Why Garth, why? And other questions...
Tuesday, 20 November 07, 05:16 PM
With the end of the Euro 2008 qualifiers in sight, many people are finishing up with some very important questions on their mind. While the problems of Ireland and Wales are well worn topics, so I
won’t go into them here (most of them rhyme with ‘banager’ though) there’s a few issues that are left outstanding now that – for the most part – the participants in world football’s second biggest
showcase have been decided.
Here’s a rundown…
Should they stay or should they go?
While it’s fairly obvious that many of the men who have led sides to unsuccessful campaigns will lose their jobs, there’s a few that have fate in their own hands. Marco van Basten for one has led Holland to the championships after a rough start to the campaign.
However, with Chelsea supposedly sniffing around and with his old team-mates Carlo Ancelloti and Frank Rijkaard looking shaky in their current jobs, he could yet jump ship prior to next June. There is also the suspicion that the Dutch will be far less than the sum of their parts next year, as was the case in the last World Cup. The fact that many of the players would happily see their national coach head off may also point towards an early exit for Marco Goalo.
Slaven Bilic too has said that he would like to manage in England and the poker-faced Croatian could well make a move to a decent Premier League side in the coming months. With Alan Curbishley continuing to provide plenty of bills but little answers for West Ham could the former Hammer, Bilic end up at Upton Park? Personally I hope so; the guy always talks with intelligence and likes to play good football, just what the league needs. The new Luca Vialli perhaps.
Check their heads
Scotland. Ah, poor old Scotland. Nearly there, not quite, within a whisper… say it whichever way you want but they didn’t make it. While their achievements in their group no doubt deserved more (any country would struggle to qualify from their group ahead of Italy and France); football is cruel and Scotland won’t have a competitive game for the guts of a year. Will their players be able to get themselves up for another mammoth campaign? A lot, obviously, depends on the draw for the World Cup qualifiers but consider these two questions:
(a) Their start striker McFadden has been playing well above himself, can he continue to do this at a high level? And…
(b) Can they overcome their inability to beat middling Eastern European sides away from home? The victory away to France was amazing, but victories against the Ukraine and Georgia would, most likely, have seen them through. Games like this will almost certainly feature in the next qualifying series.
All in all, these aren’t massive challenges, but the assumption they will qualify for the next major tournament is something that might come back and bite them on the arse next time around.
Major tournament England
Will the lessons be learned from the World Cup? Will the hype die down? Will the players play down their chances? Will McClaren be brave enough to drop Beckham for a second time? Will be brave enough to separate Gerrard and Lampard in a major tournament game? I’m guessing… no, no, no, no and just for a change eh… no.
There will be a lot of water under the bridge and no doubt plenty of broken metatarsals in the headlines before England head out to the tournament but you suspect that come next June it’ll be the same damn story. They have some decent players and let’s hope that now it looks like they’ll get there they play some decent football as, though I hate myself for it, I always end up watching their games.
Coverage c**ts
Will the BBC and ITV provide decent, un-biased and interesting coverage? With not a hint of Jonathan Pearce and Clive Tyldesley to be found anywhere? Will they bollocks.
“And now over to pitchside where everyone is shifting nervously next to our man on the inside, Garth Crooks.”
“Slurp…thanks Gary.”
Some things never change: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cugYQ35vtvQ
Later, JJ
Okey Doke Football Podcast is available every Friday morning, subscribe here
http://feeds.feedburner.com/OkeyDokeFootball
Here’s a rundown…
Should they stay or should they go?
While it’s fairly obvious that many of the men who have led sides to unsuccessful campaigns will lose their jobs, there’s a few that have fate in their own hands. Marco van Basten for one has led Holland to the championships after a rough start to the campaign.
However, with Chelsea supposedly sniffing around and with his old team-mates Carlo Ancelloti and Frank Rijkaard looking shaky in their current jobs, he could yet jump ship prior to next June. There is also the suspicion that the Dutch will be far less than the sum of their parts next year, as was the case in the last World Cup. The fact that many of the players would happily see their national coach head off may also point towards an early exit for Marco Goalo.
Slaven Bilic too has said that he would like to manage in England and the poker-faced Croatian could well make a move to a decent Premier League side in the coming months. With Alan Curbishley continuing to provide plenty of bills but little answers for West Ham could the former Hammer, Bilic end up at Upton Park? Personally I hope so; the guy always talks with intelligence and likes to play good football, just what the league needs. The new Luca Vialli perhaps.
Check their heads
Scotland. Ah, poor old Scotland. Nearly there, not quite, within a whisper… say it whichever way you want but they didn’t make it. While their achievements in their group no doubt deserved more (any country would struggle to qualify from their group ahead of Italy and France); football is cruel and Scotland won’t have a competitive game for the guts of a year. Will their players be able to get themselves up for another mammoth campaign? A lot, obviously, depends on the draw for the World Cup qualifiers but consider these two questions:
(a) Their start striker McFadden has been playing well above himself, can he continue to do this at a high level? And…
(b) Can they overcome their inability to beat middling Eastern European sides away from home? The victory away to France was amazing, but victories against the Ukraine and Georgia would, most likely, have seen them through. Games like this will almost certainly feature in the next qualifying series.
