The Vulgarities Of Money

Even though it's written by a scouser, what a fantastic read. It takes me back to the glorious 80's, standing on 'The Shelf' for about £1.80. Unfortunately those days are gone forever, no matter how loud anyone complains. It's all about supply and demand and while stadiums get filled week in week out, why would the greedy bastard clubs change it?

100 quid a game for me and my son, for say 30 games if we have a good season, that's 3 grand. What's the national average wage? 25 grand? Football is massively over priced and run by greedy money grabbing lecherous bastards, encouraged by sponsorship, live TV rights blah blah blah. Makes you sick the more you think about it.

(I hope the scousers mum was ok).

Enlightening that the same thing is happening all round the country.
"When did it become an honour for us to see our players rather than it being an honour for them playing in front of their fans?" Indeed! It would be interesting to know exactly what percentage of revenue are from fan streams (i.e. season tickets, membership, short, sales, hot dogs and beer etc) and how much from corporate streams (TV revenue, sponsorship deals etc). My guess is that us fans are lower down on the list than we expect.

What's the solution? We do have the best league in the world in terms of big names and quality of sides. I suppose we could put up with this if only the players actually gave a toss and worked their arse off for the cause. If they don't then why have we just spent our hard earned cash to buy a ticket, another replica shirt, a subsciption to sky/setanta etc? Its like being conned. Thats how I felt every time Berbatoss threw his arms up in the air and sulked. Its what I feel when the players who represent more than just a pastime, don't turn up and whats worse... in the interviews don't seem to notice that they've not bothered. England is a prime case in point. Spurs I hope, will be much less like this - I wouldn't know what to do otherwise. I already watch a spot of Bundesliga, but the commentators aren't the same and I'm not actually benefitting from the cheaper seats, steins of bier and bratwurst.

Here Here big lad, and armchair fans get criticised. What else can we do? two games a year, tops, and it'll be lucky to be that this year.
But still, where would we be without it??

short shirts on sale? sorry 'short, sales' was meant to be 'shirt sales'

truly superb article, and ashameadly true aswell.

Fantastic read that is. It breaks my heart that now i live in Lincoln im restricted to only seeing Spurs when they play in the midlands. The Lane is simply out of my meagre student capabilities. To buy a season ticket and travel to London and back and eat would cost me a couple of hundred pounds shy of my ANNUAL income. Now being a student my income is of course low, but still, what am i to do? Instead i make do with TV and the odd away games. In the mean time i settle for Lincoln in League Two. However even this is getting money silly, Lincoln now charge £15 for a ticket, in a half empty stadium, in a fourth tier league WITH a student discount!!! Yet in Germany i could watch the cream of the league playing in an inevitably packed stadium for under a tenner. What is the world coming to?

Holy Shit. That was brilliant.

too right Harry

footballs becoming a sick joke financially. I used to pay a fiver and stand on the shelf, watching entertaining football with an awesome atmosphere.

Those days a gone, but surely there's a way we can bring back some lower priced tickets.A standing area for £15 at WHL wouldn't go amiss.

The players earn a disgraceful amount. They should run through walls for that money, not skulk about aiming for higher salaries season on season.

We all love following our teams, but in our heart of hearts we know its a farce these days...

Unfortunately, it is too late.

Reply to Jim:

Unfortunately, it is too late.

Superb. Thanks for sharing that H.

It loses something when you consider his club are one of the beneficiaries of the influx of money, and use it to their advantage in illegally tapping up players like Robbie Keane.

it could have been written by any fan of any club, weve all travelled weve all done things to go and see our beloved team weve all had heart break, this country is obsesed with money people dont care who they tred on to make it? we have not been trod on weve beeen stamped on? the puddlers talk of hillsboro but who remembers wolves @ hillsboro lucky for us there were no cages around the ground i remember more and more spilled on to the pitch if the cages were up liverpool would have been known as the 2nd hillsboro i also remember trying to get out of highbury one year, they had one exit open i remember climbing over people just to get on to the pitch! no body cares about fan's? how many times have we tried to get in touch with someone at spurs to find out what's going on with the club? no one want's to talk to us they dont care about us! we will never get into the champions league cause money talks with us? modric, dos santos & pava if they all have wonder seasons will they still be hear next season??? no, were only interested in money the only people to really care about this club are the one's who get ripped off

Great post, so true. What is the answer though? Maybe limiting the number of foreigners in each team will help, but I fear this will only artificially infate shit British players values to other teams?

that's such a disheartening post...

whoever it was that said that fan revenue comes low on the list of received finances from the club was spot on... even if we sold 30000 tickets at £40 every on of the 19 home games that is only 1.2 million... dwarfed by advetising, player sales, tv money, sponsorship, prize money (if in europe, or in cups)... the receipts from a home game dont even cover our squads weekly wage i bet. Clubs have long since moved on from this being a crucial stream of revenue.

what galls most is our releasing a new kit every season now, well three, and not at reduced prices. We can also only imagine how much cash we get from endorsements and worl wide marketing too.

The truth is that our club, like all others is now further out of touch with us than we like to admit. that isn't to say that we are the worst for it...

you only have to look at a manure or chelski game on tv to see the amount of tourists in the crowd- not a racist statement, more an indication that at todays prices true fans that would never have missed a game are now being priced out.

My final point in this polemic relates to govt policy on televised saturday matches... traditionally these are illegal to broadcast live on a 3.00 kick off to protect attendances (i believe). Its about time this was revoked really, we might as well have the chance to see the games properly if we cant afford to go regularly... but then if public broadcasting cared about things like that then we wouldn't have allowed all of our best sports to go to pay tv in the first place... next summer, for example, a home ashes series will be shown on sattelite tv for the first time, meaning that (even if the sport made short term cash by selling rights to sky) cricket cannot hope to gain anywhere near the same uplift of interest as they did last time, even if we won five nil...

What a top read, big up yourself H for finding it and posting.
The thing is what's going to happen with Citeh now in the money and there will probably be others (Dubai, Mital etc). Why would any of the top players go to Citeh? Money, they'll start throwing more and cash to get players to come forcing wages up. How long before the first £250k pw player? £500k pw?
How can the average person relate to these people? At some point in the future I can see the EPL totally destroying football in this country!

