mainly due to lack of protection from midfield. Lennon continues to fail to produce where it matters- a quality final ball....playing Bentley at right full???? still his delivery has improved....Bent-just not good enough....Campbell- just not good enough yet(will he ever???) Modric...so far an enigma and so many poor passes today, though if he got a goal I feel he may just settle??
Zokora,not his greatest fan but he gave it all just stop trying to score man...as for jenas,tried hard but like bent not good enough and never will be except for the odd good game in every 10
Rant nearly over....sack Ramos?? and replace him with who?? (Roy the boy Keane??? anyone) Priorities must lie in establishing the fuck up of the summer transfer dealings...namely who was to blame ? Comolli or Levy or both?? and rid the rat from the already fast sinking ship b4 it gets too late or is it already too late....I hope not .COYS COYS COYS

Sports Science and Medicine: team
A social unit that has a relatively rigid structure, organization and communication pattern. The task of each member of a team is usually well defined, and the successful functioning of the team depends on the coordinated participation of all or several members of the team. Typically, the development of a team takes place in four stages: forming (members familiarize themselves with each other and start to form interpersonal relationships); storming (characterized by rebellion against the leader and interpersonal conflict); norming (during which hostility is replaced by cooperation with team members striving for economy of effort and task effectiveness); and performing (during which team members clarify roles and channel energies to achieve team success).


We were in the advanced-norming stage at they end of last year. And are now back at the behind teh starting line: not even reached the forming stage yet.

Backwards most certainly is not forwards. The coach is in charge. The coach must take the blame: he has the most influence on team affairs.

Support your team! What team? This is a collection of wannabe superheroes, better at politics than the gems who left: Stalteri, Ghaly, Lee, Mido, Malb, Tainio, Zomora, Defoe, Keller and Robbie (OK he was under no pressure to leave - that should tell you sth) - all gems, all gone. And look what we are left with: Modric!

The supportetrs would rather stand by a player who they know nothing about than get behind great players who come, amke a differnece and then go cause they get hounded out. They are more anti-SPurs fans at this club than real football fans.

Spurs are dead. I'll be back when all the wannabe superheroes are gone. Or have grown up.

harry, you asshole. get off your high horse. spurs are shit---levy, commoli, ramos all need to be lined up and shot. mismanagement from top to bottom. everyone needs to loudly boo those fuckers every game. if your manager stinks and your players play like shit BOO the fuckers all day

Hull!!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

Reply to denver dave:

harry, you asshole. get off your high horse. spurs are shit---levy, commoli, ramos all need to be lined up and shot. mismanagement from top to bottom. everyone needs to loudly boo those fuckers every game. if your manager stinks and your players play like shit BOO the fuckers all day

How many matches have you seen this season ?

Reply to philbob88:

Hull!!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

We're only here to entertain

Reply to denver dave:

harry, you asshole. get off your high horse. spurs are shit---levy, commoli, ramos all need to be lined up and shot. mismanagement from top to bottom. everyone needs to loudly boo those fuckers every game. if your manager stinks and your players play like shit BOO the fuckers all day

Remarkable insights.

Now really impress me and offer a solution.

Pointing out problems is a start, but I cannot score you for identifying the obvious.

Oh and you advocate booing the fuckers all day.
Would you describe yourself as a big fan, 'dave'?

Or just a big hard man?

Actually, rereading your comment, who gives a solitary f*ck what more you might have to add.

I suggest we play my XI for the next pramiership game please.

Made a lot of good chances last day

Firstly,the language used by some contributors is appalling and it will not help matters.
Secondly, Ramos should not be replaced at present and
Thirdly, We will simply have to knuckle down and work with what we have.We can add to the squad in January. I think we will have pulled ourselves round by then.

Reply to HarryHotspur:

Reply to denver dave:

harry, you asshole. get off your high horse. spurs are shit---levy, commoli, ramos all need to be lined up and shot. mismanagement from top to bottom. everyone needs to loudly boo those fuckers every game. if your manager stinks and your players play like shit BOO the fuckers all day

Remarkable insights.

Now really impress me and offer a solution.

Pointing out problems is a start, but I cannot score you for identifying the obvious.

Oh and you advocate booing the fuckers all day.
Would you describe yourself as a big fan,...

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! What a load of rubbish!! BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! Let the lousy scumbags hear it! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

"Each season, there is a team that goes into freefall and gets sucked into the relegation scrap. losing becomes a habit, like winning and if we ain't careful, that team could be us." Dannyboy

Christ.

Reply to shanemac:

"Each season, there is a team that goes into freefall and gets sucked into the relegation scrap. losing becomes a habit, like winning and if we ain't careful, that team could be us." Dannyboy

Christ.

This a job for Ironside, no matter what Hoddle thinks or his handicap.

Reply to Jeff:

Firstly,the language used by some contributors is appalling and it will not help matters.
Secondly, Ramos should not be replaced at present and
Thirdly, We will simply have to knuckle down and work with what we have.We can add to the squad in January. I think we will have pulled...

fuck off jeff

appalling language? go on Spurs Oderous, then if want to chat up choir boys!

Reply to denver dave:

Reply to HarryHotspur:

Reply to denver dave:

harry, you asshole. get off your high horse. spurs are shit---levy, commoli, ramos all need to be lined up and shot. mismanagement from top to bottom. everyone needs to loudly boo those fuckers every game. if your manager stinks and your players play like shit BOO the fuckers all day

Remarkable insights.

Now really impress me and offer a solution.

Pointing out problems is a start, but I cannot score you for identifying the obvious.

Oh and you advocate booing the fuckers all day.
Would you describe yourself as a big fan,...

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! What a load of rubbish!! BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! Let the lousy scumbags hear it! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

Denver Dave: Er, "the lousy scumbags", "those fuckers"? With support like that, who needs enemies; If you are indeed a supporter, it's in part the 'vocal moronity' (like you) that got us into this position (prompting panic ridden scape-goat seeking knee-jerk reactions) and I sincerely hope the club resists pandering to clueless no-marks this time round.