All in all, these aren’t massive challenges, but the assumption they will qualify for the next major tournament is something that might come back and bite them on the arse next time around.
Major tournament England
Will the lessons be learned from the World Cup? Will the hype die down? Will the players play down their chances? Will McClaren be brave enough to drop Beckham for a second time? Will be brave enough to separate Gerrard and Lampard in a major tournament game? I’m guessing… no, no, no, no and just for a change eh… no.
There will be a lot of water under the bridge and no doubt plenty of broken metatarsals in the headlines before England head out to the tournament but you suspect that come next June it’ll be the same damn story. They have some decent players and let’s hope that now it looks like they’ll get there they play some decent football as, though I hate myself for it, I always end up watching their games.
Coverage c**ts
Will the BBC and ITV provide decent, un-biased and interesting coverage? With not a hint of Jonathan Pearce and Clive Tyldesley to be found anywhere? Will they bollocks.
“And now over to pitchside where everyone is shifting nervously next to our man on the inside, Garth Crooks.”
“Slurp…thanks Gary.”
Some things never change: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cugYQ35vtvQ
Later, JJ
Okey Doke Football Podcast is available every Friday morning, subscribe here
http://feeds.feedburner.com/OkeyDokeFootball
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Quota load of old rubbish
Wednesday, 14 November 07, 03:06 PM
I know the issue of quotas is being looked at by most football sites today due to Steve Coppell and Gordon Brown sticking their respective oars into the issue. Alex Ferguson’s comments on the
matter have also raised eyebrows (though his interest is in sticking it to Arsenal rather than the ‘health of the game’). But, aside from the questions over European employment laws and the
development of the game in England, I thought I’d point out that the issue has always been a load of cobblers and is barely worthy of the discussion it’s currently getting.
English players, with the exception of a few decent stars in amongst the mire, have always been poor. A spark of gold in a pile of shite as Paul Calf (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcVDPDRKrt0) once said.
Think back to Liverpool’s win over AC Milan in Istanbul. Number of English players in the side – two; Gerrard and Carragher. Think back even further to Liverpool’s 1984 European Cup winning side (the last of seven wins in eight years for English sides) and the team was as follows: Grobbelaar, Neal, Kennedy, Lawrenson, Whelan, Hansen, Dalglish (Robinson), Lee, Rush, Johnston (Nicol), Souness. So that’s three Englishmen including the subs. Okay there’s more Frenchman than Scots in the modern European Cup winners but still very few English, and let’s not forget it’s only England that are bringing up this issue. The Scots are doing just fine… well until Saturday anyway.
Arsenal got to the 2006 final with only a half-fit Ashley Cole and Sol Campbell in their side. Yet despite their loss, when coupled with Liverpool’s victory the year before this laid many of the foundations for the idea of the ‘Golden Generation’ of English football that would win the 2006 World Cup. Five horrendous games later, the state of the English game looked a lot less healthy.
The Manchester United side of 1999 was far more representative in regards to English players – the Nevilles, Butt, Beckham, Cole and of course Scholes who would have been in there too had he not been suspended. Yet, after their triumph, 12 months later many of those players formed the core of an English side that went out in the group stages of Euro 2000. Spain didn’t last long in that tournament either, despite Real Madrid picking up the European Cup only six weeks earlier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0CPIMH2t9s).
English sides dominated Europe in the mid-to-late seventies and early eighties yet the national side failed to qualify for two World Cups (74 and 78) and went out timidly in 1982 when they actually did make it to Spain.
In fact, there is very little to suggest that a nation’s success at club level – be it with home-grown players or foreigners – leads on to success at international level. Did Italy win anything in the late eighties or early nineties when their sides were dominating in Europe? Nope. Have Spanish national sides ever done anything at the highest level despite Real Madrid’s (and to a certain extent Barcelona’s) record in European competition? Nope.
Both the Italian and Spanish leagues have aspired to be the greatest league in the world over the last 20 years and both understood that this involved bringing in the world’s top talent. When Italy went out of the 1990 World Cup in the semi finals, they didn’t moan that they would have won the tournament had three Italians played for AC Milan instead of Gullit, Rijkaard and van Basten (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O2nEZAb_Mk). They just accepted they were unlucky and moved on.
There was no attempt to block George Weah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo8PS4XSCyk), Paul Gascoigne et al entering the Italy afterwards. Serie A was the best league in the world so it wanted the best players, therefore if the Premier League aspires to the same position they should continue getting top players by having an open system. In the long run, the policy of importing foreign talent has hardly done the Italian national side any harm now has it? What with that whole World Cup win and that.