This article encapsulates everything that was great about football and highlights everything that is wrong with state of it today. I remember as a boy standing on the shelf singing my heart out, dancing when we scored, in love with my team. My brother took me to see the team train at cheshunt and i walked up to every player and got there autograph, with unlimited access to the players.
i now have two boys and to take then costs 150quid on tickets alone and we sit in a ground with little atmosphere and watch players who don't want to play for my beloved club and with a new striker on loan who doesn't really want to be there let alone play is heart out. whatever people say about players in the 70s and 80s and we had some shocking players, but they would have run through walls for Spurs.

Reply to theoriginaldannyboy:

Even though it's written by a scouser, what a fantastic read. It takes me back to the glorious 80's, standing on 'The Shelf' for about £1.80. Unfortunately those days are gone forever, no matter how loud anyone complains. It's all about supply and demand and while stadiums get filled week in week...

Dannyboy..how's things??

it's a sad situation alright.. i only get over to the Lane twice or three times a year so as such i don't mind paying the going rate including ticket prices, flights & hotel.. but i dread to think what it would be like to have to go every week..

having said that i would love to watch Spurs play every week in the flesh.. in that regard you guys have it lucky.. is it worth it though?? only you guys can answer that.. i'd imagine no..

Well done Harold and well said that Scouser.

Of course the people who are least considered are the fans. Players wages are ludicrous. I seem to remember Ian Walker as our reserve keeper earning a million a year THEN.

Nearly all clubs could charge less but of course the owners are far too greedy and don't care anyway . But the real reason they charge a fortune is simple :

They do it because they can.

Most matches at the lane were sold out long before Jol's arrival and remember how awful we were.

Reply to Bimmi:

Reply to theoriginaldannyboy:

Even though it's written by a scouser, what a fantastic read. It takes me back to the glorious 80's, standing on 'The Shelf' for about £1.80. Unfortunately those days are gone forever, no matter how loud anyone complains. It's all about supply and demand and while stadiums get filled week in week...

Dannyboy..how's things??

it's a sad situation alright.. i only get over to the Lane twice or three times a year so as such i don't mind paying the going rate including ticket prices, flights & hotel.. but i dread to think what it would be like to have to go every week..
...

Is it worth it ?

You can't relate value for money to supporting a football team.


It's part of my life just like my left foot and the air I breathe

Reply to onedavemackay:

Reply to Bimmi:

Reply to theoriginaldannyboy:

Even though it's written by a scouser, what a fantastic read. It takes me back to the glorious 80's, standing on 'The Shelf' for about £1.80. Unfortunately those days are gone forever, no matter how loud anyone complains. It's all about supply and demand and while stadiums get filled week in week...

Dannyboy..how's things??

it's a sad situation alright.. i only get over to the Lane twice or three times a year so as such i don't mind paying the going rate including ticket prices, flights & hotel.. but i dread to think what it would be like to have to go every week..
...

Is it worth it ?

You can't relate value for money to supporting a football team.


It's part of my life just like my left foot and the air I breathe

well said..

I've said it here before many times: SALARY CAP.
Usually I get replies like "none of that Yankee shit here" etc..Firstly, I'm a used-to-be season ticket holder that relocated to the U.S. a while ago. Most major sports here are regulated by spending limits. The MAIN effect of that is that the same teams DO NOT win the championships year after year after year. It's time European football followed suit..

This article was posted at 7.33pm and at 11pm there were 21 posts in response. Check this against the number and speed of posts during the big money transfer hysteria of a week ago.

What's going on in football is representative of the current world system. The market is no longer a tool, it's a governing principal; you either play along and stick with it at all costs or fall by the wayside.

The driving force behind the premierleague is big business not a social enterprise scheme.

It's only going to go one way.

Great article, thanks for posting. I've been following this blog for a while now and only now wanted to write something. I suppose I've got two points I'd like to make.

Firstly, is it too strong to call football immoral these days? I understand the nature of a free market economy, I also understand the fact that those governing football operate on the basis of what they *can* do and not what they *should* do. But where do we draw the line, and where does this exponential increase cross a line that essentially involves the supporters involved whoring themselves out to the whims of the fat cat fantasy football managers that are the international chairmen? I find it hard to stay passionate about a sport that throws money after whim when lives are lost and destroyed for the lack of it. It's hard to keep passionate about something that feels so immoral.

To add to the cost of tickets rising above the roof, don't forget that with football now split across Sentana and Sky Sports, even the armchair supporter has to purchase two subscriptions to see the same amount of games he was last season. What's going on there? As for the Ashes - I *think* they may be protected, though I'm not sure. They damn well ought to be.

Lastly, a balancing point. To all those who recall the golden times, can you honestly say football *was* in a better state before, genuinely, or is it a simple case of change. I'm genuinely interested because I know as we all get older it's easy to look back on the past and remember it as a golden era. The trick is to compare it to now and say which is better and why, and to try and remove the nostalgia lenses (hard to do I know). This is a worthwhile debate, and one about which I knew what to say and how to act to get the voice of worried fans to the people who can make changes.

"the people who can make changes"?

Who dat?

The monopolies commission?

Reply to el:

This article was posted at 7.33pm and at 11pm there were 21 posts in response. Check this against the number and speed of posts during the big money transfer hysteria of a week ago.

What's going on in football is representative of the current world system. The market is no...

And of the 21 none asking when Veloso was signing.

I really got the impression from a lot of the abysmal contributions not just here but on other web platforms during the transfer window that some where just wanting players like some unreal version of Top Trumps.

I am against elitism or tiering of fans. But there just appears to me to be a lot of no marks floating around these days.

Maybe the policemen are getting younger too, but the Pot Noodle approach you hint to there el is to me here already.

The gulf between the Acadamy and the First squad? Try measuring the gulf between the bench and the first squad. Try then counting the number of our first squad before the window that would 'walk' into a genuine top four team.

It's upon us and among the first to experience it were Chelsea. Instant success. Just add billionaire. Sure the wheels have come off a bit now but they had a hell of a ride and look at what they became.

A global brand.

'Where were you when you were shit?'

Answer, shopping elsewhere. Quite possibly not even buying football from a different provider.

A version of that song to me could be played over the tannoy in Debenhams.

'Where you were you midweek when we didn't have a blue cross sale on?'

The seats are now sold to 'clients'.

We're all going to hell in a handcart.

Whens Hunlearargh signing? (sic)

Reply to Discospurs:

Great article, thanks for posting. I've been following this blog for a while now and only now wanted to write something. I suppose I've got two points I'd like to make.

Firstly, is it too strong to call football immoral these days? I understand the nature of a free market economy, I...

I'll flush all of you bastards out eventually.



Welcome.

Reply to el:

"the people who can make changes"?

Who dat?

The monopolies commission?

El - why is there only one monopolies and mergers commission?

Reply to HarryHotspur:

Reply to el:

This article was posted at 7.33pm and at 11pm there were 21 posts in response. Check this against the number and speed of posts during the big money transfer hysteria of a week ago.

What's going on in football is representative of the current world system. The market is no...

And of the 21 none asking when Veloso was signing.

I really got the impression from a lot of the abysmal contributions not just here but on other web platforms during the transfer window that some where just wanting players like some unreal version of Top Trumps.

I am...

I've always thought that to the "real" fan the failure is almost as important as the success. I am the son of a Tottenham fan, so I really have been one since before I was born. But I used to know a Brentford supporter and there was almost something I envied about him.



Then again my Dad died the night before the '91 semi against the Arse and as the final whistle blew I tried to say "they did it for my Dad " but I couldn't say the words through the tears.

Reply to theoriginaldannyboy:

Even though it's written by a scouser, what a fantastic read. It takes me back to the glorious 80's, standing on 'The Shelf' for about £1.80. Unfortunately those days are gone forever, no matter how loud anyone complains. It's all about supply and demand and while stadiums get filled week in week...

Nice post Dannyboy. Well said you.

The thing to do is what has always worked, organise ourselves and boycott games, the various club trusts should then make demands of clubs to lower entry prices...

and salary caps dont work cos then the money just goes to the directors/shareholders, salary cpas only work if hand in hand with entry prices being lowered dramatically, then of course we'll all still be demanding that we buy the best in the world in transfer windows lol

I am now living in Bangkok Thailand. I now get to see every EPL game live on tv, the 3pm games start at 8pm so i sit in a bar with 4-5 games playing at the same time.

Ive also been living abroad for 15 years (7 in Bangkok), and i prefer to watch on TV as my eyes dont cut it anymore on a pitch lol

i think the fact that there are only 30 odd contributors on this fantastic blog speaks volumes about what it is the modern fan is willing to put up with and willing to accept. It looks as though that the low volume of contributors means that the modern fan has slowly been mindfucked to the point where the religion that is spurs equals the religion of paying to see Spurs.

I too can equate many stories about driving from Cardiff to London as a kid with my dad going to highbury to watch Spurs play the dreaded goons and then also doing the same thing for the return at WHL. How much did that equate to relative to today, i would guess a lot less but just remember at least the clubs cant take our memories and charge for them.

problem is how do we keep those good times going in the future for the future yiddos...i would say thats an impossible dream.

The line that the thieving scouser poster said that most summed this up was "When did it become an honour for us to see our players rather than it being an honour for them playing in front of their fans?" Never a truer word was spoken, even if it was probably pinched by this thieving scouser...

COYS for life!

It is called Economics. Supply and demand.

thats right SB, so to fix the imbalance remove demand

Remove demand? Boycott the club? Are you mad?

Like it or not we are competing in a big boys league. Like was said before our contribution is less % £revenue to the business, but more lifeblood to the club we've supported for eons. There are certain things the club can do to make our lives easier, perhaps reduce ticket prices a little, reduce replica shirt prices, reduce hot dog prices, but we need this deficit to be addressed elsewhere. Chatting with a Villa bloke on Harry's bar and asking how they are managing without the big money shirt sponsor - seems they're doing ok and balancing the books. But that money has to be coming somewhere.

As a fan, our lot is not easy, although we may be comparatively better off than other clubs. Our club is flourishing because we have loyal fans, the packed 36k stadium has the best atmosphere. If true fans were to boycott the games, all that would happen is that the atmosphere would be less boisterous, but we'd still sell out - because the demand to see a PL big boy is there.

Back to the competition - we still desperately want to achieve CL status. We still want a new larger state-of-the-art stadium. This is going to cost. THFC the business is doing exactly what it needs to get to that stage - which as fans we're contributing to partly because as fans we have to, and partly because we're buying into the marketing of a good business. "I need that new 3rd shirt with Giovanni on it".

What I'd like to see is
1. Us get into CL. Theres a revenue stream boost straight away from competition money and more TV and more advertsising/sponsorship revenues.
2. Build a larger better stadium. Although this will cost, we can recoup some of the payment through stadium naming rights, and sponsorship and branding. However more seats, could mean slightly lower average ticket prices.

In truth I can't see us getting a better deal unless these two things happen. We want to be entertained, but we also want to be able to afford it.

I've never been to England, or even the Eastern Hemisphere, but I fully agree about rising ticket prices.

I live in Cleveland Ohio, and my favorite baseball team the Cleveland Indians do the exact same bullshit as Spurs do.

This year, we started charging a few dollars more per ticket for big teams such as Boston and New York, and frankly I fucking hate it.

Not only have we not won anything since 1948, but we have the balls to charge more money to fans who have suffered more heartbreak than any other US city.

I've been a Spurs fan for awhile now and agree with all of you guys that football and other sports are becoming more and more money driven, which makes the owners lose sight of the real reason these games should be played, for us, the fans.

Coys.

There is only ODM.

Starting to get off the point i think!

Great article, maybe we cant change it does not mean we have to like it!

Ive just had a son and i have to now become one of the armchair masses. I just hope when my son is old enough to love Spurs like i do ill be able to show him my club without having to remortgage. :-)

COYS!!

Tremendous article, I think that these articles bring supporters alike closer together.

The once beautiful game is now an ugly beast.

what a brilliant piece just read it on waking up.don't know if i will regret saying this but at the present time i'd rather we were playing in a real good ol honest league like the championship than the premiere. Back to grass roots, back to a more level playing field.Back to youth policy being priority and back to sensible entrance fees.

Reply to cb:

Tremendous article, I think that these articles bring supporters alike closer together.

The once beautiful game is now an ugly beast.

Depends which side of it you're looking at.