Finally, no amount of foreign players should be blamed for a bunch of pompous ghost-writer hookers failing to beat Macedonia at home. England players and their coaching staff (well despite their coaching staff perhaps) have the talent to reach the European Championships and have no one to blame but themselves. What can be done about the malaise in their international team? How about organising their inflated egos into a vaguely coherent side and beating the other teams in a decidedly easy group. That ought to do it.
But with England’s football team, it’s always somebody else’s fault isn’t it. Damn Johnny Foreigner.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t forget to sign Mark’s ‘Keep Houllier Away’ petition (not poll as I said the other day like a damned fool). This French gimp must be stopped.
http://www.petitiononline.com/jxz81c/petition.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here’s my choice for the job… and the dog that’s barking… that’s not his dog: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iaNlobvJMY
Later - JJ
English players, with the exception of a few decent stars in amongst the mire, have always been poor. A spark of gold in a pile of shite as Paul Calf (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcVDPDRKrt0) once said.
Think back to Liverpool’s win over AC Milan in Istanbul. Number of English players in the side – two; Gerrard and Carragher. Think back even further to Liverpool’s 1984 European Cup winning side (the last of seven wins in eight years for English sides) and the team was as follows: Grobbelaar, Neal, Kennedy, Lawrenson, Whelan, Hansen, Dalglish (Robinson), Lee, Rush, Johnston (Nicol), Souness. So that’s three Englishmen including the subs. Okay there’s more Frenchman than Scots in the modern European Cup winners but still very few English, and let’s not forget it’s only England that are bringing up this issue. The Scots are doing just fine… well until Saturday anyway.
Arsenal got to the 2006 final with only a half-fit Ashley Cole and Sol Campbell in their side. Yet despite their loss, when coupled with Liverpool’s victory the year before this laid many of the foundations for the idea of the ‘Golden Generation’ of English football that would win the 2006 World Cup. Five horrendous games later, the state of the English game looked a lot less healthy.
The Manchester United side of 1999 was far more representative in regards to English players – the Nevilles, Butt, Beckham, Cole and of course Scholes who would have been in there too had he not been suspended. Yet, after their triumph, 12 months later many of those players formed the core of an English side that went out in the group stages of Euro 2000. Spain didn’t last long in that tournament either, despite Real Madrid picking up the European Cup only six weeks earlier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0CPIMH2t9s).
English sides dominated Europe in the mid-to-late seventies and early eighties yet the national side failed to qualify for two World Cups (74 and 78) and went out timidly in 1982 when they actually did make it to Spain.
In fact, there is very little to suggest that a nation’s success at club level – be it with home-grown players or foreigners – leads on to success at international level. Did Italy win anything in the late eighties or early nineties when their sides were dominating in Europe? Nope. Have Spanish national sides ever done anything at the highest level despite Real Madrid’s (and to a certain extent Barcelona’s) record in European competition? Nope.
Both the Italian and Spanish leagues have aspired to be the greatest league in the world over the last 20 years and both understood that this involved bringing in the world’s top talent. When Italy went out of the 1990 World Cup in the semi finals, they didn’t moan that they would have won the tournament had three Italians played for AC Milan instead of Gullit, Rijkaard and van Basten (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O2nEZAb_Mk). They just accepted they were unlucky and moved on.
There was no attempt to block George Weah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo8PS4XSCyk), Paul Gascoigne et al entering the Italy afterwards. Serie A was the best league in the world so it wanted the best players, therefore if the Premier League aspires to the same position they should continue getting top players by having an open system. In the long run, the policy of importing foreign talent has hardly done the Italian national side any harm now has it? What with that whole World Cup win and that.
Finally, no amount of foreign players should be blamed for a bunch of pompous ghost-writer hookers failing to beat Macedonia at home. England players and their coaching staff (well despite their coaching staff perhaps) have the talent to reach the European Championships and have no one to blame but themselves. What can be done about the malaise in their international team? How about organising their inflated egos into a vaguely coherent side and beating the other teams in a decidedly easy group. That ought to do it.
But with England’s football team, it’s always somebody else’s fault isn’t it. Damn Johnny Foreigner.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t forget to sign Mark’s ‘Keep Houllier Away’ petition (not poll as I said the other day like a damned fool). This French gimp must be stopped.
http://www.petitiononline.com/jxz81c/petition.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here’s my choice for the job… and the dog that’s barking… that’s not his dog: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iaNlobvJMY
Later - JJ
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Oh woe is… everybody
Thursday, 18 October 07, 10:36 AM
Well… that was interesting. So, in the past 24 hours we had England’s capitulation, Scotland losing to some schoolkids in Eastern Europe and Ireland serving up their worst performance in… well about
a year, or less than that actually. But it was bad, really, really bad. We even had Wales getting a ‘professional’ 2-1 away victory in San Marino and Northern Ireland continuing to pick up the slack
with a great result in Sweden.
First the Scots though, and Gordon McQueen cut a sad figure on Sky Sports News as he relayed Scotland’s plight out in Georgia (though obviously not as sad a figure as someone like me who was actually watching Gordon McQueen look glumly at a TV screen). Shorn of several first team regulars they lost in a place where in any other qualification campaign since 1998, it might have just been seen as another embarrassing blip. This time though, it mattered.