Rather more of a high-maintenance lass than girl-next-door these days, but far from ugly

I too feel that football nowadays is a bubble about to burst,
I will not go to games because as someone said to me I love football too much to give money to those wankers,
I have known Spurs players over the years, and feel that Ramos and Comolli were brilliant at getting someone to pay for those bastards (keane, berb, robinson and defoe).
Even if we signed Lincoln team we could not be worst than last year.

Going back to the article I remember going to reserve games at the lane for free and you would see players coming back from injury.

Levy is a good man who has to deal with a lot of arseholes, and if you are investing millions then it is a business, I remember in the 80s clubs announced what crowd they required to break even (spurs 26,000) this was not achieved for a few games and this was for hoddle etc.
I hope spurs are still going in a few years unless clubs sell out and rename themselves and move{ market forces etc} as there might be judged to be too many clubs in london.

Aside: Gus what are you doing meeting with the cartoon army? Please tell us, its because you want to tell then to 'jog on' to their faces.

Morning all,

HH that was indeed a top read and I was most impressed by what the scouser had to say. Obviously for me, living in Glasgow has made it nigh on impossible to get down to the lane. I'd have to save for a while to be able to afford the flights, tickets and accomodation just to go and watch them. For me the internet (SOPCAST) and SKY are the only means I have to watch my beloved Spurs. Thankfully, absence makes the heart grow fonder and since I've moved to Glasgow I have become a more avid fan as I have to fight my corner when the 'OLD FIRM' debate crops up (YOU KNOW CELTIC FANS STILL RECKON THEY'RE BETTER THAN SPURS!)

On another note............... Harry, Is it true that Poyet met with the 'car'toon army yesterday? Surely thats 'tapping up'? Unless Spurs gave him permission to talk to them, which I really hope they haven't. IMO Gus needs to be retained as he is good for morale and I'm sure will prove himself to be an excellent no2 in the years to come. If he moves to Toon then he'll get 6months top then he'll get sacked when Ashley sells the club.

Gus, ignore that poison dwarf Wise and dont take the doomed seat at St James'. You're a YID and you know you are!!

"Is it true that Poyet met with the 'car'toon army yesterday? Surely thats 'tapping up'? Unless Spurs gave him permission to talk to them, which I really hope they haven't. IMO Gus needs to be retained as..."


Hello mate, I have no idea. What suggests to you he did?

I hope you haven't neen taking The Sun as gospel???

Reply to Trembly:

Aside: Gus what are you doing meeting with the cartoon army? Please tell us, its because you want to tell then to 'jog on' to their faces.

Source????

Regarding Gus, I think you'll find people are making gross assumptions regarding the relationship between Gus and Pikey Wise. Wise is very unpopular with the Toon army so appointing anyone closely associated with him is not too smart a move.



Mind you, it was reported in the Sun.

Reply to Trembly:

Aside: Gus what are you doing meeting with the cartoon army? Please tell us, its because you want to tell then to 'jog on' to their faces.

This is rubbish

LINK

Reply to onedavemackay:

Regarding Gus, I think you'll find people are making gross assumptions regarding the relationship between Gus and Pikey Wise. Wise is very unpopular with the Toon army so appointing anyone closely associated with him is not too smart a move.



Mind you, it was reported in...

Also, CaveIn's backroom staff, minus Pictionary have all gone.

Poyet, Wise & Penfold?

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.

Reply to HarryHotspur:

"Is it true that Poyet met with the 'car'toon army yesterday? Surely thats 'tapping up'? Unless Spurs gave him permission to talk to them, which I really hope they haven't. IMO Gus needs to be retained as..."


Hello mate, I have no idea. What suggests to you he did? ...

It was more to do with the stories being run by the 'Sunderland Chronicle' I assumed 'asumption being the mother of all f*ck up's' that a local paper up north may have more of an inside track on the story.

I am also preturbed by the lack of a statement from Gus Poyet telling Newcastle to 'do one'

If the story was originally from The SUN then I take back my initial worry and will await a statement from Gus Poyet, hopefully informing everyone that he intends to stay at Spurs.

Who'd want the newcastle job anyways???

Reply to HarryHotspur:

Reply to Trembly:

Aside: Gus what are you doing meeting with the cartoon army? Please tell us, its because you want to tell then to 'jog on' to their faces.

Source????

Sorry I hope I'm jumping the gun a bit here. Just that turning on the internet, the rumour lists (all admittedly pointing to the current bun) and the talksport boys seemingly jumping on this bandwagon. All rumour and conjecture probably, but it did get me worked up first thing given that theres still bugger all in the way of word straight from the horses.

This off a Toon board about GP:

"Dont want anything to bloody do with him. Unproven and a friend of Dennis Wise. Enough said.

f*** thinking about a new manager, I dont care about this season, I care about the future of the club and getting Mike Ashley the f*** out of toon."

Reply to Trembly:

Reply to HarryHotspur:

Reply to Trembly:

Aside: Gus what are you doing meeting with the cartoon army? Please tell us, its because you want to tell then to 'jog on' to their faces.

Source????

Sorry I hope I'm jumping the gun a bit here. Just that turning on the internet, the rumour lists (all admittedly pointing to the current bun) and the talksport boys seemingly jumping on this bandwagon. All rumour and conjecture probably, but it did get me worked up first thing given that theres...

Wasn't having a dig, kust thought I'd missed something!

Reply to HarryHotspur:

Reply to Trembly:

Reply to HarryHotspur:

Reply to Trembly:

Aside: Gus what are you doing meeting with the cartoon army? Please tell us, its because you want to tell then to 'jog on' to their faces.

Source????

Sorry I hope I'm jumping the gun a bit here. Just that turning on the internet, the rumour lists (all admittedly pointing to the current bun) and the talksport boys seemingly jumping on this bandwagon. All rumour and conjecture probably, but it did get me worked up first thing given that theres...

Wasn't having a dig, kust thought I'd missed something!

Kust? 'Just' even.

See in times of trouble and sadness I always cheer myself up by chanting the mantra "it could be worse I could be a toon fan, it could be worse I could be a toon fan" I chant this about 5 times and I'm instantly cheered up!

Sadly I don't think much will change. I went to my first game in 1987 for my 10th birthday and it was pretty expensive then for me, my mate and my Dad to get the train up from the West Country and get tickets to the game.