Scotland however, still have everything in their own hands and should they have a full compliment against Italy next month they have a chance. One game, win and your through. Would they have taken that at the start of the campaign? Well actually no, that would be insane, they’d prefer to qualify much earlier but it’s the question posed at this time by most pundits so I thought I’d throw it in there.
England. Ah England. One offside goal for good old Blighty. One dodgy penalty for the nasty Russians. Then one legal goal for them too. So that’s eh… little to complain about. After the penalty they crawled into their shells with only one half-chance, whereas smarter passing from the Russians on the break could have seen them win by one or two more. The end for McClaren? Well Israel might do them a favour but most likely not. In other news, Jamie Redknapp showed up with the biggest black scarf in the world. Triffik fella Jamie. Triffik.
First the Scots though, and Gordon McQueen cut a sad figure on Sky Sports News as he relayed Scotland’s plight out in Georgia (though obviously not as sad a figure as someone like me who was actually watching Gordon McQueen look glumly at a TV screen). Shorn of several first team regulars they lost in a place where in any other qualification campaign since 1998, it might have just been seen as another embarrassing blip. This time though, it mattered.
Scotland however, still have everything in their own hands and should they have a full compliment against Italy next month they have a chance. One game, win and your through. Would they have taken that at the start of the campaign? Well actually no, that would be insane, they’d prefer to qualify much earlier but it’s the question posed at this time by most pundits so I thought I’d throw it in there.
England. Ah England. One offside goal for good old Blighty. One dodgy penalty for the nasty Russians. Then one legal goal for them too. So that’s eh… little to complain about. After the penalty they crawled into their shells with only one half-chance, whereas smarter passing from the Russians on the break could have seen them win by one or two more. The end for McClaren? Well Israel might do them a favour but most likely not. In other news, Jamie Redknapp showed up with the biggest black scarf in the world. Triffik fella Jamie. Triffik.
Ireland. Ah Ireland. Well there’s not much else to say is there Stan? When 16,000 people who have bought tickets choose to stay at home instead of visiting one of the finest stadiums in Europe it
says a lot really. As does being booed off at half-time and full-time. As does being personally heckled when leaving the field while being ushered down the tunnel under the protective arm of the
kitman. That’s what you’ve sunk to Stan, a nice oul fella like Mick Byrne pleading to leave your poor soul alone. Go. Go now. You have to know it makes sense. Unlike Joey O’Brien in midfield.
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Pitch Battle
Monday, 15 October 07, 04:04 PM
The last time I remember a plastic pitch being a big issue was the week after Kenny Dalglish resigned his position as Liverpool manager in February 1991. Ronnie Moran – the number two at the time
and the man who should have got the top job over Graeme bloody Souness – took his side to play Luton Town at Kenilworth Road.
The Hatters’ plastic pitch, which has since been dug up with pieces being sold off in the club shop, was said to have been the last thing the players wanted to face after the traumatic week and the Pool went down three-one. As history testifies since, they would continue that downward spiral for some time.
Now, I’m not blaming the plastic pitch for sixteen years of hurt (punctuated by some damn decent cup wins) but it was just one of the first things that came to mind when thinking about Wednesday’s do-or-die game between England and Russia. The game has everything already – winner pretty much takes all, one manager starting to look competent, one manager saying he could have had the other one’s job but he didn’t fancy it, injuries to key players, Michael Owen bound to break a leg and Fat Frank being shot down by his own fans.
But let’s not forget the key element. Not the plastic pitch itself. But the excuse it gives England – and particularly its media outlets – to point to for generations. I’ll make no secret of it, I want Russia to win this game and want England nowhere near next year’s tournament. If they lose, they’ll have “that damned plastic monstrosity” to pin defeat on when, of course, they will only have themselves to blame. Steve McClaren may say the pitch is “no excuse for failure” now, but that could change come Thursday morning.
In the past it’s been Rooney’s red card; or a bobble on the penalty spot; a Ronaldhino free kick that wasn’t meant to go in; a disallowed goal against the Argies; the Hand of God and much more. Examine any of these excuses carefully though and whether you come up with Alan Shearer’s elbow or Gary Lineker missing an open goal, there’s generally a far more sane explanation as to why England haven’t won a tournament in over forty years. Should they lose on Wednesday, in ten years will people point to a dire display against Macedonia as the reason they didn’t qualify? Nah, “it were the plastic pitch mate”.
I know, I know, not all English fans are like that. Of course I realise that lads, but Tommy Lee Jones summed things up well in that, on reflection, atrocious movie ‘Men in Black’ while talking to Will Smith’s character, Jay.
Jay: People are smart, they can handle it.
TLJ: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.
That’s kinda how I feel about England fans en masse, and while this most likely holds true for Irish people too (what with the whole alcoholism malarkey and that), we’re talking about England’s problems here, Ireland’s problems deserve a few books and a short movie entitled: F.A.I. – W.H.Y.
I’d like to go to next year’s finals and I think I’d enjoy it a lot more with the bulk of England’s support staying back in blighty without a team to support… plus getting to see John Terry cry so early in the season would be a real bonus. Go Rooskies!
The Hatters’ plastic pitch, which has since been dug up with pieces being sold off in the club shop, was said to have been the last thing the players wanted to face after the traumatic week and the Pool went down three-one. As history testifies since, they would continue that downward spiral for some time.
Now, I’m not blaming the plastic pitch for sixteen years of hurt (punctuated by some damn decent cup wins) but it was just one of the first things that came to mind when thinking about Wednesday’s do-or-die game between England and Russia. The game has everything already – winner pretty much takes all, one manager starting to look competent, one manager saying he could have had the other one’s job but he didn’t fancy it, injuries to key players, Michael Owen bound to break a leg and Fat Frank being shot down by his own fans.
But let’s not forget the key element. Not the plastic pitch itself. But the excuse it gives England – and particularly its media outlets – to point to for generations. I’ll make no secret of it, I want Russia to win this game and want England nowhere near next year’s tournament. If they lose, they’ll have “that damned plastic monstrosity” to pin defeat on when, of course, they will only have themselves to blame. Steve McClaren may say the pitch is “no excuse for failure” now, but that could change come Thursday morning.
In the past it’s been Rooney’s red card; or a bobble on the penalty spot; a Ronaldhino free kick that wasn’t meant to go in; a disallowed goal against the Argies; the Hand of God and much more. Examine any of these excuses carefully though and whether you come up with Alan Shearer’s elbow or Gary Lineker missing an open goal, there’s generally a far more sane explanation as to why England haven’t won a tournament in over forty years. Should they lose on Wednesday, in ten years will people point to a dire display against Macedonia as the reason they didn’t qualify? Nah, “it were the plastic pitch mate”.
I know, I know, not all English fans are like that. Of course I realise that lads, but Tommy Lee Jones summed things up well in that, on reflection, atrocious movie ‘Men in Black’ while talking to Will Smith’s character, Jay.
Jay: People are smart, they can handle it.
TLJ: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.
That’s kinda how I feel about England fans en masse, and while this most likely holds true for Irish people too (what with the whole alcoholism malarkey and that), we’re talking about England’s problems here, Ireland’s problems deserve a few books and a short movie entitled: F.A.I. – W.H.Y.
I’d like to go to next year’s finals and I think I’d enjoy it a lot more with the bulk of England’s support staying back in blighty without a team to support… plus getting to see John Terry cry so early in the season would be a real bonus. Go Rooskies!
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'Goikoetxea's meaner, Champions, Argentina!!'
Thursday, 11 October 07, 01:40 PM
Hey folks,
JJ here,
As John Terry’s possible injury causes a stir in England (he’s not Iron Man lads, he’s an overrated underling of Ricardo Carvalho), the situation in Dublin is even worse. The hugely average Alex Bruce has been drafted into the squad and Steven Ireland is still busy sorting out his demons while undoubtedly avoiding his hair plugs getting caught in the wind when he’s out and about.
So, to put a little cheer back into proceedings I decided to dig up the lyrics to The Memories Italia ’90 reworking of ‘We Didn’t Start the Fire’ by Billy Joel. We’ve mentioned it on the podcast before but not sure if we’ve stuck up the absolutely immense lyrics in full.
Now, I couldn’t find the link to this on YouTube but I know it’s out there somewhere so any help is appreciated. To make up for the lack of link though here’s the original (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq3PVHVn0kE) and here’s yesterday’s blog star Brian Clough giving his opinion on Mick McCarthy prior to Stuttgart ’88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylou3upPPxc). And fuck it, here’s everyone’s favourite fat Sky Sports News monkey Kenny Sansom impersonating Ronald Reagan amongst others (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CRkiUgCosw).
As for the song, the story goes that Joel like this version so much he learned it for a concert in Dublin during the early nineties. This is most likely absolute rubbish but fuck it I’ll spread the myth anyway… so here goes.