Now, I know this will never happen but I have long harboured a theory as to how to bring about an attitude change in footballers. I don't think we'll ever be able to remove the vast wages paid but how about changing the structure. Pay them the national minimum wage as their basic pay. This would have the effect (hopefully) of making players empathise more with the fans. Then pay their ridiculous wages through the bonus system - thereby if they're not motivated to play for the badge, perhaps they'll "run through walls" for the money. As I said, I know it'll never happen, but think it would be the only solution that appeases fans and keeps the players on the exorbitant wages they enjoy.

As I've posted on here before, I don't get to the Lane very often, largely due to how hard it is to get tickets and the cost of travelling up from Bristol on my meagre salary, but do get there when I can. Bristol City this year opened up the old East End - leaflets handed out at the first game saying that the philosophy was to get behind the team, sing throughout the game, not get on players backs etc. - the atmosphere is great, and the cost? £275 - or less than £12/game to watch a pretty good standard of football. Everyone stands up throughout so very much like an old school terrace - wouldn't it be great if more clubs did this? Somebody above mentioned reintroducing a terrace at £15 and I for one think it would go some way to getting a bit of the passion back into the Premiership......

Keep up the good work fellas. COYS!

Another thing that may cheer us up on this boring international week>>>>>>>>>

LINK

Oh how I'm laughing! Its just a shame all they nicked was a watch. Don't worry Bob once you get your own house they'll be round for the rest of your stuff! lol

Mornin all, fingers crossed this Gus story is just that! Can't see it as a sensible move, but then he goes there wins a few on the bounce & they'll soon forget about King Kurly Perm!
If he did leave any suggestions as to who'd replace him (ex spurs who speak Spanish..... Ossie!)

Reply to jamiespurs:

Another thing that may cheer us up on this boring international week>>>>>>>>>

LINK

Oh how I'm laughing! Its just a shame all they nicked was a watch. Don't worry Bob once you get your own house they'll be round for...

Good!

Levy wont let Gus go! Who will do the post-match interview, lol. Can anybody else on the coaching staff speak pigeon english?

Good piece. It's sad, but football for the proper fan has been in steady decline since the seats went in.

I'm not pointing fingers here (unlike the scousers latest signing), but the Hillsborough tragedy, whether avoidable or not, was the beginning of an altogether more sanitised football.

Of course, the safety of fans is the number one priority in any changes to stadium design, but I believe the Taylor report was seen by some as an opportunity to rid the game of, in their eyes, an undesirable element and to fill their pockets further.

A few here have mentioned standing on the shelf, I also remember it and although great, times have changed. I think we'd all agree that today it's not acceptable to take a piss on the stands.

I'm pretty sure it's too late, but perhaps to put in safer terraced areas could be some kind of compromise.

As for Poyet hooking up with the malevolent little goblin, perhaps another example of greed if he does go? Can't think of why else he'd go there.

I love Spurs with all my heart, I really do, and I love nothing more than going to The Lane and immersing myself in it all with tens of thousands of other Yids but I haven't been down since Jolly's first game (yip, the 4-5 game) because it cost me over £100 to get to the game from Bristol and get in. Silly money.

Zico Says He'd Like It


Brazil legend Zico has revealed he would be interested in succeeding Kevin Keegan as Newcastle United manager.

The Magpies are currently on the look out for a new man to take charge of first-team affairs following Keegan's shock resignation last week.

A number of big names have been linked with the St James' Park hot-seat and now former Japan and Fenerbahce boss Zico has joined that list.

One of the alleged reasons behind Keegan's departure was the club's use of a director of football but Zico, who made 88 appearances for Brazil, has no qualms with the North East side's internal structure.

"The Newcastle job is one that I would be very interested in taking. It would be a privilege and an honour," he told the Daily Mail.

"I've always wanted to experience the Premier League as I believe I could enjoy much success coaching in England.

"I am used to working alongside technical directors so this isn't an issue for me. It's normal for me to work in those conditions."

"It's normal for me to work in those conditions."

Has anyone told Zico that its grim up north??

I should know, its not even october and I'm getting a scarf for the mornings!

You all act like you can't go and watch football for cheap in the UK? Unfortunately the fact that Tottenham is one of the most successful clubs in the world situated in an extremely affluent area means that our ticket prices along with everything else have gone up because there are so many of us yids about. You can all go and watch every game of a League 1 or 2 side every week for a fiver if you want, but I'd rather catch one or two spurs games a year instead.

And as for ticket sales dwarfing other incomes - absolute rubbish. 30,000 tickets a week for 19 home games is almost £23 million for a season. Yes, it's still less than Berbatov went for, but don't let the over-inflated value of some players like dimitar and robbie skew the facts. Wasn't our mansion sponsorship deal worth £40 million over 5 years one of the biggest ever? Didn't the entire premiership spending this summer total about £300 million? Tell you what - lets only charge £5 for each ticket: a measly 150k per week, or £2.85 million per year. Not sure if we could have bought 12 international players in the last 12 months on that gate income.

I'm not saying that I think the players all deserve their extortionate pay packets, and that its justified to charge the amount clubs do - but its simple economics - supply and demand. The fact is that we all still think its great value for money - otherwise WHL along with every other prem ground would be empty every week and clubs would be idiots not to charge less.

As a Spurs fan, I don't see the problem as long as the ground is full (or almost full) every game - its when we start out-pricing our own fans that we should start worrying, because less support means less success, which means less money in the long-run.

Reply to slugmandrew:

You all act like you can't go and watch football for cheap in the UK? Unfortunately the fact that Tottenham is one of the most successful clubs in the world situated in an extremely affluent area means that our ticket prices along with everything else have gone up because there are so many of us...

Tottenham is an extremely affluent area? Really? As a Manc I don't know the ins and outs of North London, but I know whenever I've had to park round there it looks like a sh1t hole with abandoned cars and mattresses in the roads! Rather live up here with a large garden and nice views ta!

Ginge I have to agree. The area around WHL is what can best be described as a shithole.

Obviously some parts of North London are very nice, pricey & affluent but the surrounds of WHL are not somewhere I would frequent outside of matchdays.

I think the reason Spurs can charge so much for tickets is due to our support. The very fact that the waiting list for a season ticket is about 11,000 people long shows that WHL will nearly always be sold out. Its simple supply & demand.