‘We’re Gonna Start a Fire’ (oh to have some of that optimism again)
Jackie Charlton, Eoin Hand
Johnny Giles, Ireland
Mick McCarthy, Stephen Staunton
Cascarino
Tony Galvin, Niall Quinn
Packie doesn't let em in
North of Ireland
South of Ireland
Only one can go
Paul McGrath, Back Four
Aldridge got another score
World Cup
English Clubs
Kevin Moran and the Dubs
European Championship
How can we forget the trip
Andy Townsend, Kevin Sheedy
Stapleton's a supersub
We're gonna start a fire
And when Rome is burning
there'll be no returning
We're gonna start a fire
We have Jack to mind us
and the fans behind us
Butragueño, Hungary
We scared the Dutch in Germany
Charlie Hurley, Liam Tuohy
Opel Invest
Ray Houghton, Liverpool
Ronnie Whelan's so cool
O'Leary in the Sunday World
Con is in the press
Stuttgart was no dream
now we have a winning team
Billy Bingham, Budapest
Man of Magic, Georgie Best
Eamon Dunphy writes it down
Dalymount to Landsdowne
English Football in a mess
Trouble on the Terraces
We're gonna start a fire
And when Rome is burning
there'll be no returning
We're gonna start a fire
We have Jack to mind us
and the fans behind us
Dasayev, Sócrates,
Maradona, Ardiles,
Puskás, Bessonov,
René van de Kerkhof,
Hamilton, Jim Magee,
Saint And Greavsie on TV,
Maradona, Hand of God
Brady should be in the Squad
Chris Morris, score draw
Don Givens, Denis Law,
Eusebio, Junior, Ronnie Whelan Senior
Pelé #10
We'll never see his like again
Goikoetxea's meaner
Champions, Argentina
We're gonna start a fire
And when Rome is burning
there'll be no returning
We're gonna start a fire
We have Jack to mind us
and the fans behind us
Netherlands, Egypt
England got a free trip
Pleaded, Seeded
Because of their supporters
Ruud Gullit might be out
Holland wouldn't have a shout
Hoddle and Waddle
Have they got the bottle?
We have England in the draw
And the Dutch like before
One thing that we're grateful for
We didn't get the Mafia
We're gonna start a fire
And when Rome is burning
there'll be no returning
We're gonna start a fire
We have Jack to mind us
and the fans behind us
Seeded in Sicily
Off the coast of Italy
6 hour boat trip
We can take the hardship
But the fans couldn't care
They can travel anywhere
No one else can match the sound
Our supporters bring around
June 11, English Game
We can do the trick again
Egypt next and then the Dutch
Its the second round for us
When we finally get to Rome
No one will be left at home
Aldridge is about to score
Listen to the Irish Roar
We're gonna start a fire
And when Rome is burning
there'll be no returning
We'll bring the Sam Maguire
We have Jack to mind us
and the fans behind us
JJ here,
As John Terry’s possible injury causes a stir in England (he’s not Iron Man lads, he’s an overrated underling of Ricardo Carvalho), the situation in Dublin is even worse. The hugely average Alex Bruce has been drafted into the squad and Steven Ireland is still busy sorting out his demons while undoubtedly avoiding his hair plugs getting caught in the wind when he’s out and about.
So, to put a little cheer back into proceedings I decided to dig up the lyrics to The Memories Italia ’90 reworking of ‘We Didn’t Start the Fire’ by Billy Joel. We’ve mentioned it on the podcast before but not sure if we’ve stuck up the absolutely immense lyrics in full.
Now, I couldn’t find the link to this on YouTube but I know it’s out there somewhere so any help is appreciated. To make up for the lack of link though here’s the original (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq3PVHVn0kE) and here’s yesterday’s blog star Brian Clough giving his opinion on Mick McCarthy prior to Stuttgart ’88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylou3upPPxc). And fuck it, here’s everyone’s favourite fat Sky Sports News monkey Kenny Sansom impersonating Ronald Reagan amongst others (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CRkiUgCosw).
As for the song, the story goes that Joel like this version so much he learned it for a concert in Dublin during the early nineties. This is most likely absolute rubbish but fuck it I’ll spread the myth anyway… so here goes.
‘We’re Gonna Start a Fire’ (oh to have some of that optimism again)
Jackie Charlton, Eoin Hand
Johnny Giles, Ireland
Mick McCarthy, Stephen Staunton
Cascarino
Tony Galvin, Niall Quinn
Packie doesn't let em in
North of Ireland
South of Ireland
Only one can go
Paul McGrath, Back Four
Aldridge got another score
World Cup
English Clubs
Kevin Moran and the Dubs
European Championship
How can we forget the trip
Andy Townsend, Kevin Sheedy
Stapleton's a supersub
We're gonna start a fire
And when Rome is burning
there'll be no returning
We're gonna start a fire
We have Jack to mind us
and the fans behind us
Butragueño, Hungary
We scared the Dutch in Germany
Charlie Hurley, Liam Tuohy
Opel Invest
Ray Houghton, Liverpool
Ronnie Whelan's so cool
O'Leary in the Sunday World
Con is in the press
Stuttgart was no dream
now we have a winning team
Billy Bingham, Budapest
Man of Magic, Georgie Best
Eamon Dunphy writes it down
Dalymount to Landsdowne
English Football in a mess
Trouble on the Terraces
We're gonna start a fire
And when Rome is burning
there'll be no returning
We're gonna start a fire
We have Jack to mind us
and the fans behind us
Dasayev, Sócrates,
Maradona, Ardiles,
Puskás, Bessonov,
René van de Kerkhof,
Hamilton, Jim Magee,
Saint And Greavsie on TV,
Maradona, Hand of God
Brady should be in the Squad
Chris Morris, score draw
Don Givens, Denis Law,
Eusebio, Junior, Ronnie Whelan Senior
Pelé #10
We'll never see his like again
Goikoetxea's meaner
Champions, Argentina
We're gonna start a fire
And when Rome is burning
there'll be no returning
We're gonna start a fire
We have Jack to mind us
and the fans behind us
Netherlands, Egypt
England got a free trip
Pleaded, Seeded
Because of their supporters
Ruud Gullit might be out
Holland wouldn't have a shout
Hoddle and Waddle
Have they got the bottle?