Look at grounds like Boro's riverside and Wwigan's JJB. Their fans for some reason have never quite taken to the clubs and this results in empty seats, thats why they offer tickets for around £15/20 to get bums on seats. Spurs don't have that problem and can therefore charge what they want.

'its when we start out-pricing our own fans that we should start worrying'

We should start worrying now then. I know a lot of people who can't afford it any more, I'm guessing I'm not the only one.

The ground might be full every week, but it's plain for all to see that a different breed of fan is slowly replacing the old die hards.

Flawless couple of posts. The scouser one, and this riposte of yours, Harry.

Sadly, we only need to look at waiting lists to know if anything, clubs are wondering how much more they can get away with charging, not whether they should be charging less. (Boro, Wigan, and Blackburn perhaps excepted.)

Type of fan isn't relevant. That old die hards are being priced out is of no consequence to the club if there are boy-done-goods on the waiting list ready to replace them.

Reply to TMWNN:

'its when we start out-pricing our own fans that we should start worrying'

We should start worrying now then. I know a lot of people who can't afford it any more, I'm guessing I'm not the only one.

The ground might be full every week, but it's plain for all to see that a...

As long as they're paying the money & they're likely to spend more in the shop etc... The pie days are gone, its prawn sandwich time (although to be fair I've been known to enjoy a bit of corporate hospitality in my time! )

Reply to Ginge1:

Reply to slugmandrew:

You all act like you can't go and watch football for cheap in the UK? Unfortunately the fact that Tottenham is one of the most successful clubs in the world situated in an extremely affluent area means that our ticket prices along with everything else have gone up because there are so many of us...

Tottenham is an extremely affluent area? Really? As a Manc I don't know the ins and outs of North London, but I know whenever I've had to park round there it looks like a sh1t hole with abandoned cars and mattresses in the roads! Rather live up here with a large garden and nice views ta!

I knew someone would pick me up on that - because every Spurs fan lives on Tottenham High Rd don't they?

North London in general I mean - many Spurs fans I think you will find, are middle class(ish), in comparison to a lot of clubs that have a majority of fans who are working class and live a bit closer to the breadline. This is the real change in football - from common man's game to entertainment for the upper classes. In a few years you'll have to wear a suit to get in to WHL and they'll only serve champagne at half-time.

Oh yeah and Ginge I'm sure I could find some lovely bits of Manchester as well as some mattress-littered ones. Yeah, you have to move to Manchester to get a nice garden with a view. Idiot.

Oi! Don't cha be dissing Tottnam alrigh?

As someone that's moved away from Tottenham to live for various reasons, it is admittedly not the most affluent of areas - if you measure affluence by money, big cars, fancy houses etc. But its a very rich area - in diversity, and culture and where I lived particularly neighbourly. If you go during a midweek evening game in November, its not particularly cheerful, specially if its raining, but there are some lovely spots like Bruce Castle Park. Its only small but it had footy, basketball tennis and bowling green and just a peaceful place to enjoy in the summer sunshine.

Just highlights how important spurs is to the area. without the club there, I'm afraid the heart of the area will be ripped out. I hope they do build on or next to whl, its about time the council, govt (for transport links) realised that its essential that the club remains close to its roots.

Trembly

I did notice the last time I was up at WHL that alot of the old buildings surrounding the club were boarded up. I was hoping that the club had bought them in readiness for a new stadium. However, as you so correctly stated TFL are being very stubborn on the transport links required to sustain such a new development (even though they accomodated Arsenal )

Until TFL get their act together and make a decision I get the feeling that the new stadium is in limbo wimbo.

slugmandrew "from common man's game to entertainment for the upper classes"

stuff and nonsense. I class myself a common man although I've done ok in my career. Growing up in Tottenham has engrained something of the reality of the area in my bones. Its more expensive to get in, and I understand this simply as a sign of the times and so enjoy it in whatever way I can. Of course I'd love us fans to be able to get in for cheap, but reality is we can't for various reasons already mentioned. I budget my spend on shirts, and treat myself occasionally to a live match or two a year (if/when I can get tickets for the matches I want to see).

You ask the people that live in the area who they support and the majority will tell you Spurs. Of course you just can't escape glory hunters and undoubtedly you'll find manure fans in the midst. In the same way that Ginge is a yid in Manc land and Jamie is a yid in glazgee. Makes them less a yid than those living in the area? In most cases probably not because they (as have I) had to fight off other misguided fans for the honour of my club and my beliefs (that glory will return to spurs).

Trembly

I'd go as far as to say that my love and passion for Spurs have strengthened since moving away. The fact that papers don't report on the PL up here and of course Glasgow is dominated by the 'Old Firm' means that

The Premier League is built on the flawed notion of constant growth. Hence, the initiative to play the 39th game. Once the market is saturated you must open a new market. It's about continual expansion - which has nothing to do with ecomomics, but everything to do with living out of balance.

If you keep adding to your furniture you will need a bigger house. As further items are added you will need two houses and, eventually, an entire street. Limits are essential and natural. What is not limited will perish. An empire can become so large that its borders become porous. Force is naturally checked by form.

Nothing exists in a vaccuum. The league exists in relationship to everything else. It takes and it gives back. But it takes more than it gives. And the consequences of this unbalanced giving-and-taking are far-reaching. Morality has gone awry and we have lost perspective.

How is it possible we pay footballers vast wages, when those who save lives earn a pittance? It's possible, because Life is a paradox. What is vocational (such as nursing) tends to selflessness. Low wages are accepted (although not necessarily liked) as part of the package, if a calling is involved. Footballers are many things, but selfless they are not.

What is sad is that, despite Life exercising its paradoxical logic on our reality, we accept as normal the skewed values that society at large places on things. We are human beings and we are capable of doing wonders. But we are collectively delusional or, worse, insane.

One such paradox concerns the life-span of footballers, which was always relatively short, so that players had to plan for life after their playing career ended. Now, with the huge sums earned in the top-flight game, there is a disincentive for players to develop themselves - intellectually, emotionally, morally. The lower down the scale you go, the more the incentive re-emerges. Thus, the exemplars of the English game are the least informed and likeable in it.

Reply to TMWNN:

'its when we start out-pricing our own fans that we should start worrying'

We should start worrying now then. I know a lot of people who can't afford it any more, I'm guessing I'm not the only one.

The ground might be full every week, but it's plain for all to see that a...

I think that to say the old type of fan is dying out would be offensive to a lot of Spurs fans I know - just because someone can afford a season ticket means they are not a proper fan these days? The whole country is a much more educated, affluent place compared to say 30 or 40 years ago. Just because we don't have 20,000 lager louts rammed into park lane every week jumping around like a bunch of nutters and then "'aving a row" with the other team's fans after the game doesn't mean they aren't supporting the team.

Reply to jamiespurs:

Trembly

I'd go as far as to say that my love and passion for Spurs have strengthened since moving away. The fact that papers don't report on the PL up here and of course Glasgow is dominated by the 'Old Firm' means that

I have had to become more engrained in whats going on at Spurs. I now watch every game they play on the internet meaning I've never seen so much of them in my life, and I have gone out and bought the shirts so that when and If i choose I can march around Glasgow with pride.

I long to return to WHL as for me there's no better feeling than being there when we score and of course at the end of the game when we've won. However due to geographical circumstances not to mention monetary ones I don't know when that chance will arise.

Hi all

feedback to people concering the area around WHL. It is not as good as some areas of london but Spurs and another property guru have bought up most of the buildings. They are hoping for a big gov grant to do up the area and hence are only giving short leases or leases with get out quick clauses, which are unacceptable to most shop front trade companies.
This means a new ground will not happen until 2012 earliest.
Tottenham is a nice area away from football days (sat pm) but not for me no more, but mancs must of improved a lot to be compared asbetter.

As for Poyet leaving, it could be he is only an transaltor not part of Ramos team so his time at spurs is nearing an end.
With Hughton and Poyet there maybe come jan they will buy Rocha, Ghaly and Gilberto for £15m, they owe us after Jenas,

Talk about not affording a ticket to a game - I can barely afford the price of the electricity to run the laptop.

TFL should not pay for a new spurs stn if spurs are not going to contribute anything substantial.
TFL did not contribute to Arsenal stadium or transport updates, all come from Arsenal fund.

Trembly. "stuff and nonsense." How much is a decent Spurs season ticket these days? About a grand? Are you telling me the average fan can afford one? You have to be earning considerably more than minimum wage to be able to even consider it.

I didn't mean that the regular fans aren't still here, because evidently, here we all are! Just that the game actually has a lot of rich fans these days whereas in the past it was looked down upon as a commoner's game compared to cricket, tennis and rugby for example.

Reply to northern block:

TFL should not pay for a new spurs stn if spurs are not going to contribute anything substantial.
TFL did not contribute to Arsenal stadium or transport updates, all come from Arsenal fund.

Its not about the contribution factor. Its them agreeing to put a station in place. TFL have been umming and aahing about wether or not to improve the links to WHL for around 2-3 years now. I'm pretty sure once they make a decision we'll know more about the a new ground.

Reply to slugmandrew:

Reply to Ginge1:

Reply to slugmandrew:

You all act like you can't go and watch football for cheap in the UK? Unfortunately the fact that Tottenham is one of the most successful clubs in the world situated in an extremely affluent area means that our ticket prices along with everything else have gone up because there are so many of us...

Tottenham is an extremely affluent area? Really? As a Manc I don't know the ins and outs of North London, but I know whenever I've had to park round there it looks like a sh1t hole with abandoned cars and mattresses in the roads! Rather live up here with a large garden and nice views ta!

I knew someone would pick me up on that - because every Spurs fan lives on Tottenham High Rd don't they?

North London in general I mean - many Spurs fans I think you will find, are middle class(ish), in comparison to a lot of clubs that have a majority of fans who are working class and...

You said situated not in the surrounding area. Idiot's a bit harsh! Anyway you London's don't have views, the smog obscure them!

Reply to Trembly:

slugmandrew "from common man's game to entertainment for the upper classes"

stuff and nonsense. I class myself a common man although I've done ok in my career. Growing up in Tottenham has engrained something of the reality of the area in my bones. Its more expensive to get in, and I...

I've even been circumcised!

Reply to jamiespurs:

Trembly

I did notice the last time I was up at WHL that alot of the old buildings surrounding the club were boarded up. I was hoping that the club had bought them in readiness for a new stadium. However, as you so correctly stated TFL are being very stubborn on the transport links...

Good point although i think the Public Transport Infrastructure around WHL is a bit underrated and certainly has had a bit of negative spin put on it to benefit the arguement for a move away and/or delaying any capacity increase - a good old fashioned excuse in my view. Tell the people that the trains are shite and they'll believe you! its in our physce.

BR/Tube Stations within a walking distance are;

Tottenham Hale - Tube/BR
Seven Sisters - Tube/BR
Bruce Grove - BR
Northumberland Park - BR
Silver Street - BR
White Hart Lane - BR
Angel Road -BR

There arent many other grounds that can boast 8 stations within walking distance is there?

Correct me if im wrong of course!

In fact, on the clubwebsite they are always saying what great feedback the supporters are giving to the trains so i think at some point they'll have to get their story straight.

psyche* pardon me

An absolute cracking read and unfortunately so true. Hope your old dear is alright geezer

anyway how do we stop it, boycott and cap players wages, capping the wages will also stop wankers leaving for bigger money and therefore attract players that WANT to play for the club. A Boycott at Spurs would never happen tho as we are all too loyal.

So to conclude, no boycott as loyalty rules and wage cap never gonna happen.

Since having kids my saturdays have changed, instead of meeting up with the lads at Kings Cross, keeping your eye out for the opposing fans in hope there might be a chance to throw some banter whilst dropping in and out of different pubs and then onto clapping the team onto the pitch, they're now desperately crawling through several internet sites, on the continuious look out for a link to watch the game on a fucking PC monitor as I am too priced out of the games, not all but most.

16 years of holding a season ticket and this my first year I am unable to justify going.

I am off to slit my wrists

The following comment is something I read today from a Amercian Basketball commentator talking after being inducted into the hall of fame -

"I've been stealing money talking about a game, getting paid," he said. "That's why it breaks my heart when I see some athletes, chips on their shoulder. Are you serious? Flying charter planes? I don't want to hear about 80 games a year. What other job do you get four months vacation. Are you serious? Making millions if you can't play."

Its the same all over the world!

I've pretty much lost interest in football full-stop, largely down to the money side of it.
I quit playing in a pub style team some 7 years ago (despite only being 26 at the time) and from then it's been downhill all the way.