We have England in the draw
And the Dutch like before
One thing that we're grateful for
We didn't get the Mafia
We're gonna start a fire
And when Rome is burning
there'll be no returning
We're gonna start a fire
We have Jack to mind us
and the fans behind us
Seeded in Sicily
Off the coast of Italy
6 hour boat trip
We can take the hardship
But the fans couldn't care
They can travel anywhere
No one else can match the sound
Our supporters bring around
June 11, English Game
We can do the trick again
Egypt next and then the Dutch
Its the second round for us
When we finally get to Rome
No one will be left at home
Aldridge is about to score
Listen to the Irish Roar
We're gonna start a fire
And when Rome is burning
there'll be no returning
We'll bring the Sam Maguire
We have Jack to mind us
and the fans behind us
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60 days and 60 nights
Tuesday, 09 October 07, 12:50 PM
Among one of the odd consequences of having more analysis of sport than ever, is that occasionally the supporter, it seems, can now be congratulated or blamed for a result. I only say this as in
Ireland at present there’s an awful lot of fan bashing going on in the press and on TV.
In rugby, our supporters are being disowned for not turning up at the airport to welcome home our country’s much maligned squad from the World Cup. Well not all fans, seven kids turned up (the press reports said nothing of their parents, though if they’re not counted as supporters I can only think they stood looking at Paul O’Connell shaking their fists and yelling ‘why I oughta’ until they were removed by security).
Even if Ireland won the World Cup I’d be waiting in town with a pint before the open-top bus comes around my direction rather than heading out through shitloads of traffic to the airport. Is that treason or something? And what’s out there anyway? Large men in suits walking through the arrivals section, that’s what.
The thing is, thousands of supporters went over to France and sang like patriotic drunken idiots for the entirety of games where the team played in a terrible manner unseen for nearly a decade in Irish rugby. But some commentators still defending the side and their manager think that general ill-feeling towards the team since the start of the tournament contributed to their downfall. Rubbish.
Some of these fans were also present in the Czech Republic and Slovakia when Steve Staunton’s men turned in dour, pass-less performances last month. One friend of mine who went to these games as well as the rugby, now claims he’s suffering from an odd form of depression after the whole debacle. Poor git is a Liverpool supporter too.
Yet, if he picked up some Irish papers last week, and no doubt a lot more in the next few days, he’ll be told how he should get behind Ireland again next Saturday against Germany and to feel like traitor should he dare look on the brightside if we lose. That brightside is of course that Stan would be a goner and a new manager – hey why not go crazy and even get a guy with experience this time – could be in place sooner rather than later.
What’s lost in all of this is that the fans have no problem getting behind their country; it’s an in-built thing and they need no reminders. Any ill feeling comes out of frustration that after yet more support, after outlaying yet more of their earnings to follow their team, they are rewarded with the kind of dirge Ireland fans have endured in the last few years.
Liverpool and Celtic fans have been credited with helping their sides to victory in the past. While, no doubt, they have helped, supporters don’t win or lose games. It’s a good topic for pundits but the more intelligent among them (ie Johnny Giles and eh… eh…) tend to dismiss the impact as minimal, and they’re right.
The Emirates has proven a decent hunting ground for Arsenal so far this season where the atmosphere is apparently appalling. Even in the good old days at their former home, the crowd were often referred to as the ‘Highbury Library’. The generally poor support of the Old Trafford crowd is also a well worn topic since Roy Keane’s infamous ‘prawn sandwiches’ outburst some years ago. Although, even I have to admit their rendition of “Ashley Cole’s a Wanker lalalala” is pretty special.
Back to Ireland though and RTE – Ireland’s version of the BBC for those in the UK – have been running ads this week with highlights of USA ’94 and the 2002 World Cup in the Far East, with the tagline “it’s easy to support them in the good times but now they need your support more than ever”. Frankly, shove that sentiment up your collective arse RTE, okay you get the usual bandwagon jumpers at a World Cup but that happens everywhere, even Brazil.
It’s more fun to support in the good times sure, but in my lifetime I’ve witnessed Ireland in four tournaments – Euro 88 and the World Cups of ’90, ’94 and ’02 – and collectively that’s about 60 days in 27 years. Otherwise, generally, it’s been a whole heap of misery, peppered with decent friendly wins and ultimately meaningless ‘moral victories’. I don’t need to be told to support Ireland like some halfwit plastic shamrock waving gobshite. RTE may as well have put an ad out commenting that birthdays tend to be a better laugh than funerals.