Having a family does indeed have a huge impact on things, especially if money is a consideration. I was never one for visiting the Lane week in week out, but I would get 6/7 games in each season. Heck, in 1999 I managed to get enough loyalty points to go to the Worthington Cup Final.
Now I'm lucky if I manage one match per season!!
You're looking at £35 minimum for a ticket, then travel on top, so for me it's approx £60. I can buy enough pyjama's for both my kids that will see them through winter for that.

No matter what anyone says about them being the best etc. no player is worth more than £50k PER YEAR, let alone per week.
Let's face facts too - the clubs don't need the fans..... they get their cash from TV, advertising, European competition etc. Look at Bolton, Boro etc. who barely fill stadiums yet are financially sound.

I don't even care whether or not I catch Spurs on TV - and I've been a fan for 21 years. The players don't play for the team or the fans... they play for themselves.

I even deliberately avoided the England v Andorra game on Saturday, chosing to watch a film with the missus. I'll be doing the same on Wednesday night!

The powers that be have lost sight of what has got the clubs to where they are - the fans.

My local team are the MK Dons, and I plan on taking both my son and daughter in the next couple of years. After all, they have tickets for £15, but kids under 7 go free!

On a final note - my grandad played for Man Utd back in the early 50's. He played in front over over 100,000 regularly.... He has no interest now because it's all money!

Reply to Grazza:

Reply to jamiespurs:

Trembly

I did notice the last time I was up at WHL that alot of the old buildings surrounding the club were boarded up. I was hoping that the club had bought them in readiness for a new stadium. However, as you so correctly stated TFL are being very stubborn on the transport links...

Good point although i think the Public Transport Infrastructure around WHL is a bit underrated and certainly has had a bit of negative spin put on it to benefit the arguement for a move away and/or delaying any capacity increase - a good old fashioned excuse in my view. Tell the people that the...

Well said.

The absolute self absorbed cobblers people come out with in relation to so the so called transport crisis at WHL makes me weep.

These are the same idoits that sit one person per car nose to nose in tarffic 15 hours a week.

These are the same people who drive to a supermarket for a pint of milk past corner shops.

The same people who tell you proudly they haven't been on a bus in 27 years.

Transport crisis?

Warm Heineken and overpriced beigels is a crisis.

tarfic n. a terrific journey on a road where cars appear not to move.

Ginge, maybe it was a bit harsh but so were you beforehand

I have fond memories of going to lane with my uncle as a kid 8 or 9 times a season, but in recent years I simply cant afford the cost of going that many times a year at the moment its down 2 at most last season it was once

So, you think life is bowl of peach schnapps for those of us who can afford tickets?

With all the absconding football whingers now taking up golf, I can barely get in a proper round of 18 holes on Saturday mornings and get to the stadium club in time to let a good bottle of claret breathe properly before a pre-game lunch. Never mind getting a choice table where one can properly see and be seen.

And once you do have a set of season tickets - well, a half dozen in my case - you have to start choosing which weekends you plan to miss going to the cottage and then sort out who gets the tickets the weekends you do get away. Which can cause all sorts of headaches making sure no one important is overlooked. It's like juggling pianos.

And for those who want to skive off work mid-week to support Spurs away in Prague, try running a business with a load of these types slashing productivity on a regular basis. I have to make sure I hire fans from more than one team or the whole place might come to a slamming halt for Euro quarter final.

Nowadays, I have to hire IT specialists to install computer network monitoring systems so I can find out who's on HH when they should be working. Imagine my chagrin when I caught one of these specialists posting onto an ar5ena1 site.

Yes, the game's causing all sorts of problems. Just thought I'd add my voice to the chorus of 'little people' and speak up for us Big Guys.

Reply to HarryHotspur:

Reply to Grazza:

Reply to jamiespurs:

Trembly

I did notice the last time I was up at WHL that alot of the old buildings surrounding the club were boarded up. I was hoping that the club had bought them in readiness for a new stadium. However, as you so correctly stated TFL are being very stubborn on the transport links...

Good point although i think the Public Transport Infrastructure around WHL is a bit underrated and certainly has had a bit of negative spin put on it to benefit the arguement for a move away and/or delaying any capacity increase - a good old fashioned excuse in my view. Tell the people that the...

Well said.

The absolute self absorbed cobblers people come out with in relation to so the so called transport crisis at WHL makes me weep.

These are the same idoits that sit one person per car nose to nose in tarffic 15 hours a week.

These are the same...

in Porsche Cayenne Turbos of course.

a great article.i'd give it another 5 to 10 years or so 'till the bubble bursts and clubs realise the mess they have made of the soccer boom

On this topic of everything costing too much, I've just bought four tickets for games at White Hart Lane for me and some of my mates, and paid an £8.60 booking fee. Plus £1 for postage. Don't the tickets cost enough on their own without adding that to the price?

One of the best article's I've read for a long time. It captures how many fans feel obout their beloved game.

Living about 100 miles away from WHL, I now have to restrict myself to just one or two visit a season with my son. The round trip with tickets, travel, food & drink costs around £200 now just for the 2 of us to watch one game.

I've now become an armchair / online Spurs fan, something I would never have contimplated just a few short years ago, but I am still as passionate about our club as I always have been.

Thinking back to my first trip to WHL in the early 70's, the entrance fee to stand on the shelf was about 40 pence and you had to start queueing about 1.30 to get a decent spot in the middle.

However, I still get my fix of live games by watching my local non-league team, Winchester City, play in the Southern League. Games kick off at 3pm on a Saturday (remember those days!), entrance is £7 for an adult, great beer, great food, knowledgeable supporters from both teams. You can chat to the players, managers, referees etc and they are all normal blokes with day jobs like you and me (well as normal as a referee can be).

I would urge anyone who wants to watch a bit of good, honest, live football, without spending too much hard earned money to try it.

If you're not sure where or who your local non league team is, check out this site.

LINK

COYS

From the daily mail website today:

Dos Santos said: 'There were offers from Chelsea and Manchester United as well as an offer from Inter. But to me it seemed they are all on the same level as Barcelona.

'That is not to say they are bigger clubs than Tottenham, just that the situation with them is the same as it is at Barca - lots of big stars who would have made it much more difficult for me to play.

Another cracking spurs signing.

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