Over the weekend Steve Coppell seemed to indicate he may be interested in the Ireland job should it come up. Paul Jewell is said to be sniffing around too. Both of these appointments would be a step up obviously, and let’s be honest here, there’s not a whole heap of options for us to choose from. Put it this way, whenever a newspaper lists the most likely candidates, John Aldridge is still in the frame. If that doesn’t indicate dark times I don’t know what does.
As for Ireland fans, they will turn up at Croke Park next Saturday and support the side, but once the result comes through, if it is anything less than a win, let there be no idiotic tabloid-shouting about the fans being fairweather. We’ve watched plenty of shit down the years with this team, so frankly, fuck the FAI, RTE and assorted column writers if we want something better at this stage.
JJ
In rugby, our supporters are being disowned for not turning up at the airport to welcome home our country’s much maligned squad from the World Cup. Well not all fans, seven kids turned up (the press reports said nothing of their parents, though if they’re not counted as supporters I can only think they stood looking at Paul O’Connell shaking their fists and yelling ‘why I oughta’ until they were removed by security).
Even if Ireland won the World Cup I’d be waiting in town with a pint before the open-top bus comes around my direction rather than heading out through shitloads of traffic to the airport. Is that treason or something? And what’s out there anyway? Large men in suits walking through the arrivals section, that’s what.
The thing is, thousands of supporters went over to France and sang like patriotic drunken idiots for the entirety of games where the team played in a terrible manner unseen for nearly a decade in Irish rugby. But some commentators still defending the side and their manager think that general ill-feeling towards the team since the start of the tournament contributed to their downfall. Rubbish.
Some of these fans were also present in the Czech Republic and Slovakia when Steve Staunton’s men turned in dour, pass-less performances last month. One friend of mine who went to these games as well as the rugby, now claims he’s suffering from an odd form of depression after the whole debacle. Poor git is a Liverpool supporter too.
Yet, if he picked up some Irish papers last week, and no doubt a lot more in the next few days, he’ll be told how he should get behind Ireland again next Saturday against Germany and to feel like traitor should he dare look on the brightside if we lose. That brightside is of course that Stan would be a goner and a new manager – hey why not go crazy and even get a guy with experience this time – could be in place sooner rather than later.
What’s lost in all of this is that the fans have no problem getting behind their country; it’s an in-built thing and they need no reminders. Any ill feeling comes out of frustration that after yet more support, after outlaying yet more of their earnings to follow their team, they are rewarded with the kind of dirge Ireland fans have endured in the last few years.
Liverpool and Celtic fans have been credited with helping their sides to victory in the past. While, no doubt, they have helped, supporters don’t win or lose games. It’s a good topic for pundits but the more intelligent among them (ie Johnny Giles and eh… eh…) tend to dismiss the impact as minimal, and they’re right.
The Emirates has proven a decent hunting ground for Arsenal so far this season where the atmosphere is apparently appalling. Even in the good old days at their former home, the crowd were often referred to as the ‘Highbury Library’. The generally poor support of the Old Trafford crowd is also a well worn topic since Roy Keane’s infamous ‘prawn sandwiches’ outburst some years ago. Although, even I have to admit their rendition of “Ashley Cole’s a Wanker lalalala” is pretty special.
Back to Ireland though and RTE – Ireland’s version of the BBC for those in the UK – have been running ads this week with highlights of USA ’94 and the 2002 World Cup in the Far East, with the tagline “it’s easy to support them in the good times but now they need your support more than ever”. Frankly, shove that sentiment up your collective arse RTE, okay you get the usual bandwagon jumpers at a World Cup but that happens everywhere, even Brazil.
It’s more fun to support in the good times sure, but in my lifetime I’ve witnessed Ireland in four tournaments – Euro 88 and the World Cups of ’90, ’94 and ’02 – and collectively that’s about 60 days in 27 years. Otherwise, generally, it’s been a whole heap of misery, peppered with decent friendly wins and ultimately meaningless ‘moral victories’. I don’t need to be told to support Ireland like some halfwit plastic shamrock waving gobshite. RTE may as well have put an ad out commenting that birthdays tend to be a better laugh than funerals.
Over the weekend Steve Coppell seemed to indicate he may be interested in the Ireland job should it come up. Paul Jewell is said to be sniffing around too. Both of these appointments would be a step up obviously, and let’s be honest here, there’s not a whole heap of options for us to choose from. Put it this way, whenever a newspaper lists the most likely candidates, John Aldridge is still in the frame. If that doesn’t indicate dark times I don’t know what does.
As for Ireland fans, they will turn up at Croke Park next Saturday and support the side, but once the result comes through, if it is anything less than a win, let there be no idiotic tabloid-shouting about the fans being fairweather. We’ve watched plenty of shit down the years with this team, so frankly, fuck the FAI, RTE and assorted column writers if we want something better at this stage.
JJ
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On Dodgy Tattoos and Weekend Preview